aiming poll

[Bob Jewett]

Bob, if I understand correctly you've defined (parallel aiming) out of existence. ..

Not entirely. With some distance and a little elevation, there will be just enough swerve and throw to compensate for the squirt, and parallel aiming will work.

For "parallel" to mean anything, you have to have one line parallel with another. The only two lines I can think of for this are the line joining the centers of the cue ball and ghost ball and the line of the stick at the instant the tip hits the cue ball. I think this method was actually taught by those who did not (and now, do not) know about squirt.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Me:
You can't simply move the whole stick sideways and keep it parallel with the shot line - you'll miss the shot. The whole reason to adjust for squirt is that squirt makes the CB move on a path that's non-parallel with the stick.

Seymore:
Not parallel to the path of the CB, parallel to a center ball hit.

"A center ball hit" before or after correcting for squirt?

If before correcting for squirt, you'll miss the shot, as I said.

If after correcting for squirt, how was the correction done?

pj
chgo

 

[seymore15074]

Patrick Johnson:
You can't simply move the whole stick sideways and keep it parallel with the shot line - you'll miss the shot. The whole reason to adjust for squirt is that squirt makes the CB move on a path that's non-parallel with the stick.

Seymore15074:
Not parallel to the path of the CB, parallel to a center ball hit.

Patrick Johnson:
"A center ball hit" before or after correcting for squirt?

If before correcting for squirt, you'll miss the shot, as I said.

If after correcting for squirt, how was the correction done?

Many things to address here, let me step through them one by one. First, it sounds as if you answered your own question. We both can agree that correcting for squirt will usually be nessasary. I say usually, because depend on speed and elevation, it is possible to make the shot lined up (but not likely).

As to how the correction is made, we are going in circles right back to the beginning of the thread. I don't think there is a way to measure it, it's done subconciously; or by feel. Basically, the easiest way to say it is, "I don't know." (the mentioned response that is often cited by some good shooters that can't even tell how they aim)

I will, however, make an attempt to describe what I personally do. I stand behind the shot, and decide how I'll play the ball. Both speed and english is determined standing up. Then I go down to shoot just looking at the object ball's contact point, and don't think about anything but that spot. Now, the key is to be 100% comitted to the shot, if there are any doubts I have to stand up. If I adjust while I'm down on the ball, I will often end up missing. Once I'm down on the ball and ready to fire, I only think about making that ball. I can just feel how to stroke/strike/hit/push the cue ball to make it hit the contact point. The speed is matched to make the ball. I shoot, and the shot is over.

Does this help any?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I will, however, make an attempt to describe what I personally do.

I wasn't asking how you correct for squirt; I was pointing out that "parallel to a center ball hit" is meaningless unless you specify which "center ball hit" you mean: before or after squirt correction.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

PKM:
...you've already adjusted your aim but the cue is still parallel to center ball as opposed to pivoted

Once you've adjusted your aim for squirt, "parallel to center ball" = pivoted. The only way "parallel to center ball" has any useful meaning is if you mean "parallel to unadjusted center ball". Otherwise it means the same thing as "pivoted" or "adjusted". Of course, the usefulness is only for understanding what's being said - it's not a useful technique for adjusting for squirt.

pj
chgo

 

[Fatboy]

I use the force. I'm a jedi.

is there any other way?

no kidding i dont even understand these systems, i awalys and still do get in action and play my best, and get better, thats the Jedi Force.

 

[chilli66]

I voted for subconscious/feel. I just look at where I think the OB needs to be hit to send it towards the pocket. It usually goes in.

As to the Jedi stuff, if you're kicking off a rail & hitting the OB on the point that is away from you, is that using the Dark Side?

 

[seymore15074]

Once you've adjusted your aim for squirt, "parallel to center ball" = pivoted. The only way "parallel to center ball" has any useful meaning is if you mean "parallel to unadjusted center ball". Otherwise it means the same thing as "pivoted" or "adjusted". Of course, the usefulness is only for understanding what's being said - it's not a useful technique for adjusting for squirt.

Parallel to center ball descibes the cues position to the cues position for a center ball hit. This means that it is not pivoted, such that neither the tip or the butt ends of the cue fall on the line of where the cue would be for a center ball hit.

Call it whatever makes you feel good about it, I'm calling it parallel.

 

[tigerallenyim]

I use the force. I'm a jedi.

oh yeah? I use the Schwartz!

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Parallel to center ball descibes the cues position to the cues position for a center ball hit. This means that it is not pivoted, such that neither the tip or the butt ends of the cue fall on the line of where the cue would be for a center ball hit.

Call it whatever makes you feel good about it, I'm calling it parallel.

You can hit the cue ball in the center aiming at the uncorrected-for-squirt ghost ball or aiming at the corrected-for-squirt ghost ball. One way you miss the shot and the other way you make it. You don't have to make it clear which one you're talking about - if you don't mind being misunderstood by half the people you're talking to.

pj
chgo

 

[PKM]

You can hit the cue ball in the center aiming at the uncorrected-for-squirt ghost ball or aiming at the corrected-for-squirt ghost ball. One way you miss the shot and the other way you make it. You don't have to make it clear which one you're talking about - if you don't mind being misunderstood by half the people you're talking to.

pj
chgo

I'm not sure why there's confusion. Obviously with parallel you've got to adjust your aiming line for the effect of squirt (and any swerve), but I think it's pretty clear which you're using

 

[Cuebacca]

Aiming pole

I believe aiming poles are illegal. You can use your stick but you must keep one hand on it.

P.S. I answered "feel".

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Obviously with parallel you've got to adjust your aiming line for the effect of squirt

It's not obvious to me that that's obvious to everybody.

If your stick ends up in the same place, how is "pivoted" different from "parallel"? Don't just say "how it gets there"; be specific.

pj
chgo

 

[okinawa77]

I never really thought about it until reading Bob's article about back hand english. That's when I realized that whenever I apply side english, I use back hand english. I have no idea how I came upon this technique, as I am self taught. I guess it just came from instinct. I have noticed that when I use extreme english (masse), I tend to use a combination of back hand english, front hand english, and parallel. But on a subconcious level. I don't really know exactly what I do, but I am better than most at masse shots....even though I do not practice it.

Maybe the jedi force is strong within me.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I'm not sure why there's confusion. Obviously with parallel you've got to adjust your aiming line for the effect of squirt (and any swerve), but I think it's pretty clear which you're using

If your object ball is straight up from each of these cue balls, the "parallel adjustment" misses the shot because it doesn't adjust. In both cases the stick must end up like the one on the right (for an OB straight up from the CB) or the shot will miss. Is this obvious to you?

pj
chgo

 

[pdcue]

I don't understand what you mean by parallel. You can't simply move the whole stick sideways and keep it parallel with the shot line - you'll miss the shot. The whole reason to adjust for squirt is that squirt makes the CB move on a path that's non-parallel with the stick.

So you must change the angle of the stick somehow, even if you don't do it by "pivoting". Maybe "parallel" means "adjust consciously but not with BHE or FHE"?

pj
chgo

Since there are no fixed definitions, perhaps 'Parallel' refers to
placing the cue parallel to the non-english-line.

Dale<who uses the put-the-cue-where-it-is-suposed-to-be method>

 

[PKM]

If your object ball is straight up from each of these cue balls, the "parallel adjustment" misses the shot because it doesn't adjust. In both cases the stick must end up like the one on the right (for an OB straight up from the CB) or the shot will miss. Is this obvious to you?

pj
chgo

Yes, it is obvious that if you don't account for squirt you will miss the shot if it is not within the margin of error and not canceled out by swerve. Are you suggesting it is not possible to make a shot using parallel english? The aiming line with both methods will not be the same with the same cue.

In other words, with pivoting you might aim directly for the ghost ball (before pivoting). You clearly cannot do that with parallel, you have to make an adjustment in the direction your cue is pointing but it can be a new parallel line to center CB (again, leaving out swerve effects). The amount of adjustment for squirt would likely be done by "feel," as I don't know of any system that would be of help there.

 

[pdcue]

Many things to address here, let me step through them one by one. First, it sounds as if you answered your own question. We both can agree that correcting for squirt will usually be nessasary. I say usually, because depend on speed and elevation, it is possible to make the shot lined up (but not likely).

As to how the correction is made, we are going in circles right back to the beginning of the thread. I don't think there is a way to measure it, it's done subconciously; or by feel. Basically, the easiest way to say it is, "I don't know." (the mentioned response that is often cited by some good shooters that can't even tell how they aim)

I will, however, make an attempt to describe what I personally do. I stand behind the shot, and decide how I'll play the ball. Both speed and english is determined standing up. Then I go down to shoot just looking at the object ball's contact point, and don't think about anything but that spot. Now, the key is to be 100% comitted to the shot, if there are any doubts I have to stand up. If I adjust while I'm down on the ball, I will often end up missing. Once I'm down on the ball and ready to fire, I only think about making that ball. I can just feel how to stroke/strike/hit/push the cue ball to make it hit the contact point. The speed is matched to make the ball. I shoot, and the shot is over.

Does this help any?

Very good advice.

The part about, once you are down, don't think about anything
but where you are going to hit the OB, and if it doesn't seem right,
stand back up and reset, may be the most important thing you can
teach about playing pool.

You may think this is too obvious to even mention, but I have a good
friend who has managed to avoid doing it for 20 years. Still wonders
why he doesn't play better.

FWIW - I have, at times, been less than eye-to-eye
with see-more in the past. His description explains the approach
that, along with correcting an alignment flaw, changed me from a
weak shotmaker to a minor phenom.

One word about 'feel' - IMHO feel is developed thru hitting
THOUSANDS of shots and paying close attention to what happens.
Practice, practice...as someone once said.

Dale<legend in his own mind>

 

[pdcue]

You can hit the cue ball in the center aiming at the uncorrected-for-squirt ghost ball or aiming at the corrected-for-squirt ghost ball. One way you miss the shot and the other way you make it. You don't have to make it clear which one you're talking about - if you don't mind being misunderstood by half the people you're talking to.

pj
chgo

Where does squirt come from on a center ball hit?
There is no sidewise vector of force<jedi or otherwise>

Dale

 

[Thunderball]

The part about, once you are down, don't think about anything
but where you are going to hit the OB, and if it doesn't seem right,
stand back up and reset, may be the most important thing you can
teach about playing pool.

Im no minor phenom or a major one for that matter....but I've been telling my teammates this for years.Nothing bothers me more then one of my players coming back to the chair after a miss and saying "I knew I was gonna miss that one"
I always reply "Then why'd ya hit it??"

Ya often get what you think you think you are gonna get.Many times its where the feet are that makes the shot "feel"bad.Stand up,readdress and reapproach.Goes a long way imo.

I also try to coach it this way,I tell my guys...."Everytime you miss you should be taken by surprise....if your not,you knew you it was wrong going into the shot."