aiming poll

What aiming system do you use

  • Back Hand English (you pivot your grip hand)

    Votes: 16 9.3%

  • Front Hand English (You pivot your bridge hand)

    Votes: 5 2.9%

  • Parrallel aiming (your whole cue moves left or right)

    Votes: 28 16.3%

  • Other system

    Votes: 22 12.8%

  • Feel / subconscious aiming

    Votes: 101 58.7%
  • Total voters
    172
Patrick Johnson said:
It's not obvious to me that that's obvious to everybody.

If your stick ends up in the same place, how is "pivoted" different from "parallel"? Don't just say "how it gets there"; be specific.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Does your stick end up in the same place?

If player A pivots his cue, and player B moves the entire cue,
orthogonally, the tips of both may coincide, but the cues won't.

BTW - do you put the cue in the non-english line
and then move the cue?

I ask because I have never seen anyone do that<as far as I know>
 
Does your stick end up in the same place?
Click to expand...

There's only one stick alignment that makes the shot for a given amount of sidespin. If "parallel" and "pivot" both work, then they must both end up in the same place. So what's the difference between them?

pj
chgo
 
Where does squirt come from on a center ball hit?
Click to expand...

Obviously there is none. The question is about how you move the stick from center ball to add sidespin, and whether, with "parallel" movement, center ball means before or after adjusting for the squirt that adding sidespin will produce.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
There's only one stick alignment that makes the shot for a given amount of sidespin. If "parallel" and "pivot" both work, then they must both end up in the same place. So what's the difference between them?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
Not true.

unknownpro
 
Patrick Johnson said:
There's only one stick alignment that makes the shot for a given amount of sidespin. If "parallel" and "pivot" both work, then they must both end up in the same place. So what's the difference between them?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

This is simply incorrect.
You might understand it better with a diagram, or
even some physical model<pencils?>

Dale
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Obviously there is none. The question is about how you move the stick from center ball to add sidespin, and whether, with "parallel" movement, center ball means before or after adjusting for the squirt that adding sidespin will produce.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Semantic tapdance.

There is no 'movement' of the cue with the parallel technique.
You put the cue where it needs to be to execute properly.

How many definitions of center ball do you think there are?

BTW - you do know adjustment for sidespin involves more than
just squirt?

Dale<spinner, winner, thinner>
 
Me:
There's only one stick alignment that makes the shot for a given amount of sidespin. If "parallel" and "pivot" both work, then they must both end up in the same place. So what's the difference between them?

unknownpro:
Not true.

pdcue:
This is simply incorrect.
Click to expand...

Boy, I hope this is a semantic difference.

You guys say what you think is true and we can compare.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Boy, I hope this is a semantic difference.

You guys say what you think is true and we can compare.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Which part of 'not true' or 'incorrect' is causing your confusion?

Dale<liner-upper>
 
There is no 'movement' of the cue with the parallel technique.
You put the cue where it needs to be to execute properly.
Click to expand...

Which is precisely the same place you put it by pivoting or by any other successful method. So whatever the "parallel" cue is parallel to, the pivoted cue is parallel to the same thing, because they occupy the same space - they just came by different routes. We know that because we know they have to if they hit the same spot and get the same action.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Which part is incorrect?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

The part where you think pivoting the cue and paralleling
the cue get it to the same place.

even if you get the tip to precisely the same place,
the cue centerline will be in a different orientation
to the center of the CB - SO, the vectors of force acting
angularly to the centerline of the cue<the effect that causes
all the things that result from an off-center hit>will not be
the same, and the results will not be the same.

CB and OB will both go different places.

Dale<the vectorized spinner>
 
Me:
Which part is incorrect?

pdcue:
The part where you think pivoting the cue and paralleling
the cue get it to the same place.

even if you get the tip to precisely the same place,
the cue centerline will be in a different orientation
to the center of the CB - SO, the vectors of force acting
angularly to the centerline of the cue<the effect that causes
all the things that result from an off-center hit>will not be
the same, and the results will not be the same.

CB and OB will both go different places.
Click to expand...

Well, if that's the case, then they're not different ways of adjusting for squirt on the same shot - one of them works and the other doesn't. That's why I've been asking questions about the meaning of "parallel aiming", one of the poll choices for squirt-compensating "aiming systems".

I think the only two ways of compensating for squirt are:

1. pivoting - back hand, front hand, straight or swiping

and

2. estimated aim adjustment - conscious or by feel.

I think "parallel aiming" is probably a version of #2, not a third category.

pj
chgo
 
guys, I talked to wade crane kim davenport and cliff joyner in the last week and they all said quit looking for the miracle cure. there is no aiming system except by feel and touch if you are going to be a champion. I dont know if i quoted them word for word but you get the point
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Well, if that's the case, then they're not different ways of adjusting for squirt on the same shot - one of them works and the other doesn't. That's why I've been asking questions about the meaning of "parallel aiming", one of the poll choices for squirt-compensating "aiming systems".

I think the only two ways of compensating for squirt are:

1. pivoting - back hand, front hand, straight or swiping

and

2. estimated aim adjustment - conscious or by feel.

I think "parallel aiming" is probably a version of #2, not a third category.
pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Now that, I agree with completely. It has been said early in the thread already, though. ;)
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Well, if that's the case, then they're not different ways of adjusting for squirt on the same shot - one of them works and the other doesn't. That's why I've been asking questions about the meaning of "parallel aiming", one of the poll choices for squirt-compensating "aiming systems".

I think the only two ways of compensating for squirt are:

1. pivoting - back hand, front hand, straight or swiping

and

2. estimated aim adjustment - conscious or by feel.

I think "parallel aiming" is probably a version of #2, not a third category.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Pardon me for knowing how to read, but the OP asked about
preference of aiming system<method> - not about adjustment
for squirt.

How did you arive at the conclusion that one of them works,
and one doesn't, and which one doesn't?

Are you implying see-more and I have been lucking in balls for
20 years?

My best guess is that you make an adjustment on the final stroke,
of which you are unaware.

Dale
 
Pardon me for knowing how to read, but the OP asked about
preference of aiming system<method> - not about adjustment
for squirt.
Click to expand...

The first two choices in the poll are Back Hand English and Front Hand English. Those are squirt compensation methods.

How did you arive at the conclusion that one of them works,
and one doesn't, and which one doesn't?
Click to expand...

Well, here's what you said about them:

pdcue [re "pivoting" vs. "paralleling"]:
even if you get the tip to precisely the same place,
the cue centerline will be in a different orientation
to the center of the CB - SO, the vectors of force acting
angularly to the centerline of the cue<the effect that causes
all the things that result from an off-center hit>will not be
the same, and the results will not be the same.

CB and OB will both go different places.
Click to expand...

Same shot, two different methods of squirt compensation (pivot and "parallel"), CB and OB go different places. You tell me - can both be successful?

My best guess is that you make an adjustment on the final stroke,
of which you are unaware.
Click to expand...

My best guess is that you've lost track of the conversation. This has never been about how I adjust for squirt. I've just been trying to figure out what others think "parallel" means - what they think is parallel to what. What do you think is meant by it?

pj
chgo
 
Last edited:
Patrick Johnson said:
Boy, I hope this is a semantic difference.

You guys say what you think is true and we can compare.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
You can hit higher or lower on the cueball and still get the same amount of sidespin by adjusting horizontally at the same time. Your aim line should be nowhere near the same and you get the same spin and still make the shot. Speed may need to change also.

unknownpro
 
I think patrick is right. Using the same cue, stroked with the same speed, and the same offset to center of cue ball, there is only one direction the cue can be traveling at the time of impact to hit an exact point of contact on the object ball. How you arrive at that direction can vary but a to hit the point of contact the cue is in the same exact position wether you pivot or guess.
 
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