Aiming System Or Not?

[BC21]

I've noticed that quite a few posts here mention kicking or banking systems. Sharivari's latest video is actually about a banking system. I think it's funny that there are players who appreciate and see the logical benefits of good kicking and banking systems, but that same logic isn't applied to good aiming systems.

Kicking and banking systems are used often because we typically don't shoot kicks or banks enough to develop a good eye for those shots. They simply don't come up often enough to use that good ol trial and error method of learning. Sure, for those of who've played consistently for years, we have a pretty good knowledge of most kicks and banks, and the systems are only used occassionally. But for players with less experience, those systems are used quite often, or at least they should be used often, because they help program the mind for what would otherwise require a lot more table time.

Practicing and using a good system trains your mind quicker than strictly relying on trial and error methods of learning. And this applies to learning how to aim cut shots just as well as it does to learning kicks and banks.

 

[MattPoland]

what's yours? Got a link?

I use contact-to-contact aiming paired with parallel-lines and equal overlap.

Aiming System Or Not?

I've always had the feeling that this topic divides people the most. So I finally made a video about it. Keep in mind, that this is my personal opinion and that it worked for me. I am also convinced, that this approach is going to work for a lot of other players, that's why I've shared it. Side...

forums.azbilliards.com

 

[BC21]

Wow, no aiming system shooters outnumber the systemers by 2-1.

Yeah, but that's a bit misleading.

Sharivari stated that he started out with ghostball, probably just like 90% of us did. But then after a while, after you finally begin to recognize most shots, you begin to tweak or fine tune your aquired aiming skills to account for position play.

Aiming becomes more of a subconscious process. So when asked, "Do you use an aiming system?", we are more likely to say no, despite the fact that one system or another is likely the root of our aiming skills.

But since that root now lies deep within the folds of the mind, we tend to say, "No, I don't use any system. I just align my body and shoot the shot according to what I see." Lol

 

[Maniac]

I am going to comment here one time and then bow out.

It shouldn't be called an "aiming system" for semi-to-experienced players, it should be called a "tweaking system". If you've played any amount of pool seriously for a good amount of time, then you know where to make the cue ball hit the object ball to direct the object ball to your intended path.

There is not one soul on this forum that gets down and is immediately perfect on the shot without a bit (or a lot) of tweaking. Thus........"tweaking system".

Just sayin'. Maniac, over and out.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Yeah, but that's a bit misleading.

Sharivari stated that he started out with ghostball, probably just like 90% of us did. But then after a while, after you finally begin to recognize most shots, you begin to tweak or fine tune your aquired aiming skills to account for position play.

Aiming becomes more of a subconscious process. So when asked, "Do you use an aiming system?", we are more likely to say no, despite the fact that one system or another is likely the root of our aiming skills.

But since that root now lies deep within the folds of the mind, we tend to say, "No, I don't use any system. I just align my body and shoot the shot according to what I see." Lol

Yeah, aligning becomes a second nature due to experience .
If the shot is a quarter ball hit, you're not going to line up to the center of the object ball .

And, I think , MOST players never even know ghost ball per se .
They just VISUALIZE where the cue ball has to be to pocket the ob .
Or just visualize the angle of approach .
And that gets fine tuned or developed by experience too .

 

[JB Cases]

I use contact-to-contact aiming paired with parallel-lines and equal overlap.

Aiming System Or Not?

I've always had the feeling that this topic divides people the most. So I finally made a video about it. Keep in mind, that this is my personal opinion and that it worked for me. I am also convinced, that this approach is going to work for a lot of other players, that's why I've shared it. Side...

forums.azbilliards.com

So equal opposite? Aiming by the numbers? Both of those are what you are describing I think.

 

[BC21]

Practicing and using a good system trains your mind quicker than strictly relying on trial and error methods of learning. And this applies to learning how to aim cut shots just as well as it does to learning kicks and banks.

I should add that determining whether or not a system is "good" is 100% subjective. It is player-dependent. With that said, traditional trial and error aiming methods have always worked. Given enough table time, the player eventually becomes consistent. So, in my opinion, a "good" aiming system is one that can reduce the amount of table time needed to develop that same consistency.

 

[JB Cases]

I am going to comment here one time and then bow out.

It shouldn't be called an "aiming system" for semi-to-experienced players, it should be called a "tweaking system". If you've played any amount of pool seriously for a good amount of time, then you know where to make the cue ball hit the object ball to direct the object ball to your intended path.

There is not one soul on this forum that gets down and is immediately perfect on the shot without a bit (or a lot) of tweaking. Thus........"tweaking system".

Just sayin'. Maniac, over and out.

Fully disagree. There are plenty of people on this forum who can get sight/aim the shot while standing and drop in with no tweaking needed or done for the majority of shots they take.

 

[Cuedup]

So they can close their eyes before dropping down to shoot?

Impressive.

 

[JB Cases]

So they can close their eyes before dropping down to shoot?

Impressive.

I guess this is addressed to my last comment? No, they can aim while standing up and drop into the shot line and make no further aiming adjustments before shooting. I would also posit that most people do this even when they have aimed incorrectly. Many instructors and others teach to commit to the shot UNLESS something doesn't feel right when you're down and you're told to stand up and start over until you feel right when down.

 

[MattPoland]

So equal opposite? Aiming by the numbers? Both of those are what you are describing I think.

It’s all visual alignment stuff. No real numbers.

I elaborated on it prior here:

Understanding Aiming as a Shot Picture

Been away from the game for a while. I pursued other interests and widened my experience. One activity that I took up was traditional archery. I had some very knowledgable and gracious teachers and friends help me develop my shooting skills. I have managed to win multiple archery tournaments and...

forums.azbilliards.com

The equivalent Dr Dave link would be this but I find that page to be more confusing than illustrative:

Contact-Point-to-Contact-Point and Parallel-Lines Aiming Systems - Dr. Dave Pool Info

Answers to frequently-asked questions about the contact-point-to-contact-point and parallel-lines aiming systems.

billiards.colostate.edu

 

[gerryf]

It’s all visual alignment stuff. No real numbers.

I elaborated on it prior here:

Understanding Aiming as a Shot Picture

Been away from the game for a while. I pursued other interests and widened my experience. One activity that I took up was traditional archery. I had some very knowledgable and gracious teachers and friends help me develop my shooting skills. I have managed to win multiple archery tournaments and...

forums.azbilliards.com

The equivalent Dr Dave link would be this but I find that page to be more confusing than illustrative:

Contact-Point-to-Contact-Point and Parallel-Lines Aiming Systems - Dr. Dave Pool Info

Answers to frequently-asked questions about the contact-point-to-contact-point and parallel-lines aiming systems.

billiards.colostate.edu

I think that's what Mosconi describes in his book.

 

[JC]

I am running my business. If you want an update on your order contact us and Karen or Asia will help you out. I don't handle orders or order statuses.

Thank you for allowing us to protect your cues.

Just ribbing you a little. Your cases are kick ass and I recommend them to all my clients when they want a new case to go with my cues.

 

[justnum]

Aiming systems don't address force distribution issues.

This is a mainly a 14.1 issue.

When breaking clusters no strong system really exists that can diagram the distribution of forces on a break shot.

If I aim to a hit a cluster, none of the aiming systems allows me to estimate anything after the first hit.

Aiming systems should be phased out and I can give you a preview of whats ahead but its off topic.

 

[JB Cases]

It’s all visual alignment stuff. No real numbers.

I elaborated on it prior here:

Understanding Aiming as a Shot Picture

Been away from the game for a while. I pursued other interests and widened my experience. One activity that I took up was traditional archery. I had some very knowledgable and gracious teachers and friends help me develop my shooting skills. I have managed to win multiple archery tournaments and...

forums.azbilliards.com

The equivalent Dr Dave link would be this but I find that page to be more confusing than illustrative:

Contact-Point-to-Contact-Point and Parallel-Lines Aiming Systems - Dr. Dave Pool Info

Answers to frequently-asked questions about the contact-point-to-contact-point and parallel-lines aiming systems.

billiards.colostate.edu

Got it. It IS the same as what I said. Aiming by the numbers is Joe Tucker's version of Equal Opposite. Sounds like you discovered a way to use it that makes it easier.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I guess my point is that it doesn't matter how many aim lines are needed to pocket a ball from anywhere on the table. All that matters is the handful that pertains to cut angle you're looking at.

Knowing how many there are in total tells you how many pertain to the reference angle you're looking at. If for a spot shot there are 25 total "contact patches" on 1/4 of the OB's equator, then if you divide that span into 4 sections (like with fractional references), each "reference section" contains ~6 final aim lines, and you have to hit the right one by feel.

For a shot from midtable, double those numbers, etc.

You don't have to think about those numbers while shooting, but they do matter to how difficult the shot is - and to how "objective" your system is.

pj
chgo

 

[BC21]

Knowing how many there are in total tells you how many pertain to the reference angle you're looking at. If for a spot shot there are 25 total "contact patches" on 1/4 of the OB's equator, then if you divide that span into 4 sections (like with fractional references), each "reference section" contains ~6 final aim lines, and you have to hit the right one by feel.

For a shot from midtable, double those numbers, etc.

You don't have to think about those numbers while shooting, but they do matter to how difficult the shot is - and to how "objective" your system is.

pj
chgo

Wow, you make it sound so complicated!

Place an ob on the center spot and place the cb at least 12 inches or more away and align it so that the centerline between cb and ob points straight into the middle diamond on the end rail. This shot requires a 1/2 ball aim to pocket the ob into either corner pocket. Now move the object 1 diamond to the right or left (along the centerline between the side pockets). Line the cb up again as before, straight into the middle diamond on the rail. This is also a 1/2 ball aim to either corner pocket.

It doesn't matter if there are 100 different aim lines for that ob. Only one is needed. And a system that can provide that one aim line, as my examples above surely do, is pretty objective. With this particular system, some shots require subjectivity, but many (if not most) are very straightforward and require no user guesstimations. Of course, when the player has to account for playing position, using spin, etc....it all becomes subjective.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Wow, you make it sound so complicated!

Condensed version: For all but short shots there are more needed cut angles than can be practically defined by aiming systems. More or less feel is needed depending on the shot distance and the "granularity" of the system (number of clearly defined system angles).

Place an ob on the center spot and place the cb at least 12 inches or more away and align it so that the centerline between cb and ob points straight into the middle diamond on the end rail. This shot requires a 1/2 ball aim to pocket the ob into either corner pocket. Now move the object 1 diamond to the right or left (along the centerline between the side pockets). Line the cb up again as before, straight into the middle diamond on the rail. This is also a 1/2 ball aim to either corner pocket.

It doesn't matter if there are 100 different aim lines for that ob. Only one is needed. And a system that can provide that one aim line, as my examples above surely do, is pretty objective. With this particular system, some shots require subjectivity, but many (if not most) are very straightforward and require no user guesstimations. Of course, when the player has to account for playing position, using spin, etc....it all becomes subjective.

I assume you're talking about Poolology here. I'm not familiar with it, but it sounds like a unique kind of system that might be a better-than-usual tradeoff between complexity and granularity.

pj
chgo

 

[straightline]

So do you know what ghost ball is or not...? How do you state something isn't 'ghost ball' if you don't know WTF it is...?

I'm surprised that you don't have a strong handle on the theory on the practice. Ghost ball is most likely (I won't pretend to know the numbers) the most wildly used method for basic aiming.

Sacrasm. JB can't seem to find a correlation between "contact geometry" and pool in the context of billiards in the context of shot aiming. CTE gives you perceptual damage I think.

Since there's a smattering of ghost ball mentions in this thread:
45 degrees from contact point to the cloth along the object ball/pocket line gives you the base of the ghost ball. You can make a little triangle out of it if you like. You can even make a little square out of that and you have the middle of the ghost ball. THEN you add the cueball apparition for aesthetics or something. I don't do that for what I do with contact geometry but the information is all there in front of you.

 

[straightline]

So honestly, if you can describe how to USE something called contact geometry it would be really helpful to those who prefer to use aiming methods with the components you say are part of "contact geometry".

Already been detailed. It addresses pool more like carpentry than rocket science - thanks to CTE, the best aspect of CG.