Aiming Systems - which one is right for me?

[Hungarian]

Background:

I find that I really love pool. Been playing for 20+ years. Sometimes I play nearly perfect and when I do I play pretty sporty. But most of the time I don't. Example is I've had a 9 and out with only 8 balls on the table for $100 / game vs a really good player. And the table was pretty tight. But still I lost $300. So that shows you that I can play a little but can't keep focused. I really love to use spin. I prefer to draw my ball vs follow. I use lots of powder. I am too lazy to play hard and bear down 100% of the time. So when I get kind of lazy I usually miss everything short. I'm fat. I'm 6' 1&1/2" tall. My knees hurt. Real good vision comes in spurts. I'm right handed. I'm left eye dominant but it's not comfortable to get my left eye over the cue like John Morra. But still I find myself wanting to improve my game. I know I sometimes line up correctly and I know that sometimes I don't line up correctly. I know this has something to do with my aiming system ... or lack there of.


Questions:

1.) Does all of this mean anything?


2.) And how does the discerning customer know which aiming system is correct for their style of play? In other words based on the info above is their one aiming system that's better for my characteristics and poor behavior.

Look forward to your responses.

Thanks..

Mark

 

[Renegade_56]

I'm not reading in your post anything that suggests inconsistency towards aiming,,,,,,,to me it sounds more like you may need to develop a solid preshot routine and then commit yourself to stick to it.

 

[genomachino]

Here's why Perfect Aim will help....

Background:

I find that I really love pool. Been playing for 20+ years. Sometimes I play nearly perfect and when I do I play pretty sporty. But most of the time I don't. Example is I've had a 9 and out with only 8 balls on the table for $100 / game vs a really good player. And the table was pretty tight. But still I lost $300. So that shows you that I can play a little but can't keep focused. I really love to use spin. I prefer to draw my ball vs follow. I use lots of powder. I am too lazy to play hard and bear down 100% of the time. So when I get kind of lazy I usually miss everything short. I'm fat. I'm 6' 1&1/2" tall. My knees hurt. Real good vision comes in spurts. I'm right handed. I'm left eye dominant but it's not comfortable to get my left eye over the cue like John Morra. But still I find myself wanting to improve my game. I know I sometimes line up correctly and I know that sometimes I don't line up correctly. I know this has something to do with my aiming system ... or lack there of.


Questions:

1.) Does all of this mean anything?


2.) And how does the discerning customer know which aiming system is correct for their style of play? In other words based on the info above is their one aiming system that's better for my characteristics and poor behavior.

Look forward to your responses.

Thanks..

Mark

Hi there Mark,

It sounds like you have a hard time practicing for hours at a time.

Perfect Aim starts in the preshot. Now your stroke is in the right place, your stance and your dominant eye.

Most of the time getting back in stroke of trying to stay in stroke is wasted trying to get the eyes in the correct position naturally without really knowing where that Perfect spot is on every shot.

The eyes work better than any camera in the world and autofocus very well. So well that the non dominant eye will just try to take over if it just gets in the right position to do so.

Perfect aim works for everyone that learns it and understands it.

It can also cut down your practice time because your getting in the correct position right away.

I'm still doing the Free phone lessons. Just give me a call.

715-563-8712 Talk to you soon Good Luck Geno............

 

[8pack]

Background:

I find that I really love pool. Been playing for 20+ years. Sometimes I play nearly perfect and when I do I play pretty sporty. But most of the time I don't. Example is I've had a 9 and out with only 8 balls on the table for $100 / game vs a really good player. And the table was pretty tight. But still I lost $300. So that shows you that I can play a little but can't keep focused. I really love to use spin. I prefer to draw my ball vs follow. I use lots of powder. I am too lazy to play hard and bear down 100% of the time. So when I get kind of lazy I usually miss everything short. I'm fat. I'm 6' 1&1/2" tall. My knees hurt. Real good vision comes in spurts. I'm right handed. I'm left eye dominant but it's not comfortable to get my left eye over the cue like John Morra. But still I find myself wanting to improve my game. I know I sometimes line up correctly and I know that sometimes I don't line up correctly. I know this has something to do with my aiming system ... or lack there of.


Questions:

1.) Does all of this mean anything?


2.) And how does the discerning customer know which aiming system is correct for their style of play? In other words based on the info above is their one aiming system that's better for my characteristics and poor behavior.

Look forward to your responses.

Thanks..

Mark

Mark im lost with this( Example is I've had a 9 and out with only 8 balls on the table for $100 / game vs a really good player. And the table was pretty tight. But still I lost $300.).

2.) And how does the discerning customer know which aiming system is correct for their style of play?----You seriuos---- In other words based on the info above is their one aiming system that's better for my characteristics and poor behavior.-----Mix Bob with hamb and all should be fine.
Can you make a long straight in shot?If so don't worry about the eye stuff,

 

[duckie]

Maybe it is more your training/practice methods than aiming.

A good training aid is the arrow by Babe Cranfield. Using this will give you a real world point on the table to train with.

The next step is is to identify your weak areas and use the arrow to train on those weak areas.

Something to looked for in any system is can that system be used easily on any shot in the shot making world of pool. Notice that all the discussion of most systems have always been cut shots.

Notice in the CTE threads, all illustration of how the system works use cut shots and the one thread asking about combos, the only answer from a CTE proponent was "more practice".

It is not beneficial in the long term in pool to learn cut shot system, then a bank system ,then a kick system and so on.

Me, my suggestion is ghost ball by training with the arrow. You can use two arrows to train for practicing banks kicking, combos and caroms.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Maybe it is more your training/practice methods than aiming.

A good training aid is the arrow by Babe Cranfield. Using this will give you a real world point on the table to train with.

The next step is is to identify your weak areas and use the arrow to train on those weak areas.

Something to looked for in any system is can that system be used easily on any shot in the shot making world of pool. Notice that all the discussion of most systems have always been cut shots.

Notice in the CTE threads, all illustration of how the system works use cut shots and the one thread asking about combos, the only answer from a CTE proponent was "more practice".

It is not beneficial in the long term in pool to learn cut shot system, then a bank system ,then a kick system and so on.

Me, my suggestion is ghost ball by training with the arrow. You can use two arrows to train for practicing banks kicking, combos and caroms.

My suggestion would be to take that goofy arrow, fold it into a paper airplane and send it into the wind.

If we ever meet up, I'll play you and let you use the arrow.

 

[ronscuba]

My suggestion would be to take that goofy arrow, fold it into a paper airplane and send it into the wind.

If we ever meet up, I'll play you and let you use the arrow.

As long as it works for them, what is the big deal if someone uses ghost ball, contact point, CTE, or some other method ?

Out of curiosity, what method do you use ?

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Hungarian,

All of the aiming systems and practice in the world are not going to address the essential problem as I see it.

Lose some weight and get into shape. You will feel better, and it will help with your attention span.

Then get yourself back into pool.

AJM

Background:

I find that I really love pool. Been playing for 20+ years. Sometimes I play nearly perfect and when I do I play pretty sporty. But most of the time I don't. Example is I've had a 9 and out with only 8 balls on the table for $100 / game vs a really good player. And the table was pretty tight. But still I lost $300. So that shows you that I can play a little but can't keep focused. I really love to use spin. I prefer to draw my ball vs follow. I use lots of powder. I am too lazy to play hard and bear down 100% of the time. So when I get kind of lazy I usually miss everything short. I'm fat. I'm 6' 1&1/2" tall. My knees hurt. Real good vision comes in spurts. I'm right handed. I'm left eye dominant but it's not comfortable to get my left eye over the cue like John Morra. But still I find myself wanting to improve my game. I know I sometimes line up correctly and I know that sometimes I don't line up correctly. I know this has something to do with my aiming system ... or lack there of.


Questions:

1.) Does all of this mean anything?


2.) And how does the discerning customer know which aiming system is correct for their style of play? In other words based on the info above is their one aiming system that's better for my characteristics and poor behavior.

Look forward to your responses.

Thanks..

Mark

 

[JE54]

Spiderweb (Dave) uses CTE and he can make a ball or two with it. Other then Hal, Stan or Ron, there are some, but not many, that can use a pivot system as well as he can.

 

[duckie]

Spiderweb (Dave) uses CTE and he can make a ball or two with it. Other then Hal, Stan or Ron, there are some, but not many, that can use a pivot system as well as he can.

So what, big deal. I can make a ball or two myself. Without no stinking pivot.

I can also make a caroms, combos, banks, kicks, all using ghost ball all day long.

CTE is more hype than anything. What really makes one game improve is trail and error even though one my think it is the system they are using.

Also knowing what to practice, how to train.

If a system needs a DVD and on top of that personal instruction, well then there is something wrong with that system. I mean look at all the questions and confusion about CTE.

So the best system is one that is simplest and can be used on all shots. Ghostball is the simplest system.

 

[champ2107]

A few years ago I got my first boat. A nice 18ft four winns. I read everything I could about boating and how to operate one. Hell, I raced motorcycle for years so how hard could it be to operate a boat. Plus I have been though Skip Barbers race school.

Well, reading and doing are two different things. My race experience on land was useless on the water.

Even there is "a steering wheel", a boat does not handle anything like a car.

One gets good a reading the wakes you are about to hit. And how you hit them is very important.

Even though I read everything I can about boating, it wasn't until I got on the water did I understand.

Same with pool. You can read, study, bullshit all you want about shooting pool, but until you get out there and do it, you can never learn and truly understanding the dynamics of pool. Just like I can talk like a boater doesn't make me one.

Kinda like some on where that talk like instructors, but really aren't.

I can now tell a boaters skill level by how they talk because I have real world experience to draw from. I can do the same with those on this forum. There are quite a few they have the talk, but not the walk.

So, instead of talking about pool, go play.

FWIW, last year I put in 1850 hours of pool. I did more playing than talking and it shows in my game.

Some guy posted this on the main thread, you need to take the advice in bold this guy made when discussing cte systems, cease to embarrass yourself and leave cte system alone.

 

[genomachino]

Ghost ball has it's limits..............

So what, big deal. I can make a ball or two myself. Without no stinking pivot.

I can also make a caroms, combos, banks, kicks, all using ghost ball all day long.

CTE is more hype than anything. What really makes one game improve is trail and error even though one my think it is the system they are using.

Also knowing what to practice, how to train.

If a system needs a DVD and on top of that personal instruction, well then there is something wrong with that system. I mean look at all the questions and confusion about CTE.

So the best system is one that is simplest and can be used on all shots. Ghostball is the simplest system.

Hi there Duckie,

I give lessons all the time and most players even at the lower levels know what the ghost ball is and how to use it to see a shot.

Last night I gave a group lesson and had players from all different levels from B's to AA. It was at Shooters in Burnsville, MN. Craig the owner does a fun night for a bunch of players from all over. It starts out with simple lessons and then everyone plays against each other. Every 15 minutes they rotate to a different table. I was just supposed to show them simple stuff.

I decided to show them something they could use. I taught them Perfect Aim one by one by showing them their dominant eyes. Half of them couldn't hardly believe which eye was really dominant but when showed how to find it shooting pool were amazed.

Then after the group lesson I stuck around and showed these players one by one Perfect Aim on an individual level. The results were astounding. Almost half of these players had played for 10 years or more. About a quarter of them about 2 to 4 and the rest were pretty new to the game.

I use the ghost ball all the time to illustrate how much of the cue ball will hit the object ball and it's a great teaching tool. In fact some of the very newest players were pretty amazed I think when showed how the ghost ball did this.

But if I told the group this is what you do. Ghost ball, Arrow , ghost ball,Arrow, ghost ball. 3/4 ths of them would have reacted to me like Spidey did about the ghost ball and arrow. They would have been pretty disappointed.

Most of these players already know how the ghost ball works and it's great as an illustration but teaching on any level, it's basically used as an illustration. But if i would have told them this is what they need to do. Ghost ball ghostball ghostball most of them would have said, You got to be kidding. This guy isn't really with it. Is he serious.

I'm thankful to be able to use the ghost ball as a quick illustration to show how much of the cb hits the object ball because it works well and gets the point across very well.

I know these aiming systems work. They help players get the eyes in the correct position. This is why it helps them.

Ghost ball is what it is. An illustration.

Not trying to argue but it is what it is. And that's all that it is.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

So what, big deal. I can make a ball or two myself. Without no stinking pivot.

I can also make a caroms, combos, banks, kicks, all using ghost ball all day long.

CTE is more hype than anything. What really makes one game improve is trail and error even though one my think it is the system they are using.

Also knowing what to practice, how to train.

If a system needs a DVD and on top of that personal instruction, well then there is something wrong with that system. I mean look at all the questions and confusion about CTE.

So the best system is one that is simplest and can be used on all shots. Ghostball is the simplest system.

The arrow is nothing but hype.

 

[8pack]

The arrow is nothing but hype.

Hold on now,i have use this thing and something else i've come up with.
You can actually learn a lot from it. I would explain this a little more in detail,but that would cause me to write a book.And I hate writing.:grin:

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Hold on now,i have use this thing and something else i've come up with.
You can actually learn a lot from it. I would explain this a little more in detail,but that would cause me to write a book.And I hate writing.:grin:

I'm interesting in reading about it.

I'm curious to read how you perceive the arrow spot at same cut angles at different distances.

I've found the spot is perceived to get closer to the OB as distance increases, which (for me) confuses the point of what I'm really practicing at all.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

I wish I would have heard about this before I spent the time learning, Mirror systems for kicks, SID system, Corner 5, Fast Eddie Parkers lineup system for 3 rail kicks, Little Joes 2 rail kick system, et. all.

I thought these would make me a well rounded player, I had no idea that all of those 'systems' could be replace by the arrow.

It must come with an extensive set of directions so you can learn where it needs to be placed on the rail for all of these types of kicks.

p.s. does it work for jumping too?

It is not beneficial in the long term in pool to learn cut shot system, then a bank system ,then a kick system and so on.

Me, my suggestion is ghost ball by training with the arrow. You can use two arrows to train for practicing banks kicking, combos and caroms.

 

[8pack]

I'm interesting in reading about it.

I'm curious to read how you perceive the arrow spot at same cut angles at different distances.

I've found the spot is perceived to get closer to the OB as distance increases, which (for me) confuses the point of what I'm really practicing at all.

First thing.
-----------
Dave i use several different ways of alinement.To me the way I aim on a shot depends on where the ball lays on the table.I know that sounds crazy but i bet there's a lot of people that do this.The second thing is what English I will be using .
I use back of ball aiming a lot ,all angles.(spot on the table,not on the ball.To easy to get lost in the ball .)With the help of practice and the pause which is a must,You need to really look at the shot,and i mean everything.What your eyes are seeing what your tip looks like in relationship with the ball.
I've stated before I always fall rite on the line or thick of the line.
I know when I'm thick on the shot and if I'm spinning the ball I need not move,the only thing i have to adjust for is speed.(aiming point doesn't change,my speed is what must be rite.)There are times I aim really thick and there are times I aim to miss the ball.Really.

When I use the arrow or the thing I created which is a lot better i just practice the visuals between my cues tip in relationship of the contact point and the ghost ball position.Doing this you can really learn a lot. Example from 0 to 30 degree's there's really not a whole lot of movement from the actually contact point and the ghost balls center.Add distance and there's even less.(Its all in a tips movement.)
I would like to say more here but Im not writing a book.
If I did the title would read the Truth about Aiming and some where on the cover would say Warning do You have the time.:smile:
It would be able to cut the hamb system in have though.:grin:

Rambling here.
-------------------------

A while back Sean wrote something in one of the cte threads about if one tries to start pivoting and not really go through the learning process of aiming how it could hurt your progress.I think he hit it rite on the head with his post.These weren't his exact words but what he was trying to relay was rite.
This isn't meant towards you or anyone who has been playing awhile.
Just the new guys .(or anyone who tries to pivot on every shot for the rest of his life.) Just kidding but only just a little.


One more thing..:grin: While shooting for the ghost ball may have some benefit's for certain type shot's, you try to find him on every shot,
you may want to try a different game because you will have a hard time putting anything together.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I'm curious to read how you perceive the arrow spot at same cut angles at different distances.

I've found the spot is perceived to get closer to the OB as distance increases, which (for me) confuses the point of what I'm really practicing at all.

I think difficulty visualizing spatial relationship may be a major reason that many like pivot systems.

pj
chgo

 

[cookie man]

Spiderweb (Dave) uses CTE and he can make a ball or two with it. Other then Hal, Stan or Ron, there are some, but not many, that can use a pivot system as well as he can.

Really, there are quite a few that use pivot systems as good as dave. As one of his students I can attest to that.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

First thing.
-----------
Dave i use several different ways of alinement.To me the way I aim on a shot depends on where the ball lays on the table.I know that sounds crazy but i bet there's a lot of people that do this.The second thing is what English I will be using .
I use back of ball aiming a lot ,all angles.(spot on the table,not on the ball.To easy to get lost in the ball .)With the help of practice and the pause which is a must,You need to really look at the shot,and i mean everything.What your eyes are seeing what your tip looks like in relationship with the ball.
I've stated before I always fall rite on the line or thick of the line.
I know when I'm thick on the shot and if I'm spinning the ball I need not move,the only thing i have to adjust for is speed.(aiming point doesn't change,my speed is what must be rite.)There are times I aim really thick and there are times I aim to miss the ball.Really.

When I use the arrow or the thing I created which is a lot better i just practice the visuals between my cues tip in relationship of the contact point and the ghost ball position.Doing this you can really learn a lot. Example from 0 to 30 degree's there's really not a whole lot of movement from the actually contact point and the ghost balls center.Add distance and there's even less.(Its all in a tips movement.)
I would like to say more here but Im not writing a book.
If I did the title would read the Truth about Aiming and some where on the cover would say Warning do You have the time.:smile:
It would be able to cut the hamb system in have though.:grin:

Rambling here.
-------------------------

A while back Sean wrote something in one of the cte threads about if one tries to start pivoting and not really go through the learning process of aiming how it could hurt your progress.I think he hit it rite on the head with his post.These weren't his exact words but what he was trying to relay was rite.
This isn't meant towards you or anyone who has been playing awhile.
Just the new guys .(or anyone who tries to pivot on every shot for the rest of his life.) Just kidding but only just a little.


One more thing..:grin: While shooting for the ghost ball may have some benefit's for certain type shot's, you try to find him on every shot,
you may want to try a different game because you will have a hard time putting anything together.

I used to do the exact same thing--- aim thick on purpose on all shots. It's very, very effective. One can force balls in by pivoting across the face of the CB.

I don't think these pivot systems are beginner systems for novice players. In fact, I think they're all more advanced systems for those who already have good stroke mechanics and a solid understanding of general aiming theory. They've MOST helped me with the elimination of variables in my PSR.

Now, that doesn't mean I think novices shouldn't learn them -- but they should under a watchful eye of an instructor (meaning, they're not going to short-cut to being a great player by watching a video or reading a thread).