Aiming very close cuts

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
I've do this with feel... no different that a draw shot.

When you cut a ball with any outside cueing, your creating a feel for that table your about to play on.
It's slightly different every table and is in constant change during play as cloth conditions change.... Especially when humidity increases.
Developing a feel for a squirting cue ball (inward or outward is the same) it's a must to get better and better.
Great players develop this ''feel'' for the squirt increase, pushing the cue ball slightly away from the object ball (especially on very thin up close shots).
It's a Major reason, pros like to hit balls on the event equipment, before play begins.

As I add more cue ball speed with inside, along the horizontal plane... it ''pushes'' the cue ball outward.
As does using outside cueing.... pushes Whitey inward.

bm
 
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Tennesseejoe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have success with these shots by placing my cue over the center of the object ball and in line with the center of the pocket, thus finding the most distant point from the pocket on the object ball. Then do a parallel shift with the cue until it is centered over the cue ball. The far point from you on the cue ball and the object ball spot need to connect. I stand up a little to get a good angle to see these points. Then shoot. That's just the way i do it.
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Gotta practice, though.

I believe this, bob :)

as a related question, draw (in general) seems more difficult to control than using top- is that inherently the case for some reason, or would it be more of a personal thing?
I think with top, I can elevate my bridge to create what is more of a level cue, and I can see my tip better, which leads me to believe that using top is easier..?
 

Oikawa

Active member
I believe this, bob :)

as a related question, draw (in general) seems more difficult to control than using top- is that inherently the case for some reason, or would it be more of a personal thing?
I think with top, I can elevate my bridge to create what is more of a level cue, and I can see my tip better, which leads me to believe that using top is easier..?
Your second point is a big one yes. Apart from draw being harder to control speed wise and less "natural", having a less elevated cue is almost always a benefit in shotmaking percentage, due to less swerve, a more consistent stance and it being easier to see the shot.
 

David in FL

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not an instructor, but what I do for very close hits is, rather than getting down low, to stand very tall over the balls. It allows me to see the angle much better.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
How do you aim very close cut shots? Do you have some different method for them, or visualize and execute them just like any shot?

Image of the types of shot I'm talking about:

View attachment 728817

They are a big weakness of mine, so I'm looking for inspiration of some system, method or trick for them. I aim 95%+ of all shots by feel, but these are so annoying I wouldn't mind a system/method/trick if it works better than pure instincts.

What I've been doing this far is just aligning myself while standing to wherever the pot looks right, and then picking a "spot on the wall", extending the pot line as far as I can, and then aim for that spot. It works alright, but the instinctual part of "looking right" is much more inconsistent, compared to when the cut isn't so close.

Another style I rarely use in a clutch if the pot is very important, I'm not feeling confident and I'm not under a shot clock, is to calculate the (almost) exact potting angle (ignoring for throw), by using the table geometry an angle measurement tool.

If anyone is curious, the way I do that is by calculating the OB-pocket angle relative to the CB-approximated ghost ball center angle. This gives me a value between 0 and 8 (0-90 degrees), which I then convert to a fractional aiming point by using a memorized list of sin function values and interpolating between them (0->0, 1->2, 2->3.8, 3->5.6, 4->7, 5->8.4, 6->9.2, 7->9.8, 8->10), and do my best to aim towards that fractional point (0 = full, 5 = half ball hit, 10 = 90 degree cut), accounting/adjusting for throw if needed.

That "system" (not sure what to call it, came up with it myself although I'm sure many people have come up with similar ones) can fail if your initial guess of ghost ball center is off by too much, but the system has a nice self-correcting property to be even more accurate if you iterate it two (or more) times in a specific way (the value you get out of it reveals if the original guess was off, and the direction it was off by). I can explain more if someone is curious about this.

But anyway, it works "good", and can be used for any shot, it's just painfully slow, so I don't bother except in very rare circumstances where it's worth it, which usualle are very close cuts.
Worth a try since other methods have failed for you?

Stand aligned on the CB-to-OB contact point-to-contact point line, then swivel/pivot to center CB (edited to absolute center CB as a correction). This method gives you a fairly reliable aim point including a bias towards the degree of cut to throw the ball into the pocket at a good speed. It may feel to you (depending on your typical aim method) like you're going to slightly overcut the shot, then it scores and tends to be self-correcting.

Try it, you might like it.
 
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sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Worth a try since other methods have failed for you?

Stand aligned on the CB-to-OB contact point-to-contact point line, then swivel/pivot to center CB. This method gives you a fairly reliable aim point including a bias towards the degree of cut to throw the ball into the pocket at a good speed. It may feel to you (depending on your typical aim method) like you're going to slightly overcut the shot, then it scores and tends to be self-correcting.

Try it, you might like it.


Can you or anyone else either diagram this or explain it better because maybe it's just me but what you said is very hard to visualize.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
MP_aiming_1.jpg

I borrowed this diagram, stance as if you're going to cue along the yellow line, then pivot the cue tip towards center CB (edited to absolute center CB).
 
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sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
View attachment 730170
I borrowed this diagram, stance as if you're going to cue along the yellow line, then pivot the cue tip towards center CB.

Forgetting for the moment that isn't the shot in question and that what you're saying now is different from your first post...
I must be doing something wrong because when I try what you suggest I overcut the ball by a large amount.

Pivot how? Backhand, front hand, both? You don't specify.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Forgetting for the moment that isn't the shot in question and that what you're saying now is different from your first post...
I must be doing something wrong because when I try what you suggest I overcut the ball by a large amount.

Pivot how? Backhand, front hand, both? You don't specify.
I believe the first post description of the stance line and the line in the diagram are equivalent.

A parallel shift would do that (closely/subjectively)--thanks, Renegade--so would a backhand pivot toward absolute center (closely/subjectively to start), NOT center cue ball, and I apologize for not stating this correctly the first time.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Good question. Obviously there's no single answer.

pj
chgo
I thought backhand was implied by "stand aligned", meaning in the full pool stance. Is there an aim method where one moves the bridge hand along the cloth to pivot after assuming the stance? I cannot recall one offhand. Pros pivot mostly with their eyes, not their bodies or altering their stance more than by extremely tiny increments.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Is there an aim method where one moves the bridge hand along the cloth to pivot after assuming the stance?
That's not an aiming method; it's a squirt correction method - moving the bridge hand only is called fronthand english, moving the backhand only is called backhand english, and moving both is also a method (Dr. Dave has a named technique for it).

But, like I said, those aren't aiming methods; they're squirt correction methods - the aim adjustment you propose must be a different amount for each different shot (cut angle, CB/OB distance, etc.), not a single pivot point like correcting for squirt. Squirt correction is applied after the aim line is found.

pj
chgo
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
That's not an aiming method; it's a squirt correction method - moving the bridge hand only is called fronthand english, moving the backhand only is called backhand english, and moving both is also a method (Dr. Dave has a named technique for it).

But, like I said, those aren't aiming methods; they're squirt correction methods - the aim adjustment you propose must be a different amount for each different shot (cut angle, CB/OB distance, etc.), not a single pivot point like correcting for squirt. Squirt correction is applied after the aim line is found.

pj
chgo
I understand. I think we agree that some aim systems provide subjective points requiring fine (or large) adjustment.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I think we agree that some aim systems provide subjective points requiring fine (or large) adjustment.
All of them do - except aiming contact point to contact point. For that method you align the cue through both points and then shift parallel (with no angle adjustment) to center CB. Side spin and squirt correction, if needed, is added from there.

pj
chgo
 
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