I didn't suggest you did. I have no idea what got him banned
Aiming Voodoo Video
- Thread starter JB Cases
- Start date
I didn't suggest you did. I have no idea what got him banned
Wow. I go away for a couple holiday days and come back to stuff like this.
You feel sorry for me?
I'm a lonely soul?
I've lost what? I didn't know I was in a fight or a contest
This post is designed to do nothing but hurt me.
I haven't met you Ron, but I heard good things about you from Dave S. when I met with him and we talked about your 90/90 aiming.
I don't know what to make of this. I wouldn't have expected it.
you think it might be this post :thumbup:
Ron was trying to help us and you posted that in the middle of it, think about it and you are an instructor too :thumbup: it just feels like a lot of egos trying to crush all these threads is my opinion.
Last edited:
I don't know how you are interpreting that post.
But it doesn't insult or criticize John
Nor does it insult or criticize any of the three mentioned aiming approaches
It's just a follow up from an earlier conversation where we talked about John's success with two distinct systems. At the time we talked about what might be common about the systems or his approach to the systems that may be consistent with this.
Mike,
Please stop. The post was insulting and was taken by myself and others the way it was intended to be taken.
But if you really want to go down THAT road then what you have said in the past is that my pocketing has NOTHING to do with an aiming system and more to do with my experience.
You have said that you thought I probably played better without using any of these aiming systems.
So by your current statement you would then be saying you think that "we" should be teaching people NOT to aim by a mix of feel and Ghost Ball as I did before meeting Hal.
I agree with that if that is what you are saying.
no prob. Joey..212-737-0077
Just want to bump this post for RonV to see and hopefully respondJust thought I'd let people know that I tried this system out tonight and its fantastic. I struggled with a few shots (similar to what champ2107 posted). I also felt this system is best used when the user KNOWS which process to do for each shot (ETE, ETC, ETOE).
I struggled a lot with the hip pivot for shots that shoot to the left (i.e 1st diagram posted by champ2107). Any advice please?
In a similar situation, I struggled shooting shots to the right using CTE/Pro1. I am of the thinking that mixing aiming methods can be end in disaster as too much going on in ones head etc. HELP ME PLEASE
What I've said is that I played you both before and after you started using Hal's system, and you were a good ball maker both before and after.
I'm confident I never said that. I've never felt that. At most, I've said I couldn't distinguish. I can take your perception for reality that you pocket balls better now than you did before.
I think your label of what you used to do is not so important.
It could be that what you used to do is get down on the shot before you really found the line.
It could be that what you used to do is allow yourself to be biased by the pocket while in the shooting position.
It could be what you used to do was pay inadequate attention to the ball/ball relationship, i.e., the overlap.
It could be what you used to do was pay inadequate attention to aiming generally
It could be what you used to do was pause for too short a time in the set position thus preventing quiet eyes.
If you suffered from any of these problems, then it's conceivable that when you follow the quarters prescription, or the CTE prescription, or the 90/90 prescription, then you'd enjoy improvement.
Now IF your enjoyment of success could be attributed to avoiding one of these pitfalls, that perhaps it would be profitable for instructors to identify that and focus on teaching students to not do it.
That's what I was saying.
No John, I was not insulting you.
Right. However to be fair we have never played in a setting where I wasn't simultaneously working.
I am fairly sure that you have said that using Hal's system has nothing to do with my pocketing ability. But that's history anyway.
Really? I think it's important.
Sure I did on certain shots that always gave me trouble.
I am sure of it for certain shots which I thought to be "hard"
Before Hal and even today I pay ZERO attention to the overlap. I don't get down low enough to see it nor do I care.
Maybe so, or maybe I was paying attention to the wrong method.
You're kidding right? "quiet eyes"???? I know that Dr. Dave has this thing about "quiet eyes". However how do you explain shooters like Lou Butera, Tony Drago, Luc Salvas and a host of other players who play fast and loose.
It's not only conceivable it's a fact. So what you are saying is that Hal and Ron's aiming systems are the cure for all these problems you outline above. I agree.
Sure Mike. Then for once you made such an understatement that everybody took it wrong. I would think that instructors ALREADY teach their students along the lines you identified above. Do you think that they don't?
Well it sure seems that way to me. And not only to me.
The fact of it is though that this thread is NOT about identifying these "pitfalls" as you call them. It's about discussing HOW to use the 90/90 method of aiming developed by Ron Vitello.
The beauty of these systems is that they do FORCE the player to adopt a certain and consistent method of approaching the shot. And it's not a seven point process with a bunch of factors. It's 1-2-3 shoot - 1-2-3 shoot - 1-2-3 shoot.
As an instructor and prolific creator of well-done short instructional videos do you have ANYTHING to bring to the table regarding the 90/90 system or do you want to continue to attempt to subvert the discussion into your concept that all one needs is quiet eyes?
i give up! i will wait for the threads to start when the dvd comes out, these guys make it impossible to gain any knowledge with all the off top crap they post. They make the most knowledgeable guys on these topic pissed off and they stop posting and helping us guys who want to learn! its a joke!
i will wait for the threads to start when the dvd comes out, these guys make it impossible to gain any knowledge with all the off top crap they post. They make the most knowledgeable guys on these topic pissed off and they stop posting and helping us guys who want to learn! its a joke!
Well, too bad the thread got closed.
So let's try one more time. Negativity will not prevail.
_____________________________________________________
From Cleary;
So a while back, I said I would make a little video about how I aim. I had to film something at the pool room yesterday, so I took ten minutes to explain this while I had things set up.
I learned this from Ron V. two years ago. I didn't spend a lot of time with Ron, really only learned some basics while I was filming a video for him. Right away, I knew it worked, but I didn't feel good using it. He teaches pivoting your hips while you are down on the shot. I don't really like moving while I'm down, I feel it throws off my balance (cause I'm so fat I guess) but I kinda just stopped using it after I learned it because of this.
I also had a dominate eye issue so I was never really pivoting to center ball and that makes it hard to do anything.
So after I fixed the Dominate eye issue (I hope its fixed) I caught myself playing with this system again. But pivoting before I was down on my shot. I also came to realize that I was pocketing balls better when I pivoted before I was down on a shot, rather than when I was down.
I setup on my line of aim, as described below and in video, then just fall into my stance to center ball.
I set up a few easy shots, to explain the 3 different setups I use to cut a ball in (depending on cut angle). I know most of these shots can be made with your eyes clothes, but the principals apply to all shots, all over the table.
LINES OF AIM:
Thick cuts (about 1°-45°)
thinner cuts (about 46°-80°)
thin cuts (about 81°-90°)
The video:
http://vimeo.com/17712024" target="_blank">http://vimeo.com/17712024
Also, for "thick cuts" and "thinner cuts", I found you can pivot PAST center to use english. If you have a "thinner cut" and you want to use english, setup for a "thick cut", pivot past center to 2-3 tips of english, and the ball goes. Same applies for "thin cuts". Setup for "thinner cuts" and pivot to english.
Also, as I explain in the video, you can bank with this system as well.
If the cut shot calls for a "thinner cut", setup for a "thick cut" and pivot to center. You should be in line for the bank. After a while, you start to really see this line and banks fall real good. Works for all types of banks. Play with the speed and see what works. The same rules with english apply to banks. The table is full of different possibilities that I figure out all the time, try em out.
************
Also, I don't want to argue about "this doesn't work" or whatever. If you are just trying to pick a fight, I'm not biting. If people have legit questions on how I aim a specific shot, I'll answer the best I can. I'm not going to film more if you have "shots that won't work" or whatever you scientist come up with. I've yet to come across a shot that just doesn't work with this system.
So hopefully people try this out and like it. The hardest part is getting the pivot down right. Lining up while standing, then falling into centerball or english works best for me. Hopefully someone makes a ball they normally don't make because of this. - Andrew "Big Tony" Cleary
If the video plays I will have to watch it. Looks self explanitory though.
Yes I know. I'm plenty afraid of the non-working JB.
[...]
.
Genetic freaks
I don't know about "the" cure. But for some people they may be "a" cure.
Yes I think they largely don't.
Yes I didn't really appreciate the context. I just sort of took it as the current aiming thread
On that we agree.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
Just thought I'd let people know that I tried this system out tonight and its fantastic. I struggled with a few shots (similar to what champ2107 posted). I also felt this system is best used when the user KNOWS which process to do for each shot (ETE, ETC, ETOE).
I struggled a lot with the hip pivot for shots that shoot to the left (i.e 1st diagram posted by champ2107). Any advice please?
In a similar situation, I struggled shooting shots to the right using CTE/Pro1. I am of the thinking that mixing aiming methods can be end in disaster as too much going on in ones head etc. HELP ME PLEASE
Try to make sure your back foot is on what you would perceive to be the shot line before you hip-pivot or swivel.
sfsf
I doubt that. I am sure you kind of look at me as your private ATM....
.
Or people who don't subscribe to the same psychology as the good doctor.
And how would one find out?
And you know this how? I presume you have taken the courses offered by the best instructors or are you speaking in a more generalized way about instructors as defined by anyone who "instructs"?
It's not a general aiming thread.
Mike, it's well known that you are at best sitting on the fence on the subject of Align and Pivot aiming systems. One can easily see that through your posting history. You lean towards the self-delusional concept where most of the success is credited to the shooter subconsciously adjusting to the right line rather than the the mechanical which says that the system itself forces the shooter into the right position.
Why not just call Ron Vitello and talk to him? Why don't you get all the information that he has to give on HOW to perform his system and then work it out on your table. Out of all of us on the forums you are one of the few people who has the knowledge and the resources to do that. One would think that as a student of the game and an instructor you would want to at least talk to a guy who spent years developing something he truly feels is beneficial.
I doubt that.
I am sure you kind of look at me as your private ATM.....
Or people who don't subscribe to the same psychology as the good doctor.
And how would one find out?
And you know this how? I presume you have taken the courses offered by the best instructors or are you speaking in a more generalized way about instructors as defined by anyone who "instructs"?
It's not a general aiming thread.
Mike, it's well known that you are at best sitting on the fence on the subject of Align and Pivot aiming systems. One can easily see that through your posting history. You lean towards the self-delusional concept where most of the success is credited to the shooter subconsciously adjusting to the right line rather than the the mechanical which says that the system itself forces the shooter into the right position.
Why not just call Ron Vitello and talk to him? Why don't you get all the information that he has to give on HOW to perform his system and then work it out on your table. Out of all of us on the forums you are one of the few people who has the knowledge and the resources to do that. One would think that as a student of the game and an instructor you would want to at least talk to a guy who spent years developing something he truly feels is beneficial.
I thought this system is meant to aid me in finding the correct shot line? How am I meant to know where the shot line is prior to doing the steps of the system to put my back leg in the correct position?
Thanks for the reply though
P.S - when I use CTE/Pro1, I see the CTE Line, and thats where my back leg is in line with...
Thanks for the reply though
P.S - when I use CTE/Pro1, I see the CTE Line, and thats where my back leg is in line with...
Concerning "align-and-pivot aiming systems," I think "sitting on the fence" is a good place to be. I certainly consider myself a "fence sitter" (although, like Mike, I'm often labeled as a "naysayer" or "detractor"). Fence sitters like Mike and I try to see (and understand and discuss) both "sides" of the debate. We also try really hard to identify and understand how and why the systems can help some people use the systems effectively. I think people on both sides of the fence have something to offer.
Regards,
Dave (proud to be a "fence sitter" with Mike, whom I respect very much)
I thought this system is meant to aid me in finding the correct shot line? How am I meant to know where the shot line is prior to doing the steps of the system to put my back leg in the correct position?
Thanks for the reply though
P.S - when I use CTE/Pro1, I see the CTE Line, and thats where my back leg is in line with...
You should pretty much know where your back foot shoud be, then you bend over to see your 90/90 line or cte line. Then when you pivot it will be much more comfortable.
I would like to take this opportunity to express my love and life with Billiards.
In 1990 I left NYS for personal reasons and moved back to Philadelphia which is my home town and stayed with my mother when I was 50 years old. I had a Gus Szamboti beautiful stick that he made for me in 1983. Now i didn't know much about pool and played for 6 mos. and did not play until i got to Philly in 1990.
I went to a pool room on Roosevelt Blvd. which was called Blvd. billiards. Little did i know there were some of the greatest pool players in the world including One of the great players was Wade Crane. I was told by someone that the next day they were opening a new pool room called South Philly Billiards, so the next day i went because it was 8 mins. from my house.
The next day I walked in to packed house with most of the best players in the world. They were Efren Ryes, Fransisco B. Luat ,Andon, Rafial Martinez, Allen H. Grady M, Billy Incardona and just too many to mention.
So I continued to go there everyday for 5 years and became best friends with Jimmy and Pete Fusco and ended up working for Pete off and on for 4 years. i studied the game everyday 12- 14 hrs. a day. I could not aim at all. So one day I asked Pete if he could teach me how to aim and he said. Ron V I DO SOMETHING FUNNY WITH MY STICK AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO TEACH THAT.So i said i know you move your stick and said well I'll try and figure it out..I worked on it for six mos. and i had it,except I could only turn the stick 1 tip then my hip was in the way because sometimes i needed a half ball turn. So out of frustration i moved my hip out of the way and there it was I had it.. So since 1992 i have been using that system and it had no name.
People would ask me to show them how to do it and I told them that the half ball turn with the hip came up 90% of the time and the 90/90 was born.
I am going to skip a lot of years. I taught it for many years until 2006 I developed Prostate Cancer and 6 mos later my heart stopped and had a triple bypass. One day I went on AZB. and all these people were asking on the forum who can teach me how to aim, and I wrote I Can. What do you want to know. Well the s...t hit the fan and I got calls from all over the world and 75 e mails in 3 days.
So what's my point your asking now.
One never knows how long there going to be here. So I would like to teach as many people as I can that want to learn the 90/90 system. I just got 2 PM'S from the UK for help and of course I will help them. I can't begin to tell you how easy the method I teach is. You just have to believe. So who ever wants to learn you can call or come to NYC and there is no charge.You will learn in every detail how it works,why it works and where the 3 changes are including Banking,Diamond Systems and positioning using the diamond system...
That's The Best I can Do
RonV
In 1990 I left NYS for personal reasons and moved back to Philadelphia which is my home town and stayed with my mother when I was 50 years old. I had a Gus Szamboti beautiful stick that he made for me in 1983. Now i didn't know much about pool and played for 6 mos. and did not play until i got to Philly in 1990.
I went to a pool room on Roosevelt Blvd. which was called Blvd. billiards. Little did i know there were some of the greatest pool players in the world including One of the great players was Wade Crane. I was told by someone that the next day they were opening a new pool room called South Philly Billiards, so the next day i went because it was 8 mins. from my house.
The next day I walked in to packed house with most of the best players in the world. They were Efren Ryes, Fransisco B. Luat ,Andon, Rafial Martinez, Allen H. Grady M, Billy Incardona and just too many to mention.
So I continued to go there everyday for 5 years and became best friends with Jimmy and Pete Fusco and ended up working for Pete off and on for 4 years. i studied the game everyday 12- 14 hrs. a day. I could not aim at all. So one day I asked Pete if he could teach me how to aim and he said. Ron V I DO SOMETHING FUNNY WITH MY STICK AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO TEACH THAT.So i said i know you move your stick and said well I'll try and figure it out..I worked on it for six mos. and i had it,except I could only turn the stick 1 tip then my hip was in the way because sometimes i needed a half ball turn. So out of frustration i moved my hip out of the way and there it was I had it.. So since 1992 i have been using that system and it had no name.
People would ask me to show them how to do it and I told them that the half ball turn with the hip came up 90% of the time and the 90/90 was born.
I am going to skip a lot of years. I taught it for many years until 2006 I developed Prostate Cancer and 6 mos later my heart stopped and had a triple bypass. One day I went on AZB. and all these people were asking on the forum who can teach me how to aim, and I wrote I Can. What do you want to know. Well the s...t hit the fan and I got calls from all over the world and 75 e mails in 3 days.
So what's my point your asking now.
One never knows how long there going to be here. So I would like to teach as many people as I can that want to learn the 90/90 system. I just got 2 PM'S from the UK for help and of course I will help them. I can't begin to tell you how easy the method I teach is. You just have to believe. So who ever wants to learn you can call or come to NYC and there is no charge.You will learn in every detail how it works,why it works and where the 3 changes are including Banking,Diamond Systems and positioning using the diamond system...
That's The Best I can Do
RonV
That is a very gracious offer from a teacher of your caliber.
Thank You Ron
lol, fence sitters = 100% neutral :thumbup:
lol, you were debating what exactly? :thumbup:
Have you ever herd this saying? "A Wolf in Sheep's Clothing" There are a lot of them sitting on the fence here.