All around best american player??

jay helfert said:
There is a reason why Straight Pool was the main tournament game for decades. To play well took a vast knowledge of pool skills, and only the very best players could win tournaments. It's no accident that Mosconi, Caras and Crane ruled for so many years. Joe Balsis, Luther Lassiter and Ray Martin weren't exactly slouches either. What I observed is that ALL the good Straight Pool players could play any game. This was not necessarily the case with 9-Ball and One Pocket specialists, great though they may be.

The best pool players of my generation were Mizerak, Sigel, Rempe, Hopkins and Varner, all champion Straight Pool players. These fellows also excelled at the other pool games as well. All of them!
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yes jay but noone plays 14.1 now.
so the good players today dont play the game great cause they dont play it much.
i bet johnny archer played 14.1 every day for a while he would play with all the old timers.
 
jay helfert said:
There is a reason why Straight Pool was the main tournament game for decades. To play well took a vast knowledge of pool skills, and only the very best players could win tournaments. It's no accident that Mosconi, Caras and Crane ruled for so many years. Joe Balsis, Luther Lassiter and Ray Martin weren't exactly slouches either. What I observed is that ALL the good Straight Pool players could play any game. This was not necessarily the case with 9-Ball and One Pocket specialists, great though they may be.

The best pool players of my generation were Mizerak, Sigel, Rempe, Hopkins and Varner, all champion Straight Pool players. These fellows also excelled at the other pool games as well. All of them!
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I won't ever argue that back in the day 14.1 was THE game. Today, however, it really is nothing but a practice game. I think the comment Chris just made says a lot. He knows almost everyone in pool and he doesn't even know 5 people that play it.
 
real bartram said:
im sorry to 14.1 fans i dont put this in the mix.
i dont know 5 people who play it .
you say shannon not that big of a fav playing one pocket have you bumped your head jay?
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Ask Shannon. Did you know that Shannon played in One Pocket tournaments that Sigel won? I suspect they played more than once in the early 90's before Mike retired. I wonder what their record is against each other.
 
hi

suprnva said:
John, do you want to play Larry some? You're both going to be in Vegas (as will I) and I'm sure there will be plenty of people there to back you. Or are you just gonna make up some lame ass excuse to not play him again?

Oh, and 14.1 is a practice game. Get over it! Larry has run over 100 many times and over 200 a few too. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't happen. No, it's no 400 or 403, but I agree that if any top player really wanted to do it, they could. You're just the one that thinks it's a real game and actually focuses on it long enough to make those runs.
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sure ill play him 14.1 for 10000,you can stake him.
we will see if it feels like a practice game when you pay off for 10,000.
or maybe we can just bet 10,000 on whos won more titles and money on tour. lol

p.s. the reason i dont chase him to gamble is because of his temper.we did gamble and he got by me 8 ahead after about 8 hours. he broke great and won. by the way hes never beat me in a tourney since then im 5 and 0 against him. night night
 
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jay helfert said:
Ask Shannon. Did you know that Shannon played in One Pocket tournaments that Sigel won? I suspect they played more than once in the early 90's before Mike retired. I wonder what their record is against each other.
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i dont know but dont about a race to 3 tourney record.
and when shannon was at his best sigel at his best the one pocket game shannon would be a big fav.
9 ball i think sigel
banks i know shannon.
 
hi

real bartram said:
im sorry to 14.1 fans i dont put this in the mix.
i dont know 5 people who play it .
you say shannon not that big of a fav playing one pocket have you bumped your head jay?
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i know like 10 in new york alone that can beat you at the game and many more around the world.
 
real bartram said:
yes jay but noone plays 14.1 now.
so the good players today dont play the game great cause they dont play it much.
i bet johnny archer played 14.1 every day for a while he would play with all the old timers.
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I agree with you Chris on all counts. Johnny could play any game, even Straights. He has run over 100 balls quite a few times in practice. He's a great player, no question.

There are occasional Straight Pool tournaments (maybe two a year) and Bob Jewett had the very popular Straight Pool Challenge at DCC. A lot of players played in that, good ones too!

I agree that in talking about the best All Around players today, it has to be 9-Ball (or Ten Ball), One Pocket and Banks. How many times has Efren won that title at DCC? I lost count.

Ten years ago, I would have still picked Varner over Shannon, but not today. Nicky played all three games jam up, but a notch under Sigel at his peak. You might not like it Chris but that's the way it was. I was there. You weren't.
 
jay helfert said:
I agree with you Chris on all counts. Johnny could play any game, even Straights. He has run over 100 balls quite a few times in practice. He's a great player, no question.

There are occasional Straight Pool tournaments (maybe two a year) and Bob Jewett had the very popular Straight Pool Challenge at DCC. A lot of players played in that, good ones too!

I agree that in talking about the best All Around players today, it has to be 9-Ball (or Ten Ball), One Pocket and Banks. How many times has Efren won that title at DCC? I lost count.

Ten years ago, I would have still picked Varner over Shannon, but not today. Nicky played all three games jam up, but a notch under Sigel at his peak. You might not like it Chris but that's the way it was. I was there. You weren't.
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im not sure about sigel and varner.
but i said shannon over sigel in one pocket for sure.
 
john schmidt said:
i know like 10 in new york alone that can beat you at the game and many more around the world.
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do you think i care about 14.1?
i have never played the game prac a few times 10 or less never played 1 person and been all over the country to gamble at pool.
so i bet there are a lot of players who can beat me at this game and i never said i was a champ at any game.
i know a like 10 in ky that would beat you at banks.
 
john schmidt said:
sure ill play him 14.1 for 10000,you can stake him.
we will see if it feels like a practice game when you pay off for 10,000.
or maybe we can just bet 10,000 on whos won more titles and money on tour. lol
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Nobody wants to play your ****ing practice game. He's offered to play you an all-around. Pick 3 of the following games: 9 or 10-ball, 8-ball, one-pocket and banks.

As for more titles, which titles count? Just the ones listed in the AZ player listings back to 2000? Or can we count other known wins as well? I just want to know if you're going to limit it to "major" titles or ANY titles.
 
jay helfert said:
We'll never know my friend. It's like the argument who was the better One Pocket player, Ronnie or Efren? We'll never know.
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come on are you for real on this?
ronnie or efren wow jay
come on efren would bust him 7 days a week and twice on sunday.
 
john schmidt said:
p.s. the reason i dont chase him to gamble is because of his temper.we did gamble and he got by me 8 ahead after about 8 hours. he broke great and won. by the way hes never beat me in a tourney since then im 5 and 0 against him. night night
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Larry has a winning record against Archer in tournaments. Does that mean Larry is better even though Archer beat him gambling?

At least try to make valid points if you're going to waste the time to type.
 
real bartram said:
do you think i care about 14.1?
i have never played the game prac a few times 10 or less never played 1 person and been all over the country to gamble at pool.
so i bet there are a lot of players who can beat me at this game and i never said i was a champ at any game.
i know a like 10 in ky that would beat you at banks.
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see the difference is i dont say nobody plays banks that games a joke etc. banks is hard .

can i try a game that you have played alot of 10ball.ill play you even because i know you dont play 14.1 and if you did youd be great at it.since you dont play that game it would be lame of me to ask you to play it. ill try you 10ball even ,although you break better then me ill give it a shot.
 
jay helfert said:
Ten years ago, I would have still picked Varner over Shannon, but not today. Nicky played all three games jam up, but a notch under Sigel at his peak. You might not like it Chris but that's the way it was. I was there. You weren't.
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No way Sigel played all three games better than Nick....Who has more world titles? Does any American player even come close to Nick in World Titles??

Also, Nick went to the Philippines and beat Efren in his prime in an Exhibition match...

I think this is a classic case of misconception... Most people think the flashy player is a little better than somebody people consider boring to watch...which most people do consider Nick boring...but that is only because he never shoots hard shots...

Sigel couldn't control the white ball like Nick...and not many people did or even do now...

If Sigel was locked in a room with Nick for a week and they had to play One-Pocket, 9-ball, 15 ball banks, 8-ball, and Straight pool...he would be on the losing side..IMO...

He is only a favorite in maybe 1 game...and a coin flip in another...but a clear dog in 1 pocket, banks, and 8 ball..
 
john schmidt said:
see the difference is i dont say nobody plays banks that games a joke etc. banks is hard .

can i try a game that you have played alot of 10ball.ill play you even because i know you dont play 14.1 and if you did youd be great at it.since you dont play that game it would be lame of me to ask you to play it. ill try you 10ball even ,although you break better then me ill give it a shot.
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john you just said how you won all these titles.
how can i play you even?
i have never won a title and prolly wont.
so i need a big spot from you the last 2 we can play.
 
hi

suprnva said:
Larry has a winning record against Archer in tournaments. Does that mean Larry is better even though Archer beat him gambling?

At least try to make valid points if you're going to waste the time to type.
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alright goofball ill make a valid point.ill play your hero 14.1 even though hes ran over 200 etc.
i dont want it to bore him and feel like a practice game so we can bet at least 10,000.
funny thing is any game is a practice game until you put money on it.
hey i noticed your avatar says bet something so why dont you try it. ill give you a little sweat bet of like 2000 if larry plays.
 
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