Dear AZ Billiards Membership, in a recent thread I started I identified some issues that effect all members. Now I have another issue that has a cause and effect that can certainly create additional problems like those that have occurred during the last year. When I joined this forum, I was truly amazed how much information was being freely given by knowledgeable posters and many famous people throughout the billiards industry. Now for me this was beyond my wildest dreams because, one, I own a pool room, two, I sell Billiard Merchandise , three, I do cue repairs and finally because I am trying to learn the art of cue making. This is the only site that offers knowledge on all facets of the billiards industry.
However, starting in late 2006 a number of negative issues have begun to appear, and many are centered on the Wanted / For Sale Forum. During this time more and more people have begun to use this forum in what I believe is a negative manner. They take advantage of our new members, and even some of our well respected members by using deceptive business practices, which include the following:
1. Shill bidding: This type of fraud is designed to extort maximum profit from the sale of an item or items. This is how it works, a seller offers an item for sale at a specified price or by a price upon request. While the initial price for the item may appear very good the seller has never intended to sell the item for price listed. The initial post is designed to create interest only in the item for sale, it is kind of like fishing, you bait your hook and you wait for a bite!!! Then you may or may not communicate with potential buyer, to see how interested they really are. Next another buyer becomes interested in the same item, and this individual shows a great deal of interest in this item. Now what buyer one is unaware of, is that the second buyer is working along with the seller to get the first buyer to offer more money for the item in question.
2. Intentionally offering items for sale with inaccurate Descriptions Again during the time frame this has become more and more of an issue. Sometimes, it just an honest mistake due to a persons lack of knowledge on the subject. However, there are also those who have been intentionally misrepresenting items for sale or trade.
3. Robbery: Now this may seem absurd to some who read this. However, when you take a members money or items in a transaction and you do not send the item in question or you do not return the money this constitutes Robbery plain and simple.
4. False Statements / Hype: This is kind of a Gray area because each of us must allow our own conscience to be our guide. This can be vary deceptive to new members who do not understand how a Internet Forum really works. Many new people come here seeking answers to questions or to get Honest Opinions on equipment to purchase or trade for. Most of the membership here is already aware that there are individuals who Hype the items people have either for sale or that they build beyond the items true expectations or for some type of gain. ( Wink!! Wink!! if you give me a good report, I will give you this, or I will discount your next purchase) This to some members is a sales tactic, however, this forum is not ebay. when Items are offered here as the Best Hitting, The Most Solid, The best Shooting, The best Breaking, or the best of anything it is wise to be aware that this is only an opinion. This is no different than Earl Schib painting any car for $199.95, you will always get what you pay for. Now some of these statements are honest assessments of equipment used by members. However, when people start approaching you through PM because you have shown interest in something, and they are using the above statements, think before you act and report those individuals who approach you with deals as outlined.
To date many Honest people have attempted to put a system in place that could identify those individuals who wish to be dishonest, deceptive, and generally not someone that our membership would want to deal with in any transaction.
Chris Tate with the approval of the forum started a Stickey Thread for buyer / sellers transactions to help correct some of these problems. Next the forum came up with the I-Trader rating for the same purpose as what Chris had already done, but to make it easier to identify individuals at a glance who have been known to violate fair trading practices in any of the above ways on this forum. Next are forum member reputation points / The little green squares that each member has been given by other members for agreement on subjects posted, general forum popularity, and for being known be honest in intent and deed.(Simply stated they are intended to present a positive or negative portrayal of the members overall credibility)
Now to some members this has been used and is being used to give themselves an advantage when trading, when selling, and when speaking about subjects or other members on this forum. In my opinion this defeats the purpose of the above checks and balances that have been put into place by honest people trying to make AZ Billiards a great and safe place to do business. In my opinion it is wrong to buy reputation points, or I-Trader recommendations and it is deceptive in nature to new members, along with being dishonest. Now I am certain that I am not the only member who cares or who feels this way about his subject in general.
Please, I am interested in the opinions of every forum member, everyone here has something to offer, no ones opinion is unimportant. These are my thoughts, I do truly care about this forum and its continued well being as a whole. Our strength is in numbers, we as the forum membership can choose to go in one of two directions, do nothing and know there is a problem and allow it to get worst, or help each other and the forum Leadership to solve these problems.
However, starting in late 2006 a number of negative issues have begun to appear, and many are centered on the Wanted / For Sale Forum. During this time more and more people have begun to use this forum in what I believe is a negative manner. They take advantage of our new members, and even some of our well respected members by using deceptive business practices, which include the following:
1. Shill bidding: This type of fraud is designed to extort maximum profit from the sale of an item or items. This is how it works, a seller offers an item for sale at a specified price or by a price upon request. While the initial price for the item may appear very good the seller has never intended to sell the item for price listed. The initial post is designed to create interest only in the item for sale, it is kind of like fishing, you bait your hook and you wait for a bite!!! Then you may or may not communicate with potential buyer, to see how interested they really are. Next another buyer becomes interested in the same item, and this individual shows a great deal of interest in this item. Now what buyer one is unaware of, is that the second buyer is working along with the seller to get the first buyer to offer more money for the item in question.
2. Intentionally offering items for sale with inaccurate Descriptions Again during the time frame this has become more and more of an issue. Sometimes, it just an honest mistake due to a persons lack of knowledge on the subject. However, there are also those who have been intentionally misrepresenting items for sale or trade.
3. Robbery: Now this may seem absurd to some who read this. However, when you take a members money or items in a transaction and you do not send the item in question or you do not return the money this constitutes Robbery plain and simple.
4. False Statements / Hype: This is kind of a Gray area because each of us must allow our own conscience to be our guide. This can be vary deceptive to new members who do not understand how a Internet Forum really works. Many new people come here seeking answers to questions or to get Honest Opinions on equipment to purchase or trade for. Most of the membership here is already aware that there are individuals who Hype the items people have either for sale or that they build beyond the items true expectations or for some type of gain. ( Wink!! Wink!! if you give me a good report, I will give you this, or I will discount your next purchase) This to some members is a sales tactic, however, this forum is not ebay. when Items are offered here as the Best Hitting, The Most Solid, The best Shooting, The best Breaking, or the best of anything it is wise to be aware that this is only an opinion. This is no different than Earl Schib painting any car for $199.95, you will always get what you pay for. Now some of these statements are honest assessments of equipment used by members. However, when people start approaching you through PM because you have shown interest in something, and they are using the above statements, think before you act and report those individuals who approach you with deals as outlined.
To date many Honest people have attempted to put a system in place that could identify those individuals who wish to be dishonest, deceptive, and generally not someone that our membership would want to deal with in any transaction.
Chris Tate with the approval of the forum started a Stickey Thread for buyer / sellers transactions to help correct some of these problems. Next the forum came up with the I-Trader rating for the same purpose as what Chris had already done, but to make it easier to identify individuals at a glance who have been known to violate fair trading practices in any of the above ways on this forum. Next are forum member reputation points / The little green squares that each member has been given by other members for agreement on subjects posted, general forum popularity, and for being known be honest in intent and deed.(Simply stated they are intended to present a positive or negative portrayal of the members overall credibility)
Now to some members this has been used and is being used to give themselves an advantage when trading, when selling, and when speaking about subjects or other members on this forum. In my opinion this defeats the purpose of the above checks and balances that have been put into place by honest people trying to make AZ Billiards a great and safe place to do business. In my opinion it is wrong to buy reputation points, or I-Trader recommendations and it is deceptive in nature to new members, along with being dishonest. Now I am certain that I am not the only member who cares or who feels this way about his subject in general.
Please, I am interested in the opinions of every forum member, everyone here has something to offer, no ones opinion is unimportant. These are my thoughts, I do truly care about this forum and its continued well being as a whole. Our strength is in numbers, we as the forum membership can choose to go in one of two directions, do nothing and know there is a problem and allow it to get worst, or help each other and the forum Leadership to solve these problems.
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