Yes, it is.
All this talk about tight pockets.
- Thread starter realkingcobra
- Start date
Yes, it is.
Your corner pockets are 4 7/16" with 3/16"ths neoprene facings, 141 degree miters, 15 degree down angles, pocket shelf supports 60% of the ball in the pocket as far back as it'll sit without falling in. Sides are 102 degree miters with a 15 degree down angle and should be 5" with 3/16"ths facings.
Glen
PS. Diamond's pocket openings are designed to be consistant and fair...as in not to hard, yet not to easy...yet consistantly the same from table to table so players that play on different Diamond tables can know what to expect every time they play on one.
Last edited:
To be honest with you, I have so many people waiting on me right now it wouldn't be fair to them to bump them back in the order of where I'm traveling...it's not really about the money either...even an offer of $2,000 wouldn't change things any differently...sorry
Glen
I'm just curious as to how many of you that talk about tight pockets on your tables at home, even know what makes a pocket tight? Do you know the difference in pocket angles, and their effects? Do you understand the effects the down angle and facings have when pocketing balls? Every time I rebuild a table for someone all I'm doing is Diamondizing the tableI guess that's why I was wondering is all
I think most everyone on here is a little lost on what makes a table tight to play on, so tell me what you know and lets see
Glen, the "realkingcobra"
Diamonds are OK but the players out here prefer Brunswicks set up by Ernesto. I prefer Ernesto's pocket cuts to the Diamond angle. I've played on the Diamonds at Butera's and they are buckets compared to a 4" Ernesto cut pocket. They're Ok but not my preferred table.
Ernesto cuts corner pockets parallel straight. Most are 4". A ball can be fired down the rail and if it hits inside of the point it will drop, no matter what spin is transferred.
As a player, I like the way he sets up his tables. Usually he uses gum rubber cushions - Artemis. This is also my favorites cushion.
I've played on poorly shimmed tables with buckets that reject well hit balls. It sucks if you have to baby every shot to entice them to drop. If I can avoid such tables, I will.
Chris
My feelings exactly.
Well, I can tell you this. Malarkeys had Ernesto work on their tables about 5 years ago, and he did just what you're talking about, 4" corner pockets, Artemis K66 cushions mounted lower on the rails to get the nose at the right height....and all of the above! Well, after a while...the real "Paying" customers started to disappear, and along with them....so did the "players"....to the point that Clark had to do something drastic to get them to come back....or close the doors! So, the tables were worked on again....and this time the pockets were opened up to a about 4 3/4" but nothing else was changed, cushions stayed the same.
I came along and talked with Clark, worked out a deal to rebuild one 9ft table, change the cushions to Artemis K55 cushions and pockets to 4 1/2". Bottom line.....the customers told Clark flat out....they'd pay more in table time if Clark would make all the rest of the 9ft's play like the first one I did....sooooooooooo....I'm still here, have 6 done now, working on the last 2 I'm going to rebuild for now, last 3 are going to have to wait until this summer.
But, I'll tell you what....in my time here working on the tables over the last 6 weeks or so, I've seen and talked to so many players I use to know....and they told me why they quit coming to Malarkeys to play pool....because they didn't like how the tables played anymore, and now that I've started changing the way the tables play...to playing correctly...with 4 1/2" pockets....they're all coming back again....and staying longer.
Check out my thread "'before & after" and you'll see the changes in Malarkeys tables.
And for those of you that insist 4" pockets are the best....you're not the customers that are supporting the rooms you play in....it's the other customers....the ones that have money....and want to make balls cuz it's fun
Glen
To be honest with you, I have so many people waiting on me right now it wouldn't be fair to them to bump them back in the order of where I'm traveling...it's not really about the money either...even an offer of $2,000 wouldn't change things any differently...sorry
Glen
Im in no hurry. I am perfectly fine waiting a year just to have you do it. I just want to know what to expect and maybe get penciled in, even it is far out in the future. I am sure I could round up at least two other customers to make it a little more worthwhile. What I am looking for is what I think you deliver, excellent playability.
Well, I can tell you this. Malarkeys had Ernesto work on their tables about 5 years ago, and he did just what you're talking about, 4" corner pockets, Artemis K66 cushions mounted lower on the rails to get the nose at the right height....and all of the above! Well, after a while...the real "Paying" customers started to disappear, and along with them....so did the "players"....to the point that Clark had to do something drastic to get them to come back....or close the doors! So, the tables were worked on again....and this time the pockets were opened up to a about 4 3/4" but nothing else was changed, cushions stayed the same.
I came along and talked with Clark, worked out a deal to rebuild one 9ft table, change the cushions to Artemis K55 cushions and pockets to 4 1/2". Bottom line.....the customers told Clark flat out....they'd pay more in table time if Clark would make all the rest of the 9ft's play like the first one I did....sooooooooooo....I'm still here, have 6 done now, working on the last 2 I'm going to rebuild for now, last 3 are going to have to wait until this summer.
But, I'll tell you what....in my time here working on the tables over the last 6 weeks or so, I've seen and talked to so many players I use to know....and they told me why they quit coming to Malarkeys to play pool....because they didn't like how the tables played anymore, and now that I've started changing the way the tables play...to playing correctly...with 4 1/2" pockets....they're all coming back again....and staying longer.
Check out my thread "'before & after" and you'll see the changes in Malarkeys tables.
And for those of you that insist 4" pockets are the best....you're not the customers that are supporting the rooms you play in....it's the other customers....the ones that have money....and want to make balls cuz it's fun
Glen
Glen,
There is no question the tables are more difficult, but they are not too difficult. They take cheating the pocket out of the game. Adapting to them takes time and practice.
However, consider this. In the tounament areas of Hard Times Los Angeles and Hard Times Sacramento, and the tables in Riverside (possibly) -they had their tables changed out, Hollywood Billiards did too, now the Plush Pocket in the Valley had their main players tables changed out. These are the tables that are hardest to get on in these rooms.
I'm not the only one that likes these tables. Seems to me most of the major rooms on the West Coast have their action tables set up this way - and in my opinion the trend will continue. They are difficult tables but favor accuracy and force a player to play excellent patterns, make accurate cuts, and shoot for the centers - and if you hit within the points, the ball drops. Plus running packages in 9 ball is very uncommon.
At Hollywood Billiards, during the Swanee most of us who are used to the tight pockets groaned when we had to play upstairs on original GC buckets - I hate seeing someone miss a shot and the ball goes in anyway.
Chris
Last edited:
Well, I can tell you this. Malarkeys had Ernesto work on their tables about 5 years ago, and he did just what you're talking about, 4" corner pockets, Artemis K66 cushions mounted lower on the rails to get the nose at the right height....and all of the above! Well, after a while...the real "Paying" customers started to disappear, and along with them....so did the "players"....to the point that Clark had to do something drastic to get them to come back....or close the doors! So, the tables were worked on again....and this time the pockets were opened up to a about 4 3/4" but nothing else was changed, cushions stayed the same.
I came along and talked with Clark, worked out a deal to rebuild one 9ft table, change the cushions to Artemis K55 cushions and pockets to 4 1/2". Bottom line.....the customers told Clark flat out....they'd pay more in table time if Clark would make all the rest of the 9ft's play like the first one I did....sooooooooooo....I'm still here, have 6 done now, working on the last 2 I'm going to rebuild for now, last 3 are going to have to wait until this summer.
But, I'll tell you what....in my time here working on the tables over the last 6 weeks or so, I've seen and talked to so many players I use to know....and they told me why they quit coming to Malarkeys to play pool....because they didn't like how the tables played anymore, and now that I've started changing the way the tables play...to playing correctly...with 4 1/2" pockets....they're all coming back again....and staying longer.
Check out my thread "'before & after" and you'll see the changes in Malarkeys tables.
And for those of you that insist 4" pockets are the best....you're not the customers that are supporting the rooms you play in....it's the other customers....the ones that have money....and want to make balls cuz it's fun
Glen
I can verify that even the top players stopped comming into Malrkey's(at the time City Lights Billiards).I am not knocking Ernesto's work but the tables at the time nearly killed the tourneys and all action.
Chris, do me a favor will you please, could you post the names of some of the top pro players around the country that have tables at home....that have had the pockets tightened to 4"...because if it's a trend....it should be supported by the "Pro's" as well....wouldn't you think?
OR, maybe it's just a home court advantage thing, because if you get beat on ProCut 4 1/2" pockets you figure...well....if the pockets are tighter then maybe I'll have an advantage over the player....and will win more often.....that's called a "gaff" table in my book. It's really a common practice on one pocket tables
...make the pockets soooooooooooo tight....I CAN'T loseGlen
Well, I can tell you this. Malarkeys had Ernesto work on their tables about 5 years ago, and he did just what you're talking about, 4" corner pockets, Artemis K66 cushions mounted lower on the rails to get the nose at the right height....and all of the above! Well, after a while...the real "Paying" customers started to disappear, and along with them....so did the "players"....to the point that Clark had to do something drastic to get them to come back....or close the doors! So, the tables were worked on again....and this time the pockets were opened up to a about 4 3/4" but nothing else was changed, cushions stayed the same.
I came along and talked with Clark, worked out a deal to rebuild one 9ft table, change the cushions to Artemis K55 cushions and pockets to 4 1/2". Bottom line.....the customers told Clark flat out....they'd pay more in table time if Clark would make all the rest of the 9ft's play like the first one I did....sooooooooooo....I'm still here, have 6 done now, working on the last 2 I'm going to rebuild for now, last 3 are going to have to wait until this summer.
But, I'll tell you what....in my time here working on the tables over the last 6 weeks or so, I've seen and talked to so many players I use to know....and they told me why they quit coming to Malarkeys to play pool....because they didn't like how the tables played anymore, and now that I've started changing the way the tables play...to playing correctly...with 4 1/2" pockets....they're all coming back again....and staying longer.
Check out my thread "'before & after" and you'll see the changes in Malarkeys tables.
And for those of you that insist 4" pockets are the best....you're not the customers that are supporting the rooms you play in....it's the other customers....the ones that have money....and want to make balls cuz it's fun
Glen
Someone simply states that they like the way certain tables play and those tables happened to be done by someone else other than yourself. Knowing that you can't stand not getting all of the kudos you had to knock the table mechanic he mentioned and advise how great your work is over his by overwhelming customer response. :bow-down:
Yep, I guess you pretty well summed it all up
...but, I don't think you're going to convince ANYONE that plays at Malarkey's Pool & Brew that the tables played better before I started working on them....but....you're MORE than welcome to try if you'd likeYour problem is....you DON"T know what you're talking about....because YOU have never played on a table "I've" worked on....so that makes you biased....or one sided...depends on how you look at it I guess
........but, I can tell you this...it would be a major mistake for any pool room owner to let me in to work on just "ONE" table in their room...because I let my work speak for it's selfGlen
Chris, do me a favor will you please, could you post the names of some of the top pro players around the country that have tables at home....that have had the pockets tightened to 4"...because if it's a trend....it should be supported by the "Pro's" as well....wouldn't you think?
OR, maybe it's just a home court advantage thing, because if you get beat on ProCut 4 1/2" pockets you figure...well....if the pockets are tighter then maybe I'll have an advantage over the player....and will win more often.....that's called a "gaff" table in my book. It's really a common practice on one pocket tables
Glen
Oscar Dominguez.
Oscar Dominguez.
Who didn't know that
...I know Ernesto plays on the same table, so...name some more
Chris, do me a favor will you please, could you post the names of some of the top pro players around the country that have tables at home....that have had the pockets tightened to 4"...because if it's a trend....it should be supported by the "Pro's" as well....wouldn't you think?
OR, maybe it's just a home court advantage thing, because if you get beat on ProCut 4 1/2" pockets you figure...well....if the pockets are tighter then maybe I'll have an advantage over the player....and will win more often.....that's called a "gaff" table in my book. It's really a common practice on one pocket tables
Glen
Glen,
I've only seen 4 9' Diamonds in Southern California and they were at Sal's. I don't personally know any pros except Oscar and Ernesto, so I don't know what they practice on at home. Earl mentioned his practice table was 4" but I don't know who set it up. Johnny Archer had no problem at Hollywood Billiards when he won the Swanee - he played like he was born on a tight table.
Honestly, if someone is making a living playing pool and traveling, they should be practicing and playing on a Diamond. Diamond's are probably played on in most tournaments, and you want to be used to the equipment you're competing on. I've always admired the pros ability to adapt to tables, lighting, cloth, humidity and other conditions. I know how difficult it is to play and small differences can make a huge difference in your confidence.
In fact, I believe that Ernesto has a couple of Diamonds at his home and practices on them when preparing for a tournament when Diamond is going to be the table. I was just pointing out that there are many of us who like the way he does the tables and his unique style of cutting the pocket. They are not gaffe tables - the balls drop like they're supposed to.
Chris
Last edited: