Allen Hopkins Presents: Team DMIRO Nationwide 10 Ball Tour

well

akaTrigger said:
For someone who has been 'attacked' <I use the term loosely> repeatedly, I think the time it took for him to finally respond like that says a lot. He has taken a lot of heat on here, and he remained a lot calmer for a lot longer than most people would have.

Your point is still taken, but I wanted to bring this up.
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Well, I was a Police Officer for a number of years and we can only be nice and respectful for so long. Then I'll pull out my tazor and shoot you down, or break your arm with my night stick. LOL...

It was all good, if I wasn't being attacked, this thread would not have as many views! So its good advertising!
 
Attention!

Ok people. Mike Howerton and I were up until like 3 AM EST working on the website. We have to refresh the dns codes, and the website will be up tomorrow morning. Some of the website will still be under construction, but most of the information will be there. I am also putting the final touches on the schedule this week for east cost. The West cost schedule will be completel soon. Thank you all for your kind understanding, during this VERY difficult process.
 
ok poolroom owners, return the serve !

the website is up !


now it is time for the proprieters to schedule the events. they can get top

quality competition for justa few thou added. i talked to mike last nite

and everything is a go and now he is expecting the events to be scheluded

at a more rapid pace. website will be updated as needed.

so come on and get onboard. i hear that 10-ball train a runnin !

aka poolzilla:thumbup:
 
"Texas Express" rules in 10-ball??

Folks:

http://teamdmiro.com/rules.php

Call me ancient, call me archaic, call me a dinosaur/throw-back, but why is Team DMIRO playing 10-ball with 9-ball's "Texas Express" rules? 10-ball has always been a nomination rotation game (call-ball, call-pocket, unless it's obvious where the shooter is pocketing the ball). The WPA rules for 10-ball, which are based on 10-ball's history as a game, do not include "Texas Express" rules.

Why introduce "Texas Express" rules into 10-ball? The "call the 10-ball" rule is no consolation, either. If the Texas Express rules are so important to this tournament, why play 10-ball to begin with? IMHO, if you're gonna play Texas Express rules, play 9-ball. Why jump on the 10-ball wagon (presumably because "it's fashionable these days" to play 10-ball), yet drag 9-ball's baggage into it?

Am I missing something?
-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
Folks:

http://teamdmiro.com/rules.php

Call me ancient, call me archaic, call me a dinosaur/throw-back, but why is Team DMIRO playing 10-ball with 9-ball's "Texas Express" rules? 10-ball has always been a nomination rotation game (call-ball, call-pocket, unless it's obvious where the shooter is pocketing the ball). The WPA rules for 10-ball, which are based on 10-ball's history as a game, do not include "Texas Express" rules.

Why introduce "Texas Express" rules into 10-ball? The "call the 10-ball" rule is no consolation, either. If the Texas Express rules are so important to this tournament, why play 10-ball to begin with? IMHO, if you're gonna play Texas Express rules, play 9-ball. Why jump on the 10-ball wagon (presumably because "it's fashionable these days" to play 10-ball), yet drag 9-ball's baggage into it?

Am I missing something?
-Sean
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Sean,

I believe the biggest change is the frequency of the ten ball falling on the break. I've always hated nine ball because you can win on your first shot at the rack. Anything that reduces that frequency is OK with me. Also, the one added ball makes the routes between balls all the more difficult. Not fifteen ball rotation difficult but still harder.

Texas Express is the rule package of choice. Again its fine with me as long as they (the rules makers) don't change horses in the middle of the stream.

Lyn
 
10-ball's world-standardized rules already provide for limitation of "luck factor"

cardiac kid said:
Sean,

I believe the biggest change is the frequency of the ten ball falling on the break. I've always hated nine ball because you can win on your first shot at the rack. Anything that reduces that frequency is OK with me. Also, the one added ball makes the routes between balls all the more difficult. Not fifteen ball rotation difficult but still harder.

Texas Express is the rule package of choice. Again its fine with me as long as they (the rules makers) don't change horses in the middle of the stream.

Lyn
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Lyn:

I appreciate your very helpful insight and opinion. The aforementioned WPA rules for 10-ball already provide exclusion for "golden 10-ball breaks." (I.e. no 10-ball "on the snap" magic win; since the 10-ball wasn't called -- as *all balls* have to be called in 10-ball -- the 10-ball is spotted, and the player continues his/her turn at the table).

Quoted from the rules: "If the ten ball is pocketed on a legal break shot, it will be spotted and the player continues with his inning." So the "worry" about any "win from a single swing of the stick" luck factor was already obviated with the standard rules for 10-ball, from the get-go. No rule intervention needed.

I'm wondering if the perceived "need" for these Texas Express rules might stem from the industry's unfamiliarity with the well-established rules for 10-ball? Perhaps the industry "thinks" 10-ball is "just another version of 9-ball"? If this is true, this is really sad, because this is how well-established games get "bastardized" to either A.) fit a perceived "need" even though the established standard rules already address that need (read: unfamiliarity with the standard rules, so "we'll make up rules on the fly using what we know about 'games of this type'." Or, B.) for marketing factor -- "hey, it looks like 10-ball is really 'hot' right now, and we want to get on this bandwagon as well -- have our 'brand' siphon some of that luster that the now-'hot' game of 10-ball brings. It's a rotation game, right? So it 'must' follow the same rules of the rotation game we know -- 9-ball -- right?"

The unfortunate thing is that each tournament that does this, sets an example for the next tournament. ("Hey, Team DMIRO ran their 10-ball tournament with Texas Express rules, so we shall as well.") And the next one, and the next one, et al., until all 10-ball tournaments are merely 9-ball tournaments with just one extra added ball, and everyone "thinks" 10-ball is just 9-ball with one extra added ball. Same slop, same luck factor, except the triangular 10-ball rack is not as vulnerable to soft-breaking as 9-ball racks are. The original rules for 10-ball will have faded away into history, and "Texas Express" becomes the perceived "norm" for 10-ball.

Personally, I think 9-ballers are making a bigger deal about that "one extra ball on the table to make runs / navigation more difficult" than is really true. Especially on a 9-foot table. On the more-constrained real estate on a bar-box, that one extra ball definitely adds a complexity factor, but not on the expanse of a 9-footer. If there is an increased complexity / difficulty factor on a 9-footer, it's minor and perceived to be greater than it is. The *real* rules of 10-ball is what makes the game more difficult / less vulnerable to luck than 9-ball, not that one extra ball.

What you mention, "Texas Express is the rule package of choice," is actually sad. I'm sure you're correct, but the circumstance itself is sad. If that's true, what stops this from being applied to other games? It wouldn't be a far stretch to ask about Straight Pool or One Pocket. "Hey, we want to run a [ Straight Pool | One Pocket ] tournament, but we want to speed-up these games, so let's apply 'Texas Express' rules to these games." When does it end?

Anyway, these questions of mine are definitely rhetorical at this point, because DMIRO's rules are now "set" and cannot be changed. But I just wanted to point out the flaws / fallacies to the populace, because I personally don't want to see the great game of 10-ball be defaced with the Texas Express rules. I'm hoping the next major 10-ball tournament set up will use the world-standard rules as written, without "dumbing down" bastardization.

Apologies for the rant, but I sincerely hope this is helpful, for what it's worth,
-Sean
 
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Sean,

The reason I originally started a different thread about ten ball rules was having never played in a ten ball tournament. Allen Hopkins is holding another event at Valley Forge next month. I HATE walking into an event not knowing the rules of play. I assumed (my fault) the rules were nine ball with one additional ball in play. The flyer stated "Pro Express" rules. Never heard of those but have played "Texas Express". Wanted to know the difference. Honestly, I wish we played "Grady's rules". That would take virtually all the luck out of the game. Of course, very few players want to play that way!

Thanks for your clarification. I agree.

Lyn
 
I just wanted to say that the biggest difference between 9 and 10 ball has to do with the break/rack. It's about the wing ball being so easy to make in 9 ball unless the rack is bad so 9 ball becomes more of a racking contest than anything else when good players are involved. The ten ball still goes on the break fairly often which is why it shouldn't count and most tournaments use that rule. The patters are tougher requiring more precise cue ball control. More safety play/kicking is involved. But most importantly there is no trick to racking/breaking the balls.
Now my opinion is that Texas express rules should be used. The game was not originally a call shot game. It was exactly like 9 ball but with a more skillful break shot. I can understand peoples desire to eliminate as much of the luck as possible but having played in both call shot and Texas express tournaments I've found the call shot to have caused more problems than it is worth. People argued over wether or not a shot that had been played was obvious or not and people used asking what someone was playing to shark their oponent and throw them out of stroke when the shot was obvious. It also leaves no room for two way shots to be played. I think playing creative two way shots is one of the most beautiful elements of the game and ceartainly should not be eliminated.
 
Mike Davis said:
I just wanted to say that the biggest difference between 9 and 10 ball has to do with the break/rack. It's about the wing ball being so easy to make in 9 ball unless the rack is bad so 9 ball becomes more of a racking contest than anything else when good players are involved. The ten ball still goes on the break fairly often which is why it shouldn't count and most tournaments use that rule. The patters are tougher requiring more precise cue ball control. More safety play/kicking is involved. But most importantly there is no trick to racking/breaking the balls.
Now my opinion is that Texas express rules should be used. The game was not originally a call shot game. It was exactly like 9 ball but with a more skillful break shot. I can understand peoples desire to eliminate as much of the luck as possible but having played in both call shot and Texas express tournaments I've found the call shot to have caused more problems than it is worth. People argued over wether or not a shot that had been played was obvious or not and people used asking what someone was playing to shark their oponent and throw them out of stroke when the shot was obvious. It also leaves no room for two way shots to be played. I think playing creative two way shots is one of the most beautiful elements of the game and ceartainly should not be eliminated.
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Great points Mike. I'll reinforce one of the points you made - There has been too much ill will generated from call shot 10 ball and it's just not necessary in this format IMO.

:thumbup:
 
mcdermott has gotten on board !

oldzilla said:
the website is up !


now it is time for the proprieters to schedule the events. they can get top

quality competition for justa few thou added. i talked to mike last nite

and everything is a go and now he is expecting the events to be scheluded

at a more rapid pace. website will be updated as needed.

so come on and get onboard. i hear that 10-ball train a runnin !

aka poolzilla:thumbup:
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more good news. looks like mcdermott has entered the picture as a sponser. so here's a bump. for all pool players who have hopes of a national tour here is a guy that want to make it work.:thumbup:
 
Mike Davis said:
...It also leaves no room for two way shots to be played. I think playing creative two way shots is one of the most beautiful elements of the game and ceartainly should not be eliminated...
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How does call shot eliminate the two-way shot? I'm not sure I understand this.

Thanks.
 
Doesn't

It dosnt stop someone from doing a 2 way shot. If you are shooting the 5 ball and think the 10 has a chance, then you can call it. If you miss the 10, and make the 5, then you continue to shoot. Providing, you hit the lowest number ball on the table first (of course)

...
 
oldzilla said:
what is your problem man ! do you own a vineyard ? cause you do alot of whining! were you neglected as a child sir?
i am glad you are on the west coast and i am on the east coast so there is not much chance to meet you on any occasion.....

do you intend to play in these events? do you have any interest in these?
if not then it would be nice to let the people who do ask the questions.
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I like what your saying here buddy. This is the truth for so many of these AZ threads. Rep to you buddy.
 
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