Am I a D - Bag

Ok, let's just settle this once and for all..

You must be warned if you shoot at the wrong ball.. non-warning results in another shot.

You must be warned if you're going to play a bad safe.. non-warning results in BiH for yourself.

You must be warned if you're taking a shot with an obvious scratch.. non-warning results in BiH for yourself.

You must be warned if your opponent is on the hill.. non-warning results in a 1 game penalty.

You must be told that accidentally moving 2 balls is a foul, otherwise no foul can be called.

You must be told that scooping is not allowed, otherwise scooping will be allowed.

You must not accept unfair games, or they don't have to be settled.

Everybody gets a trophy, or no prizes can be distributed.

That better?

How many years can people play this game without knowing or following the rules when playing with strangers or in a serious setting?

I can't wait until we implement these for other sports, like NBA players having to warn the opposing players when the shot clock is running out or NFL players letting their opponents know they have too many men on the field.
 
Why do all that? None of those situations have a rule for warning the other player. The 3 foul loss does. No-one expects to be warned if they are going to scratch. In fact, you would be coaching the opposing player if you say something, which IS in most rules as a no-no.

The issue people take offense to here is moot in the 3 foul situation. There was no denying that he was on 3 fouls. If the guy argued that he made a good hit, or hid a bad hit because the other guy was not looking, sure, there may be a jerk call there. He said, yes I fouled 3 times, but you can't take the win because half of the rule is you have to warn the player at 2 fouls. The only issue is that the other player did not follow the rules.

Banks said:
Ok, let's just settle this once and for all..

You must be warned if you shoot at the wrong ball.. non-warning results in another shot.

You must be warned if you're going to play a bad safe.. non-warning results in BiH for yourself.

You must be warned if you're taking a shot with an obvious scratch.. non-warning results in BiH for yourself.

You must be warned if your opponent is on the hill.. non-warning results in a 1 game penalty.

You must be told that accidentally moving 2 balls is a foul, otherwise no foul can be called.

You must be told that scooping is not allowed, otherwise scooping will be allowed.

You must not accept unfair games, or they don't have to be settled.

Everybody gets a trophy, or no prizes can be distributed.

That better?

How many years can people play this game without knowing or following the rules when playing with strangers or in a serious setting?

I can't wait until we implement these for other sports, like NBA players having to warn the opposing players when the shot clock is running out or NFL players letting their opponents know they have too many men on the field.
Click to expand...
 
hang-the-9 said:
Why do all that? None of those situations have a rule for warning the other player. The 3 foul loss does. No-one expects to be warned if they are going to scratch. In fact, you would be coaching the opposing player if you say something, which IS in most rules as a no-no.

The issue people take offense to here is moot in the 3 foul situation. There was no denying that he was on 3 fouls. If the guy argued that he made a good hit, or hid a bad hit because the other guy was not looking, sure, there may be a jerk call there. He said, yes I fouled 3 times, but you can't take the win because half of the rule is you have to warn the player at 2 fouls. The only issue is that the other player did not follow the rules.
Click to expand...

I agree. I was just poking at the people that only like half of the 3-foul rule.
 
CreeDo said:
Just noticed this edit... I hope that's really what you meant and you're not just backpedaling!
If you are only talking about the "must warn in advance" rules, fair enough.
You're following the letter of the law.



You're right, they're two different situations. I got sidetracked by the post above.

In the case of the three foul rule, it's pretty black and white:
normal penalty for the foul, unless there's a warning, then you can apply the special loss-of-game penalty.

I don't like or agree with the frozen ball rule being a two part rule.
I know... "well, that's your problem but it doesn't change the rule."

People who don't give up BIH for the frozen ball situation say
"it's not my job to babysit the guy in the chair, he should know to declare it frozen"

I feel I shouldn't need help babysit the shooter by telling him "hey man, be careful,
you're about to break a rule". It's his job to know that. Nobody should be required to warn him.
Click to expand...

I think calling the frozen ball rule should be there because at times it's hard to see if it's frozen, and you may assume it is or not, which may or may not be the right thing. Hm.. I hope that sentence made sense LOL

This forces someone to look at a close lie of the balls to ensure if it's on the cushion or not.
 
So, what would happen if the opponent declares that it's been 3 successive fouls and they've won? Yet, the OP legitimately thinks that it's only been 2? He's had no warning and now we have an argument.

And before you say that anyone should know how many fouls that they have, you're not living in a realistic universe. Some players play at such as slow pace that it can cause confusion because you haven't been at the table for 3 minutes and a foul can get away from you. I've seen it numerous, numerous times.

Hence, you warn an opponent and receive an acknowledgement, at the appropriate time.....per the rules.
 
This thread is Immensely Entertaining. Gripping, in fact. I haven't had this much fun since I froze both balls to the rail during an ice storm.

I want in the club and I claim Fun Bag. :yeah:
 
I see you already added your name to your Sig line. Good stuff Sis, yer in.
We have to find a female that wants to be a Bag Lady.

Are you OK with a shopping cart?

There is a Bagdad Arizona and a place in Canada called Bagotville.

These will be our home bars.
 
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It is actually Bhagwan, which means blessed one.

I can't be that as it was decided that we are all equal.

We are all Blessed to be together as one.

But our official club flower can be a Bagonia.

We will make an official announcement and membership drive in the Main forum soon, and shortly there after, our
Club meetings will be held in the NPR Forum. Lucky them, eh?
 
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Same thing happened between Corey Duel and Bustamonte.
Corey was on two but Bustamonte didn't warn him, Corey fouled a third time but got away with it because he was not warned.
The rule states you must warn your opponent as he is approaching the table.
West Coast Challenge - California Billiard Club - One pocket

In that match Busamonte claimed he did warn Corey but Corey contended that if a warning was given it was several minutes ago at the end of Bustmontes turn and did not count since Corey was not warned 'as he approached' - Corey was correct.
 
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This sort of thing happens to me all the time. Either my opponent forgets to mark his game, or I forget, scorewise. etc. I always call out myself first only for the sake of not jeapordizing my integrity and being an overall fun person to play with. (you're absolutely correct though if you go by the book) I just don't want to be known as the super stickler of the room, essentially, being my own referee.. Of course, there are many sitations where I wouldn't let something slide or hold something against them. e.g. big money game or tourney. My .02.

Taemin
 
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FASTEDDIE427 said:
ok so this past sunday at a tournement, I fouled for a second time. No warning was given. i fouled a 3rd time. As the gentleman was about to reach for the rack I asked what he was doing, he said i 3 fouled. I said he never told me i was on 2 ( he didn't I swear ) and the fact that that was the 3rd foul is irrelevant. He starts pissing and moaning to the point i gotta call the tournement directer to calm the man down. At another point in the match i froze the object ball at the cueball to the rail ( the object ball was not declared frozen ) and he again tried to say I fouled. I said he did not declare the ball frozen he once again flipped out. Am I a douche or does this guy need to learn to speak up.
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I played many players over the past 30 years, not many people know the rules, but certainly know how to bring you down emotionally. People that raise their voice do not deserve a minute of my time arguing with them even if it means a lose of game; i immediately give in to their demand, i might loose that game, but it seem my unexpected response to their demand back fires at them. Few years back, I came to pool hall, a guy just finished playing a friend of mine, i asked and i was given two names for him, and that my friend lost 4 in a row, my friend quit playing him. That same guy immediately jumped on me and asked me to play, i asked what is his name, and how good he is, he gave me completely different name, and told me he just lost to my friend bad. I immediately told him, sorry cannot play you; he started it lying, what is next!!

One thing i keep reminding people of, you are at a pool hall, not a church!! be ready for the adventure!
 
You are a douche.
I'll bet you would call "illegal shot" on a guy in a wheel chair for not having one foot on the floor when he sinks the game 8 ball.
The obvious is the obvious. Picking your way through rules to extract a win, tells all about your character and lack of it.
 
the rules are the rules but they are sure funny!

We aren't our brother's keeper and aren't expected to hold his hand and help him play. But then if the moron doesn't know he is on two fouls it doesn't count unless we tell him exactly when he is approaching the table! First off, according to everything else about the rules, shouldn't it be your own responsibility to know you are on two? Second off, shouldn't you have the short term memory to remember this little detail if the other player tells you before you get out of your chair?

OK, you have to tell the other player and they have to acknowledge as they approach the table or the three foul rule is void. What happens if you are jumping up and down screaming I am on two and I just ignore your goofy ass? Within the letter of the rules the three foul rule can't be implemented and I didn't cheat in any manner. Matter of fact, exactly what I might do to a stickler for the rules.

Ultimately pool was a gentleman's game and still is a gentlemen's and lady's game. The rules aren't adequate for someone who is focused on taking advantage of every loophole. Just to be clear, these people aren't cheating unless you succeed in calling an unsportsmanlike conduct. Both sides could argue that endlessly too.

It isn't cheating to play by the rules. However I can play totally within the rules and make the game impossible to play. Is it ethical? There is the issue, and obviously this depends on the personal ethics of the people playing and it seems obvious sometimes on the situation with some players. I am a situational player and make no bones about it. I prefer playing a gentleman's game with a gentleman. However I will fight fire with fire and sometimes roll out moves that the other player has never seen or thought of. The stupidity of the shooter is always right if there is no referee. I can move balls around with my hands and point out the shooter is always right. I can rake all the balls to my pocket playing one pocket, shooter is always right, or I can take a one foul penalty. In a lot of years gambling I have never seen unsportsmanlike successfully invoked in a gambling match of the informal variety.

We have to draw lines somewhere or the game is impossible to play. If we draw the lines in a more gentlemanly manner than the other player we are giving him a spot. There was a time I did. However the way I usually gamble is no quarter asked or given. When I play we will play in the other player's manner of play but we will both play that way. The players that want to use the rules as a weapon never play with me very long or very often, their choice and mine.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
We aren't our brother's keeper and aren't expected to hold his hand and help him play. But then if the moron doesn't know he is on two fouls it doesn't count unless we tell him exactly when he is approaching the table! First off, according to everything else about the rules, shouldn't it be your own responsibility to know you are on two? Second off, shouldn't you have the short term memory to remember this little detail if the other player tells you before you get out of your chair?

OK, you have to tell the other player and they have to acknowledge as they approach the table or the three foul rule is void. What happens if you are jumping up and down screaming I am on two and I just ignore your goofy ass? Within the letter of the rules the three foul rule can't be implemented and I didn't cheat in any manner. Matter of fact, exactly what I might do to a stickler for the rules.

Ultimately pool was a gentleman's game and still is a gentlemen's and lady's game. The rules aren't adequate for someone who is focused on taking advantage of every loophole. Just to be clear, these people aren't cheating unless you succeed in calling an unsportsmanlike conduct. Both sides could argue that endlessly too.

It isn't cheating to play by the rules. However I can play totally within the rules and make the game impossible to play. Is it ethical? There is the issue, and obviously this depends on the personal ethics of the people playing and it seems obvious sometimes on the situation with some players. I am a situational player and make no bones about it. I prefer playing a gentleman's game with a gentleman. However I will fight fire with fire and sometimes roll out moves that the other player has never seen or thought of. The stupidity of the shooter is always right if there is no referee. I can move balls around with my hands and point out the shooter is always right. I can rake all the balls to my pocket playing one pocket, shooter is always right, or I can take a one foul penalty. In a lot of years gambling I have never seen unsportsmanlike successfully invoked in a gambling match of the informal variety.

We have to draw lines somewhere or the game is impossible to play. If we draw the lines in a more gentlemanly manner than the other player we are giving him a spot. There was a time I did. However the way I usually gamble is no quarter asked or given. When I play we will play in the other player's manner of play but we will both play that way. The players that want to use the rules as a weapon never play with me very long or very often, their choice and mine.

Hu
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All very well said. The rules are the rules. The application of the rules in the spirit of ensuring a fair game is part of sportsmanship.

The purpose of the rule about warning your opponent he's on two or that a ball is frozen is just to make sure both players know the situation; that they have to make a legal hit or they lose, or that they have to drive a ball to a rail other than the frozen ball to the frozen rail or it's a foul.

The OP makes it clear that both players DID know the situation. Therefore the rules about declaring it out loud SHOULD NOT have been applied, even though they are the rules. I would hope that level of sportsmanship (which is pretty basic) could be taken for granted, but I guess it can't. That's a little sad.

-Andrew
 
Cracktherack said:
You are a douche.
I'll bet you would call "illegal shot" on a guy in a wheel chair for not having one foot on the floor when he sinks the game 8 ball.
The obvious is the obvious. Picking your way through rules to extract a win, tells all about your character and lack of it.
Click to expand...
Great analogy and funny,well to me its funny.But I agree that going by
the rules are fine,but to abide by them and going against what you
know is right,is a tell tale sign that the rule plays a bigger part to
some people,leaving there integrity flapping in the wind.
 
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