Am I a D - Bag

[trustyrusty]

you know, in many situations I don't even want to watch my opponent shoot, so I don't. I couldn't care less if they will call a foul on themselves or not (it's their conscience, not mine). I just find it funny when players post "right or wrong" threads, and then argue with others' opinions. If someone 3 fouls me, but forgot to tell me that I'm on 2, I'd most likely rake the balls, and tell him "well played". In my eyes he WON, and him not reminding me that I had fouled the previous 2 times at the table....

 

[CreeDo]

Als it would have to be in certain situations. Gambling (large sums) or a tournament situation then I wouldn't call fouls on myself. Playing for laughs or small bets then sure... I wouldn't have a problem calling fouls on myself.

So, it's ok to do something kinda sleazy, but only when money's on the line?
Not when the game is meaningless?

That makes absolutely no sense.

If you feel not calling fouls is ok, and there's nothing dishonest or wrong about it...
then you should just act that way all the time, including playing for laughs or small bets.
You've basically openly admitted "if the money's right, sure, I'll cheat."

 

[RunoutJJ]

So, it's ok to do something kinda sleazy, but only when money's on the line?
Not when the game is meaningless?

That makes absolutely no sense.

If you feel not calling fouls is ok, and there's nothing dishonest or wrong about it...
then you should just act that way all the time, including playing for laughs or small bets.
You've basically openly admitted "if the money's right, sure, I'll cheat."

I never said anything about cheating!!

 

[FASTEDDIE427]

I never said anything about cheating!!

That's what she said

 

[CreeDo]

I never said anything about cheating!!

Not calling a foul on yourself is IMO the same as cheating. I know you won't agree,
A lot of people don't agree, and it's kind of sad knowing nothing I say will change their perspective.

I guess those people feel there's a line between
"I intentionally fouled to gain an advantage" (the most basic definition of cheating)
and "I accidentally fouled but chose not to call it".

To me, they're both CLEARLY on the wrong side of the line.

 

[hang-the-9]

Not calling a foul on yourself is IMO the same as cheating. I know you won't agree,
A lot of people don't agree, and it's kind of sad knowing nothing I say will change their perspective.

I guess those people feel there's a line between
"I intentionally fouled to gain an advantage" (the most basic definition of cheating)
and "I accidentally fouled but chose not to call it".

To me, they're both CLEARLY on the wrong side of the line.

In this case, the guy did not argue about a foul, he never said that his 3rd hit was a good hit. All that was done is that he pointed out to the guy that he never said he was on two fouls, therefore he can't win the game on 3 fouls.

None of the arguments about not calling a foul when the opponent does not see it are valid here. The situation is not if the foul was made, it was if the rule that he lost the game on 3 fouls was in play. It was not, because half the rule is that the opponent has to warn him on the 2nd foul.

If he made a bad 3rd hit, then said "no, it was good" or did not say he scratched if the other guy was not looking, THEN one can say he was not 100% moral and honest.

There may be an exception to this if you are playing a new player that does not know the rule, and know that he/she may not know. Even then, it's not up to you to explain the rule to the opponent, it may be the nice thing to do, but no-one is required to make sure that the opponent knows every rule, THEY are required to know the rules they are playing by.

 

[Banks]

Don't be mad, bro!



And don't forget to call Uno.

 

[RunoutJJ]

Not calling a foul on yourself is IMO the same as cheating. I know you won't agree,
A lot of people don't agree, and it's kind of sad knowing nothing I say will change their perspective.

I guess those people feel there's a line between
"I intentionally fouled to gain an advantage" (the most basic definition of cheating)
and "I accidentally fouled but chose not to call it".

To me, they're both CLEARLY on the wrong side of the line.

I never said that I wouldn't call fouls on myself!!! I always call fouls on myself if they are OBVIOUS fouls!! Even if it was close on a hit and my opponent say's it was a bad hit I will agree almost every time and surrender the cueball to them. I do this in good sportsmanship and believe that they honestly feel I made a bad hit. I expect the same from them in return.

NOW.... If my opponent doesnt call a ball frozen or tell me im on two thats a different story. Its not my responsibility to babysit people or point out mistake they make. HELL... I may not tell them they are shooting the wrong ball (Which happened against me with Stan T from canada) because its not my fault that they aren't paying attention. Stan is a pro player and at that point in my pool days he could've giving me the 6 out and the breaks and cooked me. Do you think it was wrong of him not to tell me that I was shooting the wrong ball?? NO!!! Its my fault not his. Did he need that extra BIH to beat me?? Of course not but this was a tournament situation and big money was on the line so you let yoru opponent do as they do and that's that.

Ive played in leagues and ive said yoru shooting the wrong ball or this and that so that the player wouldn't feel bad or like I was trying to edge them out. If it's playoff time I keep my tongue behind my teeth and only speak when necessary.

Like I said in a previous post... It all depends on the situation that you are playing in and thats that.




EDIT:

I did say that I wouldn't call fouls on myself earlier but in fouls I meant as in frozen balls and 3 foul rule. Sorry...

 

[fathomblue]

I don't understand how anyone could think the OP is a d-bag, considering he was following the rules.

This ain't tiddlywinks, people. If there's a reward at the end of the line, whether it be cash, tournament winnings or a plaque.....you play by the rules.

If you want to suspend the rules in some situations, then you need to play strictly for fun amongst friends or in a recreational league with the only reward being that you feel all fuzzy inside after a nice day at the pool hall.

What happens if you suspend the rules and say, "Yea, it was 3 and you didn't warn me on 2. But, since you did such a great job of locking me up, well, I concede that rack." Because THAT is what you would be doing. You're going against the written rule and you're conceding. Would you do this in a Calcutta event, when you have people that may be wagering that you will win the set? What if someone bought you in the Calcutta? Wanna explain to them that your conscience wouldn't allow you to follow the rules and you conceded a game because it would be difficult to sleep that night? Because, if their money is in your saddlebag.....ya better believe they're watching your match.

What if it's simply a league tournament? Well, if you concede that game.....there's no going back. You've lost. The "future" has been altered. What happens if you then go on to lose the match? You've now affected the bracket. So, someone else who followed the rules to the letter now has to face a different opponent. Perhaps it's an opponent that they don't match up as well against. And then THEY lose. And so on and so forth.

Rules are there for a reason. Without them, there would be Old Testament kinda stuff. Fire and brimstone. Cats and dogs living together. MASS HYSTERIA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3ZOKDmorj0

Again......there is no room for your conscience in the game of pool.

 

[trustyrusty]

I don't understand how anyone could think the OP is a d-bag, considering he was following the rules.

This ain't tiddlywinks, people. If there's a reward at the end of the line, whether it be cash, tournament winnings or a plaque.....you play by the rules.

If you want to suspend the rules in some situations, then you need to play strictly for fun amongst friends or in a recreational league with the only reward being that you feel all fuzzy inside after a nice day at the pool hall.

What happens if you suspend the rules and say, "Yea, it was 3 and you didn't warn me on 2. But, since you did such a great job of locking me up, well, I concede that rack." Because THAT is what you would be doing. You're going against the written rule and you're conceding. Would you do this in a Calcutta event, when you have people that may be wagering that you will win the set? What if someone bought you in the Calcutta? Wanna explain to them that your conscience wouldn't allow you to follow the rules and you conceded a game because it would be difficult to sleep that night? Because, if their money is in your saddlebag.....ya better believe they're watching your match.

What if it's simply a league tournament? Well, if you concede that game.....there's no going back. You've lost. The "future" has been altered. What happens if you then go on to lose the match? You've now affected the bracket. So, someone else who followed the rules to the letter now has to face a different opponent. Perhaps it's an opponent that they don't match up as well against. And then THEY lose. And so on and so forth.

Rules are there for a reason. Without them, there would be Old Testament kinda stuff. Fire and brimstone. Cats and dogs living together. MASS HYSTERIA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3ZOKDmorj0

Again......there is no room for your conscience in the game of pool.

I certainly don't feel warm and fuzzy about losing, but I don't need someone to tell me I have fouled my previous two times at the table either. I remember. I've always seen that rule as being a courtesy (reminding your opponent), but I assure you MOST know if they are on two. Nowhere else is that courtesy given. In an 8ball tourney I don't need someone to tell me before I shoot the 8ball that if I pocket the 8 and scratch I lose. I know that. I also know that I lose with 3 consecutive fouls (when stated in the tourney rules). If someone beats me that way....I was outplayed, PERIOD. I can live with that. Thumbing my nose at someone after I 3 foul and saying, too bad you forgot to say I was on 2 wouldn't sit well with me, and I wouldn't take advantage of something having nothing to do with play, sorry. So, calcutta buyers be warned, you are on 2, don't buy me. edited....and I'll stick to playing in whatever form of competition I please.

 

[Spider1]

The frozen ball thing I totally agree on, but the three fouls...when you KNEWyou were on 3 fouls?

Yes, you're a complete douchebag.


That's ok though, some people are just born Massholes.



P.s. if you had tried that 3 foul stunt on me in a league or tournament I would have messed with you mercilessly. There are a zillion shark moves out there of various degrees of infuriating that are legal. If you're a dick to people then don't be surprised when someone is a dick right back. I think that's called "karma"

 

[hang-the-9]

I certainly don't feel warm and fuzzy about losing, but I don't need someone to tell me I have fouled my previous two times at the table either. I remember. I've always seen that rule as being a courtesy (reminding your opponent), but I assure you MOST know if they are on two. Nowhere else is that courtesy given. In an 8ball tourney I don't need someone to tell me before I shoot the 8ball that if I pocket the 8 and scratch I lose. I know that. I also know that I lose with 3 consecutive fouls (when stated in the tourney rules). If someone beats me that way....I was outplayed, PERIOD. I can live with that. Thumbing my nose at someone after I 3 foul and saying, too bad you forgot to say I was on 2 wouldn't sit well with me, and I wouldn't take advantage of something having nothing to do with play, sorry. So, calcutta buyers be warned, you are on 2, don't buy me.

It's not just a courtesy, it's part of the rule. This is form wikipedia because most sports sites are blocked at my work now "Loss of game can occur if three successive fouls are committed and the fouling player is warned audibly or visually after the 2nd foul during the third inning."

Note the "IF" there. The regular scratches do not have a rule where you have to say that the player may scratch and lose.

 

[Lonestar_jim]

Any pro's handing over the cue ball after 3 fouling

Any of you videophiles ever see this happen when the opponent hasn't warned shooter they are on 2 ?

I'll pick "Money-bag"

 

[trustyrusty]

It's not just a courtesy, it's part of the rule. This is form wikipedia because most sports sites are blocked at my work now "Loss of game can occur if three successive fouls are committed and the fouling player is warned audibly or visually after the 2nd foul during the third inning."

Note the "IF" there. The regular scratches do not have a rule where you have to say that the player may scratch and lose.

I completely understand, and have warned an opponent that they are on 2. I'm sure that there are cases where a novice player may A). not know the 3 foul rule is in effect for the tourney or B). be such a novice as to not even know what a 3 foul loss is; that this rule of audible warning may be necessary. It is not with me. Just saying I don't need the warning to know, and wouldn't use a non-warning as a loophole to win a game I clearly lost.

 

[hang-the-9]

I completely understand, and have warned an opponent that they are on 2. I'm sure that there are cases where a novice player may A). not know the 3 foul rule is in effect for the tourney or B). be such a novice as to not even know what a 3 foul loss is; that this rule of audible warning may be necessary. It is not with me. Just saying I don't need the warning to know, and wouldn't use a non-warning as a loophole to win a game I clearly lost.

Correct about a newer player not knowing the 3 foul (or other) rules. I put that in an earlier post of mine as well as an exception. If one is playing a person that does not know the rules well, we should be lenient. A huge clue to that is when a person asks you what a "push" is the first game you play hehe. Happens a lot, I have called a push, and they pick up the cueball thinking it was a foul. Of course as an official D-Bagger and MASShole, I then smack them upside the head, say "whattsa matta you dummy, that was wicked dumb!" and take ball in hand from them.

 

[trustyrusty]

Any of you videophiles ever see this happen when the opponent hasn't warned shooter they are on 2 ?

I'll pick "Money-bag"

Never seen a pro NOT warn their opponent....but how often am I playing PROS in a tourney?! Guys that play pool as their primary source of income I'd guess in nearly EVERY case would warn their opponent, and would also take advantage of their opponent not warning them. They have that right, and the "rules" behind them. Pool is not my primary source of income, and wouldn't like to win a game that I really lost.

 

[RunoutJJ]

I think one of the worse crimes in pool is calling out people on obvious combos. You know.... The ones that the ball being pocketed is hanging in the hole and everybody and your grandmother knows thats what you meant. BUT.... If you dont call that sh__ guess what??? Your SOL buddy. I think its crazy and absurd as the next person but rules are rules. You don't call the combo you loss your turn.

Personally I feel that anybody that pulls this kinda move should be dragged out into the street and everybody gets a free shot :angry:

Pretty scummy if you ask me. You should at least give a warning and if it happens again you have the right to pull that card out.

 

[cleary]

While the rules say you have to be warned.. you're also an assssshole for playing it like that. Honestly goes a long way. It's like double hitting the ball and not calling it on yourself. It's low...

 

[hang-the-9]

I think one of the worse crimes in pool is calling out people on obvious combos. You know.... The ones that the ball being pocketed is hanging in the hole and everybody and your grandmother knows thats what you meant. BUT.... If you dont call that sh__ guess what??? Your SOL buddy. I think its crazy and absurd as the next person but rules are rules. You don't call the combo you loss your turn.

Personally I feel that anybody that pulls this kinda move should be dragged out into the street and everybody gets a free shot :angry:

Pretty scummy if you ask me. You should at least give a warning and if it happens again you have the right to pull that card out.

That is why I love how my Master's League words things, it's called shot 10 ball, but if it's obvious, even a one rail bank, or a straight in combo, no need to call it. This is cut from the rules of the league for 8-ball " This is a "Gentleman's Call Pocket" game. The shooter is not required to call obvious shots, even if shooting the 8-ball. "

In my mind, what the OP did is not the same as any of the other fouls people use as an example. Double-hit on the cueball, no hit on the object ball, etc... NOT the same as a rule that states "you have to warn someone they are on 2 fouls to win on the 3rd". He did not argue that he made a good hit when it was bad.

 

[CreeDo]

I never said that I wouldn't call fouls on myself!!!
EDIT: I did say that I wouldn't call fouls on myself earlier but in fouls I meant as in frozen balls and 3 foul rule. Sorry...

Just noticed this edit... I hope that's really what you meant and you're not just backpedaling!
If you are only talking about the "must warn in advance" rules, fair enough.
You're following the letter of the law.

None of the arguments about not calling a foul when the opponent does not see it are valid here. The situation is not if the foul was made, it was if the rule that he lost the game on 3 fouls was in play. It was not, because half the rule is that the opponent has to warn him on the 2nd foul.

You're right, they're two different situations. I got sidetracked by the post above.

In the case of the three foul rule, it's pretty black and white:
normal penalty for the foul, unless there's a warning, then you can apply the special loss-of-game penalty.

I don't like or agree with the frozen ball rule being a two part rule.
I know... "well, that's your problem but it doesn't change the rule."

People who don't give up BIH for the frozen ball situation say
"it's not my job to babysit the guy in the chair, he should know to declare it frozen"

I feel I shouldn't need help babysit the shooter by telling him "hey man, be careful,
you're about to break a rule". It's his job to know that. Nobody should be required to warn him.