Am I over reacting or is this owner actually an $#!?

btoneill

btoneill

Keeper of the Cheese
Silver Member
Debated writing this up or not, but now that I've had 36 hours to cool my vents it's still bugging me and I wanted to get some others opinions (and here is a place where I'll get a lot of it!).

This occurred this past Saturday at the GSBT tour event at Paradise Billiards in Charlotte. Before I go any further as I know some people won't read the whole thing, this is in no way a criticism of the GSBT or Shannon/Marge who run it. They put on a fine tournament and I understand the decisions they made because as tour operators they are at the mercy of having owners bring their tour into their rooms (ie. they know you don't s*** where you eat).

Paradise Billiards where the event was hosted is a new room that's been open just over 2 months. I was excited as their website lists them as having 20 Diamond tables. My first disappoint was that they in fact only have 16 Diamonds (and 2 GC V's). Second disappointment was when I learned that they would only be using 10 of the tables for the tournament (I was figuring before hand with 20 tables he'd be giving 15 or 16 of them to the tournament). Third disappointment was that it was over an hour from when they opened at noon until they had a bartender. Come on, people like to drink beer when they play pool. Fourth disappointment was the windows in the place weren't tinted. On a sunny day in Charlotte with cars parked all across the front of the building you get a horrid glare off the car windows. But, these are just my "disappointments" at the place, not enough to have written this about purely...

So, I get there at like 12:10pm or so. Register for the tournament then go up to the front desk and ask about a practice table (which was advertised as free starting at noon). The person looks at the computer and tells me that only the tables in the tournament are free for practice, but they have a couple of "tight" Diamonds I can pay for by the hour. I look around and see there are still a couple of tables with only one person practicing, so I figure I'll go jump in on one of those. As I'm about to turn away the girl at the counter tells me to wait a minute, let her check something. She looks at her computer and tells me "You can use the Brunswick if you want". I tell her "sure" and grab a set of balls and head off to practice.

So, now fast forward about 2 hours. By this time the bartender has shown up and I decide to have a beer at the bar and talk to some friends who were there and to meet some new folks and let the people keep playing on the table. After the calcutta starts the girl from the front desk comes up to me and huffingly says "you're the guy who took table 12, you owe us $7.50". I try to very politely tell her "you told me that was part of the tournament and was free practice". She says "no, you're wrong, go up to the desk and pay." So, I wander up to the front desk and see the owner Arthur Rosen at the desk and think to myself "ok, I'm sure the owner will take care of it". So, head up to the desk and explain exactly what happened. He looks at me and says "I know my staff, they explain everything completely, they don't make mistakes, they made it clear you were paying by the hour!". I explain "If they had made it clear, I would have hopped on another table that only had one person playing that was free." He then not so politely says as he's ringing it up "I'll only charge you $5". I really don't give a damn about the $7.50, what I do have an issue with is feeling like I'm being screwed. I held my tongue as I didn't want this to ruin my day as the tournament hasn't even started yet.

So, I go on, have a few more beers play my first match (which I lose since I'm off...) and then head back to the bar. This is about 4:30 or so. Now fast forward to 8:30. I'm finally up for my 2nd match 4 hours later since there are 70 people in the tournament and we're only on 10 tables. What are the other 8 tables doing? Well one of them (a GC V) has a display on it and the tournament desk is setup next to it. Completely understand that table not in play. The other 7 tables they are renting out by the hour. To their regular clients? Nope. They barely have any regular clients. They are renting out the other 7 tables by the hour for practice. I can understand leaving one or two tables for someone who might come, but with the number of people they were all being paid for by tournament participants, so random people coming in wouldn't get a table anyways. So, this causes the 4 hours between matches. I'm hearing grumbling all around and the hours go by about this. People decide to start heading off to do other things and have their friends call when they are getting close to being up. This then causes some tables to sit there for 15 minutes without a match as they wait for people to show up. So, as I said, 8:30pm finally my 2nd match is up, against Arthur Rosen the owner.

I head to my table, get my cues setup and start bouncing a few balls around. About 10 minutes later I head up to the tournament desk and say "Arthur still hasn't shown up yet". I am then informed that he has headed out to the store to buy more food for the bar (this is the _2nd_ time that day that they have had to go to the store to buy food). I'm informed that they won't DQ him as he's the owner and put up $1,000 added (I understand this from the tour's perspective). Also of note, by this time they are already playing people on the next bracket level. I go back to the table and wait another 15 minutes or so and the owner finally shows up. No apologies for making me wait, no nothing. By this time I've basically sharked myself by getting annoyed and play horrid (my own fault). So I graciously tell him good game (no, I'm not being sarcastic). Pack up my stuff, head to the bar to pay my tab (about $30 or so) and head home.

I check the AZ boards later in the evening to see how some friends are doing and see that they had to cancel the ring game since the bar has to close at 2am sharp and they are still trying to get the matches in on the 10 tables...

Oh, and those two "tight" Diamonds that I could pay to practice on, they were part of the tournament. The same tournament tables that they said were free.

So... Opinions... This is a new room. The owner is trying to get people in the door. Has a tiny base of "regulars".

Q1: Do you charge people in the tournament for practice before hand even if they are using tables not in the tournament (aside from my issue with being told it was free)?

Q2: Do you drag on the tournament to 2am in order to make money by selling practice time to participants on 7 other tables?

Q3: Do you put the room ahead of your tournament play? (ie. If you have to leave to do work for your bar, should you drop out of the tournament if your name gets called before you're back _voluntarily_, which keeps the tournament staff from having to be put in the predicament of having to even think about DQ'ing the owner)


To me, this is an owner being an a$$... Trying to milk every dime out of a person no matter what the consequences in the future. Way to build a customer base! This is also the same guy who told the owner of another room he was "going to put him out of business!" Just what we need... Instead of building a new base of players lets plan on taking out other pool rooms. Just what this sport needs... Rumor is he's even offering to pay the weekly fee's of APA teams for the first session if they move to his room (Rumor, but I've heard it from two different people). I wonder if he's going to charge them $12/hour night rate during league after that... (Most rooms in Charlotte give free table time for league play).

Ok, end of my rant. Flame me if I'm wrong... I honestly want to know what people think. I know there are 3 sides to every story...

Brian
 
btoneill said:
So, head up to the desk and explain exactly what happened. He looks at me and says "I know my staff, they explain everything completely, they don't make mistakes, they made it clear you were paying by the hour!".




my 2nd match is up, against Arthur Rosen the owner.

or so and the owner finally shows up. No apologies for making me wait, no nothing.


Brian
Click to expand...

POOR CUSTOMER RELATIONS if he glorified his satff in that manner.In disputes of that nature better customer relationship will be not to charge you at all.
Not saying sorry or not offering apology for keeping you waiting is worse than rudeness or arrogance.
Tournament director also need to apologize to you for that delay and special favor to the owner.:cool:
 
The owner (and his "employees") sounds like a real douche. :rolleyes:

For example, I went to my local room (Stroker's 2 in Tampa) on Saturday, thinking I'd play in their local 9-ball tournament. Unfortunately, they were hosting the regional APA 8-ball finals, and EVERY table (around 20 or so) was in use for the tournament, I couldn't get a single one. I waited over an hour, still no table for me to play on, so I left. No big deal. Sunday, they were hosting the regional APA 9-ball tournament, and just about every table was in use when I got there, around 1:15pm. I asked the waitress if there were any open tables, and she said no, then said "wait, I think the two Diamonds in the corner with the blue cloth aren't being used.") So I went and played on one of them for a couple of hours. When I went to leave, it was no charge for playing, since they were busy with the tournament. THAT'S how a room should be run. Personally, I'd have had no problem paying table time, even if the waitress took over an hour just to make her way to my corner and get me a soda, but still, there's a reason Stroker's in Clearwater and Stroker's 2 in Tampa is a popular place to play. I know when I play in the tournaments they hold, every table is open for "free play" by the participants, as long as they're playing in the tournament.

Hope that room owner really needed the $7.50, or $5, or whatever you paid. Moron. And IMO, he SHOULD have been disqualified for being that late, regardless of what money he put up. Rules are rules, and they should apply equally.
 
Doesn't sound like your business was earned at all. PLenty of options for you in Charlotte, I imagine.

No dollar for you!
 
Brian,
I give them about 6 months before they close down. They certainly aren't going to put any other rooms in the area out of business.
I've heard others complain about the poor customer service, and the very high drink prices. That's hardly the way to get players to return. There are plenty of other places in town.
Steve
 
after reading the entire thing, I feel I'm obligated to respond. It'd be a waste of my time if I didn't, especially after reading the entire short story, so here's my opinion....

:: cough :: @$$hole!! :: cough ::
 
I'm "old school." And in the old school the customer is KING! Without him/her you have no business. With a name like Arthur Rosen he should damn sure know better. Read that any way you want, but I grew up around some pretty sharp (yes Jewish) businessman, and worked for them as a kid. They treated EVERY customer like their best friend. One of these guys told me once that everyone who walks through those doors was a VALUABLE customer. I never forgot that lesson. Sounds like Arthur never learned it.
 
Last edited:
For many years I traveled all over the country working and stopped by many rooms.
I would have no problem saying that 85% of all the rooms I went to were run very poorly. For some reason many room owners are not business people or don't think that a pool room needs to be ran like all other service orientated businesses.

Revisiting many I often found them closed or empty on their last legs. Most of the time with the owner and staff blaming cheap pool players.

Its baffling how some rooms don't see the trouble areas and other avenues to increase their customer base and ultimately their sales.

I believe many feel that if they have one of the only rooms there and good equipment that will be enough.
 
.....I have seen this scenario in the past. The owner is in up to his last nickel, business is not good and he becomes desparate and cannot see beyond the next $$ in the register. He tries to make back his investment NOW!
 
Just wait!

When Mr. Rosen drives this place under he'll probably never understand why! NC is a pool/golf haven and he will never make it with that attitude, no way..
Reminds me of another large pool hall near Raleigh that came with attitude and did a real fine job of driving away all the local clientele much to the joy of their competition.
Many pool halls seem to have NO CLUE how to treat customers, they have high table rents, lousy equipment, lazy staff, nasty filthy restrooms, lousy food and they expect customers to keep coming back. I went into one recently and the place was almost empty, when I asked about table time it was very high so I asked them how that was working for them? Then I left!
Dan
 
Wow

Stories like that really make me appreciate my pool room.

Rosen, like the other poster said, is probably up to his neck in work/debt/stress, but more importantly, he doesn't care about the game, and doesn't have a clue what a player wants. Someone like that shouldn't be running a pool room.
 
I am not a room owner but I work in a pool hall, and I will say these things.

I like seeing the boss stick up for employees. I'm not saying the owner in your story is right in that case, btw.

Without high table time, you can't make rent. Without low table time, you don't have customers and you can't make rent. Screwed if you do, screwed if you don't.

Those are the only two things that stuck out in my mind from the story/replies to the thread. Is it OK if we don't just break even and actually walk home with a profit at the end of the day? Rent goes up every year x% according to your lease. Which means your table time is not going to go down or stay the same as the years wind on.

Your story does sound like the owner F'd things up royally, but I haven't heard his side though.

Be kind to your local houseman, pool players can make tough customers sometimes, we need understanding too.

Justin.
 
I don't think you're over-reacting at all. As a matter of fact you exercised great restraint. I am fortunate to have access to a friendly pool room run by a great couple here in Maryland. They take care of their customers, keep a clean room, both unisex restrooms are ALWAYS clean and stocked with toilet paper, hand soap, paper towels, etc.

There are APA leagues, Traveling APA, weekly 9-ball and 10-ball tournaments, an in-house 8/9 ball money league, an in-house 14.1 league, two flat screen TVs, and for good measure he has three diamond 7-footers, one 3-cushion table and a snooker table!

If anything, he goes out of his way to accommodate some players, sometimes to a fault. And its non-smoking! He has a mixture of Diamonds and Brunswicks, and while some of the tables are not perfect (name a poolhall that has them), they are more than adequate, and he always keeps ALL the balls clean. Oh yeah, and he does cue repair and sells the usual paraphernalia!

Please don't misunderstand, I am not trying to rain on your parade by comparing my poolroom to the one you described, but I just wanted to express how lucky I am to have access to such a room (only 14 miles from home) and how there are decent room owners out there.

Kick this a-hole to the curb and play somewhere else! They do NOT deserve your business.
 
you are a better man than me. i would have laughed in the owners face about the $7.50 just for the pure principal and left right then.
 
Its the little things that makes a room, as many of the above things mentioned...clean balls, customer service, KNOWLEDGABLE STAFF. IF the owner wasn't keen enough to not tint the windows, its a pretty good inclination...he doesnt know what he is doing.


It is only 2 months old, things could change but, in this economy, and regardless with pool players, customer is king, and if you are fair and treat us well...we will stick around like the plague and pay your rent for years.
 
inside_english said:
Please don't misunderstand, I am not trying to rain on your parade by comparing my poolroom to the one you described, but I just wanted to express how lucky I am to have access to such a room (only 14 miles from home) and how there are decent room owners out there.
Click to expand...

Oh, this isn't my normal room. It's actually closer to my house than my normal one (by like a mile). My normal room is a dive, and I like it that way. The owner takes great care of his customers and they in turn take great care of him. He keeps prices low by not spending money on glitzy things. They track all table time, drinks, food, etc by hand on a sheet of paper (which is actually much quicker during hectic times for the bartender than using the damn touch pad computers). He does all the table work himself (while at times it takes awhile for some of the tables to be done, he's not paying out the nose for others to do it). His drinks, food, and table time is dirt cheap. On his Friday night tournaments ($10 entry) he'll have 8 or 9 of his 15 tables in use for it. 100+% payout (women only pay $5/entry and bar kicks in other $5). Probably the reason why on a Friday tournament it's not unheard of to have 25 people show up.

Brian
 
I have to agree. NOT a place I would frequent!

Second thought that comes to mind is:
Any one opening a business that has the intent of running the competition out of business will seldom succeed.

Just my .02.
 
I know Arthur from his time in New York and he's a good guy.

There's so many rooms shutting down all over the place due to the economy and to the lack of interest in pool that it's sad that people are already shooting down a new room due to one person's experience.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top