Am I wasting my time?

bdorman said:
If lessons with a professional aren't in the cards, then take videos of your fundamentals. Set the camera up so it captures your full body from the side and again from the front -- just shooting a ball from center-table into a side pocket. Post the videos in the Ask an Instructor forum. You'll get lots of good advice.
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A few years ago I contacted a person I know who used to be a well known instructor at Amsterdam Billiards in NYC about getting lessons from him. I found out that he now lives in Florida, so I asked him who he might recommend up this way. I found his answer a bit puzzling and yet intriguing.

He said it wasn't really necessary to get instruction these days, that everything and more than I could get from him was out there practically for the taking. He recommended Byrne's books, Dr. Dave's website, Martin's 99 Critical Shots, and watching as much pro pool on YouTube as I could find. He also recommended videotaping myself periodically and learning to access my own play.

I won't mention this man's name, but anybody familiar with the NYC pool scene will know who I'm talking about. I also won't say this is the best way to go (I have since had one very good lesson with a top instructor), but I still think it's interesting that a professional instructor told me this.
 
Taking a lesson or two from one of the instructors mentioned here could only be helpful, but that isn't in everyone. That being said, I think any time spent constructively at the table is probaby good - just so long as you feel like being there. For me, I have to want to play and be in the right frame of mind or all the drilling and practice in the world is just going to be a waste of time. As long as I want to be there it will be productive. Play yourself, play the ghost, pick some simple drills. Enjoy your time at the table, when you do practice is always productive and helpful.
 
I didn't read the whole thread.

What I can tell you is that if you quit, you'll never get any better. If you want to improve and be a better/good player, then you just need to keep playing and practice, practice, practice..........

My advice is to suck it up and take your lumps, then your time will come.
 
Can't beat just working hard on ur game I've been playing 2 years my self in apa and I'm a 6 never had help but I'm looking for mark wilson too teach me more I've been told I'm very good for 2 years of play I wanna get better that's why I called mark just keep playing do some of the things these guys tell u and u will be 4 or 5 in no time oh and number 1 rule have fun
 
I agree with most comments. It depends on where you want to be. Do you want to take the game serious and work your way to bigger tournaments and playing outside of league? If so, then you should work on the fundementals and the pre-shot rituals, after you're comfortable with that, I would train on your stroke, whether it be a stroke trainer or just practice.
If you are just looking to be a league player, stay low and work your way up slowly, then I think you're doing just fine. Practice straight in shots, long shots, work on cuts, then work on banks and kicks. Big part of the game too, is safeties. Maybe work on some speed/ball control.

There's a lot of things you can do, and there is different paces to approach them.
 
DanielDeTinne said:
I practiced by myself for 4 hours today. I started off by playing 8 ball against myself then 9 ball against myself. After that got boring, I began to break an 8 ball rack an see how many balls I could run in no particular order. Most of the time if it was a dry break I would rack again and rebreak. But not always. Sadly, the most I could run is only 8 balls before a miss. Then I would rerack and start again. I averaged 3 balls most of the time. I didn't always take the easiest shot on the table. I tried to maintain cue ball control and take shots that would give me the leave that I wanted. Is this wasting my time? I have only been playing a little over a year and have not played much the past 3 months. I am on an APA league. I am a 3.
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Many said you need to have a goal, you already have a goal, and that is to shoot better pool (this is the goal of everyone who holds a stick for more than three times); there are few ways to do it, one way it is what you are doing, i call it diagnostic routine, you find out pool is not as we see on TV easy, it is hard game and if you are not good at pocketing balls it gets boring, and you find out you lack some skills; now back to the drawing board. Hire a good instructor, learn your basics well, learn how to shoot the 4000 shots possibilities, or at least start with the 2000 possibilities (at first you say oh my God, 4000 shots, but once you know the system it is not that bad); then start racking 9 balls and run out; never practice 8 ball or straight pool, bad for you at first, but once you are good, you go back to 8 ball or any other game; next step, once done with practice, take it to the pool hall, bet few $$ and ensure mastery under pressure, if you fail, back to practice, question everything.

The only big issue for me is, you seem to leave the game for long period and get back to it; this is certainly good for your focus/eyes, but worst for consistency and making balls. To be good in pool, you have to be regular at it so your brain memorize the many tasks involved in making somewhat difficult shots. To be on top of your league, buy a table and practice daily, i am sure some of your buddies have one at their homes and "use it - maybe) so it is in a way unfair IMO, but who knows you might be at perfect level for your league to win. Best of luck.
 
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DanielDeTinne said:
I practiced by myself for 4 hours today. I started off by playing 8 ball against myself then 9 ball against myself. After that got boring, I began to break an 8 ball rack an see how many balls I could run in no particular order. Most of the time if it was a dry break I would rack again and rebreak. But not always. Sadly, the most I could run is only 8 balls before a miss. Then I would rerack and start again. I averaged 3 balls most of the time. I didn't always take the easiest shot on the table. I tried to maintain cue ball control and take shots that would give me the leave that I wanted. Is this wasting my time? I have only been playing a little over a year and have not played much the past 3 months. I am on an APA league. I am a 3.
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Drills my man. It's all about position... not making balls. Right now your just banging your head on the wall
 
I don't think your wasting your time, but that may be because you sound a lot like me. The difference is that I'm pretty old and have been playing pool for over 70 years without ever getting very good at it. Keep it up but don't hesitate to add new elements to your program. You can be you own best teacher. Play straight pool.

Dave Nelson
 
DanielDeTinne said:
I practiced by myself for 4 hours today. I started off by playing 8 ball against myself then 9 ball against myself. After that got boring, I began to break an 8 ball rack an see how many balls I could run in no particular order. Most of the time if it was a dry break I would rack again and rebreak. But not always. Sadly, the most I could run is only 8 balls before a miss. Then I would rerack and start again. I averaged 3 balls most of the time. I didn't always take the easiest shot on the table. I tried to maintain cue ball control and take shots that would give me the leave that I wanted. Is this wasting my time? I have only been playing a little over a year and have not played much the past 3 months. I am on an APA league. I am a 3.
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What do you mean by wasting your time? Doing what you are doing will get you better as long as you maintain focus during the practice session. I try to explain this to my son when he tells me he's "practicing" but he's really just poking balls around the table.

A 3 in an APA is fine for a skill level to run out 8 balls and an average of 3. That's a low to low mid C level. Play 10 racks of 9 ball, take ball and hand and try to run out. You will probably average 2-3 balls, 4-5 would likely be your high run for an APA 3. That's normal and you'll get better as long as you manage to learn the right way.

Playing without a good player to watch what you are doing and helping you is not a good way to learn.
 
hang-the-9 said:
What do you mean by wasting your time? Doing what you are doing will get you better as long as you maintain focus during the practice session. I try to explain this to my son when he tells me he's "practicing" but he's really just poking balls around the table.

A 3 in an APA is fine for a skill level to run out 8 balls and an average of 3. That's a low to low mid C level. Play 10 racks of 9 ball, take ball and hand and try to run out. You will probably average 2-3 balls, 4-5 would likely be your high run for an APA 3. That's normal and you'll get better as long as you manage to learn the right way.

Playing without a good player to watch what you are doing and helping you is not a good way to learn.
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What I meant by waisting my time was how I practice. I enjoy playing. I had to stop playing for a few months at the end of last year. Other than that I try to play as often as possible. I own a table. It is a bar box that has the pockets shimmed to less than 2 balls wide. If I feel I am loosing focus I stop playing for a while. I have never had a break and run out. The best I have done is run to the 8 a few times in 9 ball. In 8 ball I have come to the table after my opponent had a dry break and ran out once.
As far as a goal. I want to be a good enough player to not need a handicap and be able to win with skill not luck.
 
The good news is, if you're an APA 3, then almost anything you practice will be useful.
Even just making balls in the hole with no other goal. That's definitely not a waste of time.

Later on, as you get better, you'll find you can make many common shots, even some long shots
and thin cuts. At that point, if you keep practicing shotmaking but ignore the other parts of the game,
you won't improve as fast as you could be. But you're not at that point yet so don't sweat it.

I see practice as sort of like dieting.
Sure, I could lose weight really fast if I ate one can of tuna fish and one apple a day.
But I'm gonna hate it and quit the diet and not achieve my goal.
Whereas if I eat subway or something, I might not be improving my situation as quickly
as possible, but I'm less likely to hate it and quit.

The important thing is to be honest with yourself.
There's a difference between practice with focus and a goal, and just hitting balls by yourself for fun.
Try to keep track of what you're doing and whether you're getting better or not.
 
First and foremost .. have fun!

There is lots of good advice. Check it
out and see decide what works for you.

One thing I haven't seen is this. Watch the
pros. If you play 8 ball on a bar table watch the
pros do that. Watch them until you can predict
what they are going to do in ball to ball positioning.
Pick a player that you want to mimick or one that
plays like you. Then when you step to the table
you ask yourself what would "whoever" do here?
This will help your pattern play immensely and give
you confidence that you are doing the right thing at
the table.

The rest is mechanics that demands practice.

Good Luck and Play LIGHTS OUT

Joe
 
Drills will do more harm than good if your fundamentals are bad as you will be potentially repeatedly implementing bad habits over and over that will be harder to correct down the road. I should know, ask Randy G how bad the fundys were when I went to school yikes.
 
alstl said:
Try equal offense instead.
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I was told that you should practice 80% and play 20%.

When I practice I do line ups.

I just thought of one routine that you could try

Place the 12 ball on one end ( on the spot) of the table, the 10 ball in the middle
and the 8 ball at the other end.

The other balls are then lined up in the middle between these balls.

With ball in hand to start pot one of the balls to gain position on the 12, 10 or 8 ball
then alternate pot a ball then the 12, 10 or 8 ball keep doing this, when you have potted the 12, 10 or 8 they must be replaced on their spot on the table.

When all the ordinary balls are potted then you clear the 12,10 and 8 ball in order
for a complete break.

This is played with points so one point for the ordinary balls that stay down when potted and 12 points for the 12, 10 points for the 10 ball etc...

In theory the maxiimum break would be 186 points.

You can then keep a daily tally to check on your progress.


Very similar to a snooker line up routine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfB-Mn4-BGk
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
A few years ago I contacted a person I know who used to be a well known instructor at Amsterdam Billiards in NYC about getting lessons from him. I found out that he now lives in Florida, so I asked him who he might recommend up this way. I found his answer a bit puzzling and yet intriguing.

He said it wasn't really necessary to get instruction these days, that everything and more than I could get from him was out there practically for the taking. He recommended Byrne's books, Dr. Dave's website, Martin's 99 Critical Shots, and watching as much pro pool on YouTube as I could find. He also recommended videotaping myself periodically and learning to access my own play.

I won't mention this man's name, but anybody familiar with the NYC pool scene will know who I'm talking about. I also won't say this is the best way to go (I have since had one very good lesson with a top instructor), but I still think it's interesting that a professional instructor told me this.
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I learned just about everything when I started from books and videos. The issue is that I knew what the pros were doing in the video but I had no idea HOW. What bridge they used, what spin, how hard, how the cueball and object ball reacted in relation to all those, if I was aiming properly to hit what I was aiming at, if I was doing something funny with my stroke. A dozen of things that a proper pool curriculum should include.

I really think that because I started learning on my own and have never actually took a lesson that I am stuck at a B level and have not managed to get to an A game.

That is why I usually recommend that a beginner or even a lower level player that played for a bit find at least a much better player if not a pro instructor to work with.
 
Yes, 4 hrs a day is too long. But that's only because you live in Old Bridge NJ.

If I were in Old Bridge NJ, I'd spend 4 hrs a day putting together a nice Pro Mod Chevy for that track at Englishtown! :thumbup: Lucky man living so close to the smell of Nitro Methane in the morning. :)
 
I'll make the same offer I made to Daniel.

hang-the-9 said:
I learned just about everything when I started from books and videos. The issue is that I knew what the pros were doing in the video but I had no idea HOW. What bridge they used, what spin, how hard, how the cueball and object ball reacted in relation to all those, if I was aiming properly to hit what I was aiming at, if I was doing something funny with my stroke. A dozen of things that a proper pool curriculum should include.

I really think that because I started learning on my own and have never actually took a lesson that I am stuck at a B level and have not managed to get to an A game.

That is why I usually recommend that a beginner or even a lower level player that played for a bit find at least a much better player if not a pro instructor to work with.
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Hi there Hang the 9,

I am making a free offer here with my Perfect Aim to show you that this is the reason some players can't seem to get any better. It's all about the eye position.

I've given about 2,000 full Perfect Aim lessons in the last 5 years on the road and about 6,000 mini lessons and that's on the low side of how many.

To correct someones eyes is fairly simple and I can usually do it right on the phone with you on a table. In person works also but I can't be everywhere.

This is something that the eyes don't do naturally for some players as well as others but it can be taught. This is what Perfect Aim is all about. Having the eyes in the most dominant position.

Once you got the eyes right you can improve your aiming skills very quickly. The other skills come quicker also because you can actually see what is happening with the cue ball also. How it reacts when you hit the cue ball with different speed and English.

I can guarantee that in 30 minutes on the phone with you at a pool table that your B ranking will go up in a real quick hurry. Now once you learn this you can improve and you know this is the real deal and the answer you needed to know.

This would be the most important piece of info you will ever learn for your pool game.

I'll do this for you free. Just give me a call during this week when your at the table and if I'm available we'll go to it.

I have never found any teacher or player that is teaching this unless they learned it from me. It's how the eyes naturally work. Nobody ever really figured it out. Some think they know but they don't have a clue. Still in the stone ages.

This is how strong this is. If you are not totally amazed at what I teach you I will sent you $50 for wasting your time.

And all I ask is that you try to help a few of your friends with this once you learn. Works for everyone.

715-563-8712 Anytime after 12:00 noon.

Looking forward to your call to help you play this game a whole lot better and create so much more fun.
 
focus on your mechanics. and they will keep evolving as long as you play, sometimes faster and in big spurts and sometime slowly.

in all honesty, i would seek definite help from someone who knows the game and who is a GOOD teacher. not necessarily even a certified instructor (which is always a plus if you can find one), but maybe a superior player or just someone who knows the game and knows how to instruct. sometimes great coaches arent great players, but they definitely understand the game. at your skill level your problems will be focused primarily in the realms MECHANICS- form, stance, grip, stroke, speed etc. ive observed that players at skill levels under 6 in APA generally have fundamental flaws with their mechanics which hold back progression. mechanics is something that you need instruction with, and someone there to critique you as you begin putting your instruction to use on the table. this part of the game is one of the toughest to over come because you will probably be changing a lot as a player and at first will not be comfortable with what people are telling you to do. on top of that, the things you will learn may hurt your game temporarily like growing pains but once you learn them its like you have a new toy to play with.

there is plenty of good resources out there to learn the game etc, and if you cant find a certified instructor, then find someone who is a good player you know and maybe throw them 10 bucks or buy them a few drinks IF they know what they are talking about and they are good at explaining things. the thing about knowledge in this game is that, everyone has a piece of the puzzle, and if you listen,play hard, and practice you will find more pieces of this puzzle out fast. just some simple, small pieces of advice can take months off of your learning curve.

more important than finding a good instructor- is being a good student.

dont get frustrated, self conscious, cocky, or get an attitude with someone giving their time to you. these are things ive observed with many people tying to learn the game, those that dont take advice well and dont put in the long and hard hours- dont get far. i was lucky enough to have people in the pool hall who saw me putting in the long hours and not getting far, and came over to help someone who was fair tempered, and willing to take advise. i use to be very self conscious about how i looked playing the game, when pretty girls would be laughing about me getting instructions and looking inferior. but ive learned that there is no shame in being a bad player, and EVERYONE has been there. but after a few sessions of on and off instruction,and countless hours at the table. i am an advanced player. and people always wanna shoot with me. and i dont regret a second of it. pool is a skill that will stay with you the rest of your life, and the rush of being a good player and making good plays is priceless.
 
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