American Pool vs Snooker

[mamics]

We here know that running a rack of 9 Ball is not a simple thing but when you compare it to running a century in Snooker well, it doesn't seem to compare..

Agree.
I loved watching the Mosconi Cup last week (televised pool is so rare down here - Trick shot pool seems to be televised way more than regular tourny's.) - and I'm but a mere D grade player - but I can totally see how a layman would think that "9-ball looks easy" - thats the trick I guess - the pro's DO make it look easy for the most part - therefore not all that exciting to watch for the average joe perhaps ?

On the flipside - short 9-ball racks should suit 'short attention span viewers' better than slow defensive frames of snooker one would think ???

 

[Norm Craig]

The thing that everyone seems to think is so terrible about pool in the U.S. :

GAMBLING

Is the reason Snooker is so big

You can place bets on it there legally.

Bingo.
There is a massive legal gambling influence on professional snooker, which creates big purses, which creates higher incentive to view. Not to mention the growing popularity in China and the far east.

 

[Philthepockets]

I dont think many of you understand the history of the sport or Mr Hearns mindset.
Heres Little insight from a couple years back.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...-in-the-arm-for-snooker-says-Barry-Hearn.html

 

[mamics]

How about Darts ? Popularity in-part due to legal gambling influence also ?

I don't understand the attraction / popularity personally - but they seem to pack out those venues in the UK & there is more darts on TV compared to pool it seems ? (free beer at those darts venues maybe ? lol)

 

[CJ Wiley]

Barry Hearn developed the characters and personalities in snooker

What is the magic that draws people to snooker tournaments in Europe and not to pool in the United States? Snooker players are paid big payouts. So what do you think is the key here?

Barry Hearn developed the characters and personalities in snooker (Steve Davis) which is vital to any sport's popularity. People won't watch any game if they aren't familiar with the players.

Legalized gambling on snooker played the next key role, coupled with how the snooker players dressed attracted an older predominantly female demographic.

 

[Colin Colenso]

I may get grief for saying this but maybe part of the problem lies within the games themselves. We here know that running a rack of 9 Ball is not a simple thing but when you compare it to running a century in Snooker well, it doesn't seem to compare.. With sports people like to tune in and see someone do something they could never see themselves do.. Imo to the non-pool player or the casual player 9 ball looks too easy when the pro's play.. Just my opinion and I am sure there are many more reasons why pro pool isn't where we all would like to see it.. I am sure that one day it (pro pool) will be popular

Sent from my GT-P5110 using Tapatalk

I think you're spot on bwally!

Even C players can watch pro 9 ball and believe they can make 99% of the shots being played. 9-ball and 10-ball both encourage the avoidance of challenging shots, so it has become a breaking and kicking competition, both of which are the last things most of us want to see or practice.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Snooker would deflate promptly if there was no wagering on it. The players are all wearing bookmaker's patches. You avoid that truth like the plague because you are so completely invested in your propaganda line that everything in the world is better than America.

That could be true. The main cause of its decline from the 90s to 00s was the illegalization of cigarette sponsorship. It's reminiscent of the straw that broke the wounded back of the IPT, when they outlawed US based online betting, Trudeau's final card after TV viewership and qualifier entries flopped.

 

[voiceofreason]

How about Darts ? Popularity in-part due to legal gambling influence also ?

I don't understand the attraction / popularity personally - but they seem to pack out those venues in the UK & there is more darts on TV compared to pool it seems ? (free beer at those darts venues maybe ? lol)

Apart from the Para Olympics last year, where the atmosphere was indescribable, I have never experienced an atmosphere like that at a pro darts event. truly amazing.

Interestingly, the English Pool Por World Championships are heading to Lakeside in January so it will be interesting to see if they can emulate any of the atmosphere of that event at all..

http://ipapool.com/world-championship/

 

[Avathar]

I doubt, that anybody minds if the spectators gamble/bet on pool matches, aslong, as there is a good control body, that looks after the players...
It would be unacceptable to have players bet on themselves or even tournaments they are in...
Suchthings ARE looked after in snooker (even though they had their own issues with that, if i understand things right ... (however in the snooker world this kind of issue would actually lead to punishments)

I think, that Snooker has of course a bunch of personalities and drama, the dress code and the TV layout with referees that have a professional appearance, a level of difficulty that is obvious for anybody who has seen a snooker table or triedto pocket balls (which makes it much easier to accept Ronny O'Sullivan or Jimmy White as a hero that does something magic, than Ralf or SvB run a 9 pack in 9-Ball with not a single difficult shot, because they position every ball in a way most ball banger in a pool hall could make them ... only few can understand how much skill that needs)

I too agree on the attraction of all of this creates for the female crowd... i never heard my wife talk about pool (and she plays herself!) players, but she and her friends we discussing Neil Robertson playing Ronnie O'Sullivan on facebook ... (surely this had nothing to do with appearance )

I honestly doubt, that american pool can every attract the masses as well ... We should be able to achieve a certain coverage however ... We just cannot be more boring than curling
But what you need are guys like Efren Reyes, Django Bustamante, yes some Earls and Dennis Hatches and guys like Thorsten Hohmann and Ralf Souquet and advertisments for these players ... Thorsten looks smart and plays beautiful straight forward pool, then oyu got Ralf who does the same but looks a bit more casual doing so ... you need some bad guys that people can hate and love ... Dennis Hatch is a perfect example ... he CAN raise a crowd, if he is on fire ...
you need some people who are just magical heros like Efren (Jimmy White) and some tragic heros like Django taking so many years on the top lists to become a world champion ...
We DO have drama to sell ... But we do noteven buy it ourselves ... why should anybody outside of the scene do???

 

[mamics]

SvB run a 9 pack in 9-Ball with not a single difficult shot, because they position every ball in a way most ball banger in a pool hall could make them ... only few can understand how much skill that needs)

Yes this exactly - well said.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

Snooker would deflate promptly if there was no wagering on it. The players are all wearing bookmaker's patches. You avoid that truth like the plague because you are so completely invested in your propaganda line that everything in the world is better than America.

Stay down man. This is getting embarrassing. Know when to quit already.

The players wear bookmaker's patches because they are sponsored by them. Guess what? There wasn't a single bookmaker's patch during snooker's heyday, when half the nation used to tune in. Why was it popular then?

The brutal truth is, snooker is a great sport to watch, and pool isn't. You may peruse my signature at your leisure. We can bet on just about anything here, even pool. So why isn't that popular? What's good for the snookery goose is good for the pooly gander, surely? Why is the MC the only pool on TV and why are viewing figures next to nothing?

People BET on snooker because people LIKE snooker - capiche? Now, WHY do they like snooker? Answer that one, and you have your answer.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Stay down man. This is getting embarrassing. Know when to quit already.

The players wear bookmaker's patches because they are sponsored by them. Guess what? There wasn't a single bookmaker's patch during snooker's heyday, when half the nation used to tune in. Why was it popular then?

The brutal truth is, snooker is a great sport to watch, and pool isn't. You may peruse my signature at your leisure. We can bet on just about anything here, even pool. So why isn't that popular? What's good for the snookery goose is good for the pooly gander, surely? Why is the MC the only pool on TV and why are viewing figures next to nothing?

People BET on snooker because people LIKE snooker - capiche? Now, WHY do they like snooker? Answer that one, and you have your answer.

A lot of truth in your comments. Even though some aspects of snooker are tedious, eg, Foul and a miss, there is a lot of wow factor shots, that few enthusiasts would dare to attempt or expect to make. Snooker rules as the game of shot making among the various cue sport alternatives. If the best snooker players applied themselves to the various other games, I've little doubt they'd dominate, as has been shown by fringe pro snooker talents like Appleton, Melling, Shaw, Boyes and Peach.

 

[Pathetic Shark]

Barry Hearn developed the characters and personalities in snooker (Steve Davis) which is vital to any sport's popularity. People won't watch any game if they aren't familiar with the players.

I suppose what you are saying is true in a sense, but it is damned funny to hear someone use the words "character" and "personality" about Steve Davis lol - see clip. Hearn did not develop this, however, it was just SD's nature. It is no exaggeration to say almost everyone absolutely hated him when he was winning everything, denying the exciting and charismatic 'people's champion' Alex Higgins his rightful crown, in much the same way Hendry did to White a few years later. It was good vs evil, right vs wrong, and captured the public's imagination. There were also a whole host of underlying socio-economic and political factors in play at the time, that I can't be arsed to go into.

But any attempt to recreate this dynamic artificially is doomed to fail IMO. Hearn is fortunate opportunist every bit as much as sporting Svengali. Right place, right time, right people. If you don't have that mix already there, forget it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sGjYgDXEWo

Legalized gambling on snooker played the next key role, coupled with how the snooker players dressed attracted an older predominantly female demographic.

What snooker managed to do was appeal to a broad demographic - virtually everyone could find something to take out of it. And everyone had access to a table...

 

[Pathetic Shark]

A lot of truth in your comments. Even though some aspects of snooker are tedious, eg, Foul and a miss, there is a lot of wow factor shots, that few enthusiasts would dare to attempt or expect to make. Snooker rules as the game of shot making among the various cue sport alternatives. If the best snooker players applied themselves to the various other games, I've little doubt they'd dominate, as has been shown by fringe pro snooker talents like Appleton, Melling, Shaw, Boyes and Peach.

No one around here likes to hear it but the top snooker players are on another planet in terms of cueing a ball. The upper echelons of snooker are insanely good.

 

[voiceofreason]

Barry Hearn developed the characters and personalities in snooker (Steve Davis) which is vital to any sport's popularity. People won't watch any game if they aren't familiar with the players.

Legalized gambling on snooker played the next key role, coupled with how the snooker players dressed attracted an older predominantly female demographic.

Steve Davis, during his heyday, was actually known as Steve "interesting" Davis due to hs boring persona.

He "lightened up" as his star began to wain..

 

[sjm]

I think its simplicity really helps snooker. Except when all the reds are gone, every turn is the same. If you make a red, you get to shoot a colored ball, and the colored balls have greater value. After making a colored ball, you must shoot a red again, and if you make that, you get to shoot at another colored ball, etc. The game is so simple that my grandmother used to watch it when she was in her late 80's, even when she'd lost control of some of her intellectual faculties.

And, yes, the tuxedos were and are a bit part of the lure. There's no particular reason players should have to play in tuxedos in any untelevised match, but when they wear tuxedos in televised events, it markets their sport and its players as respectable. That's really good marketing that paid huge dividends. I spend a lot of time in London and the difference between an English snooker hall and an American pool hall offers further evidence that snooker is played by people who are, typically, well dressed and conduct themselves with dignity while pool is played by less elegant and less civil people.

 

[Thepip]

I just finished watching this a wow what a difference the people are loved for there sport. so what happened in america that made it change. Was it the split between woman and mens pool leagues, because woman are still on TV?

 

[krupa]

After watching the 147 posted by Scaramouche here, it's clear that snooker is just very different from pool games. The pace is different, the rules, the table, the presentation, etc.

The closest thing pool has to snooker in terms of the game itself is 14.1 and it's still different enough to have a very different vibe when watching it.

So for all the extraneous things people are throwing around, don't ignore the fundamental differences between the games and the fact that England (and Europe) is simply not the same culture as the US. Pretty much by definition, we (the US and Europe) are going to like different things.

 

[Tobermory]

I have always been puzzled by what will interest the public and what will not. I can’t imagine anyone watching darts, but then I don’t know a thing about darts. But even my ignorance, which I think is pretty much like the average man’s, is worth noting. How did TV introduce people to darts when the rules seem to be complex? If we somehow got nine ball on television, you can just bet the announcer would insist on explaining the rules to the home audience, for the ten thousandth time.

I rather like curling. I wouldn’t want to watch it every week, but I think it has a certain charm.

This will show you how far out of the TV loop pool is right now. Last Friday, while channel surfing, I actually came upon a broadcast on Fox Sports Mid West, of team dodge ball, with professional teams yet. Dodge ball, for Goodness’ sake, crying out loud, $as23***??wer@@! (That was a representation of stupefied spluttering.)

I think of all the genres of billiards, snooker is the one I would have been least likely to bet on as having the prospect of commercial success. But perhaps SJM was right in saying that the simplicity of snooker is what made it appealing. A woman friend of mine complains that the only game of pool in which she can understand what the players are trying to do is one pocket.

SJM and Avathar both mention the appeal televised snooker had (has) for a non-playing female demographic. Perhaps there is some truth in the statement that the women enjoy seeing the men in tuxedos. Note, however, that the tuxedos are REAL tuxedos and not in pastel colors with frilly shirts.

It is going to be important as we move forward in international broadcasting that sports figures be able to speak understandable and expressive English. The reason is that, as Avathar writes, you need some drama in the lives of your players for a sport to catch on. Dare one mention the WWWF? A cleaned up version of that act is what you need.

It has always puzzled me why sports figures can’t bet on themselves to win, or on other people to win. Let me just point out, however, that only a couple of months ago Britain had some huge scandal about a player who had been throwing matches. So my Sirius radio in my car, set to the BBC World Service, told me at least.

 

[Scaramouche]

What snooker managed to do was appeal to a broad demographic - virtually everyone could find something to take out of it. And everyone had access to a table...

While guys like Jimmy White and Alex Higgins played in workers clubs, in North America snooker is found in some very snooty private clubs:

New York Athletic Club
York Club in Toronto
Terminal Club in Vancouver
McGill Faculty Club in Montreal

Snooker tables appear in all their web sites