American Straight Pool Championship - Oct 19th to 23rd *free* live streaming

[sjm]

I'm sure this will start a ruckus.., the commentators were talking how this field is without question the strongest field for a 14.1 tournament... EVER.... go...

No need for a ruckus, but whoever made this comment isn't very well informed. If you go back 40 years, you had to contend with all of these to win the toughest 14.1 titles:

Mike Sigel, Steve Mizerak, Nick Varner, Dallas West, Allen Hopkins, Irving Crane, Lou Butera, Jim Rempe, Danny DiLiberto, Ray Martin, Luther Lassiter, Jimmy Moore, Joe Balsis. Yup, that's thirteen guys who are now in the BCA Hall of Fame, and all of them could have been inducted on their straight pool accomplishments alone. Of course, such fields also included the likes of Pete Margo, Pat McGown, Larry Lisciotti, Dick Lane, Tom Jennings, Jack Colavita, Pat Fleming, Richie Florence and many other confirmed world beaters in the straight pool discipline.

Not many in this year's field have major credentials in the straight pool discipline, and comparing this group to those found in the early 1980's is truly time wasted. That said, this is a very elite field that will produce a very worthy champion.

 

[lfigueroa]

No need for a ruckus, but whoever made this comment isn't very well informed. If you go back 40 years, you had to contend with all of these to win the toughest 14.1 titles:

Mike Sigel, Steve Mizerak, Nick Varner, Dallas West, Allen Hopkins, Irving Crane, Lou Butera, Jim Rempe, Danny DiLiberto, Ray Martin, Luther Lassiter, Jimmy Moore, Joe Balsis. Yup, that's thirteen guys who are now in the BCA Hall of Fame, and all of them could have been inducted on their straight pool accomplishments alone. Of course, such fields also included the likes of Pete Margo, Pat McGown, Larry Lisciotti, Dick Lane, Tom Jennings, Jack Colavita, Pat Fleming, Richie Florence and many other confirmed world beaters in the straight pool discipline.

Not many in this year's field have major credentials in the straight pool discipline, and comparing this group to those found in the early 1980's is truly time wasted. That said, this is a very elite field that will produce a very worthy champion.

Baloney.

Times and the game have moved on. Yes, there were a good number of fields in the past with unimpeachable credentials. However, just as in 9ball and 1pocket: the ball striking, the level of strategy, and the pure talent of the players in this field are on a superior level. Is there some dead talent in the field -- of course. But there are enough thoroughbreds to say -- as a dyed in the wool 14.1 aficionado -- that the field today is superior to what they were in the past. And they are playing on tougher equipment.

To say otherwise is to be stuck in the past and a case of pure denial.

Lou Figueroa

 

[sjm]

I mean, every snooker century and 147 is invalid/pointless according to this argument because it was not relevant for deciding the winner of the game.

Baloney.

Times and the game have moved on. Yes, there were a good number of fields in the past with unimpeachable credentials. However, just as in 9ball and 1pocket: the ball striking, the level of strategy, and the pure talent of the players in this field are on a superior level. Is there some dead talent in the field -- of course. But there are enough thoroughbreds to say -- as a dyed in the wool 14.1 aficionado -- that the field today is superior to what they were in the past. And they are playing on tougher equipment.

To say otherwise is to be stuck in the past and a case of pure denial.

Lou Figueroa

I suspect our views on this are far more similar than you sense here, Lou.

Agreed that today's cueists are a full cut above those of yesteryear. It is only because the current generation, for the most part, doesn't even play straight pool that it's a novelty game in this era. Straight pool itself hasn't moved on one iota. In the golden age, when the game was played on slow, nappy cloth with composition balls and rails of lower quality than those of today, it was a different game, as I think you are suggesting.

The old guard, save just a few, would have been demolished by this generation of cueists at nine ball and one pocket.

In short, I agree for the most part with what you've written.

 

[buckshotshoey]

Baloney.

Times and the game have moved on. Yes, there were a good number of fields in the past with unimpeachable credentials. However, just as in 9ball and 1pocket: the ball striking, the level of strategy, and the pure talent of the players in this field are on a superior level. Is there some dead talent in the field -- of course. But there are enough thoroughbreds to say -- as a dyed in the wool 14.1 aficionado -- that the field today is superior to what they were in the past. And they are playing on tougher equipment.

To say otherwise is to be stuck in the past and a case of pure denial.

Lou Figueroa

Now I know you're an old fart like I am. Surely you have to remember this...

 

[jay helfert]

No need for a ruckus, but whoever made this comment isn't very well informed. If you go back 40 years, you had to contend with all of these to win the toughest 14.1 titles:

Mike Sigel, Steve Mizerak, Nick Varner, Dallas West, Allen Hopkins, Irving Crane, Lou Butera, Jim Rempe, Danny DiLiberto, Ray Martin, Luther Lassiter, Jimmy Moore, Joe Balsis. Yup, that's thirteen guys who are now in the BCA Hall of Fame, and all of them could have been inducted on their straight pool accomplishments alone. Of course, such fields also included the likes of Pete Margo, Pat McGown, Larry Lisciotti, Dick Lane, Tom Jennings, Jack Colavita, Pat Fleming, Richie Florence and many other confirmed world beaters in the straight pool discipline.

Not many in this year's field have major credentials in the straight pool discipline, and comparing this group to those found in the early 1980's is truly time wasted. That said, this is a very elite field that will produce a very worthy champion.

That's a far stronger field of Straight Pool players than could possibly be amassed today. This is one game where I would say that the current generation has not surpassed the last great era of 14.1 players. These guys really knew how to play the game and that level of safety play is missing from the arsenal of the current crop who only know how to run balls. They wouldn't like it so much if they never got a shot!

I'll take the old guys here!

P.S. You left out Cisero Murphy. He was definitely one of the best ever.

 

[sjm]

That's a far stronger field of Straight Pool players than could possibly be amassed today. This is one game where I would say that the current generation has not surpassed the last great era of 14.1 players. These guys really knew how to play the game and that level of safety play is missing from the arsenal of the current crop who only know how to run balls. They wouldn't like it so much if they never got a shot!

I'll take the old guys here!

P.S. You left out Cisero Murphy. He was definitely one of the best ever.

Good call, although I think (but won't say I'm sure) that Cisero, whose best straight pool was played in the late 1960s. had largely retired from competition by 1981, which is the time I chose to reflect upon. Believe it or not, another guy who tried his hand in the World 14.1 Championships back then was the very colorful UJ Puckett, but he was past his prime. Guys like Grady Matthews, Mike Zuglan, Bobby Hunter and Oliver Ortmann weren't even on the scene yet.

Also, I should have included Jimmy Fusco, runnerup to Steve Mizerak in the 1983 world 14.1 Championship. Man. those were tough fields!

 

[VarmintKong]

A separation between practice and competition is how it has been always been done in every sport and how it is done in every sport today, except in pool, and specifically in straight pool, for any play that goes beyond the end of a match is practice, as it has no bearing on the outcome of the match.

Yes, that's how it should be done, not because that's how it has always been done, but because there is a difference between practice and competition. Even the BCA recognizes this, which is why they have a separate record for highest practice/exhibition run to go along with the record in competition.

Perhaps we need a new category called "highest hybrid run", meaning a run that occurs partly in competition and partly in practice.

Instead of a big money match in 9 or 10 ball to 150, I would like to see a race in 14.1 to 1200. The best straight pool player vs the worlds top rotation player would be kewl.

 

[sjm]

Instead of a big money match in 9 or 10 ball to 150, I would like to see a race in 14.1 to 1200. The best straight pool player vs the worlds top rotation player would be kewl.

Count me in. I know I'd enjoy it, as long as it was spread out over several days.

 

[markjames]

ok sorry cuescore dot com fixed the typo, no tie

 

[VarmintKong]

Lot of talk about whether or not run after win should count towards high run.

I’ve noticed that when you watch the iStream on YouTube, the beginning is the players warm up. Hypothetical:

-SVB begin his warm up, he sets up a break shot and proceeds to run 15 straight racks,210, before the match begins.

-He gets opening break and makes a called shot! From that point he runs out his 125.

-He decides to continue on, makes the final ball(126) and runs 15 more racks before missing his next break shot.

How do you count it?
A.-125
B.-210+126+210=546
C.-126+210=336

If you count the shots after a win, wouldn’t the shots before carry the same weight? If the shots before the match don’t count, why would the shots after?

 

[AtLarge]

... Speaking as somebody who has attended 11 WPA sanctioned World 14.1 Championships (1976, 1977, 1978, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2010) in person, ...

Stu, as I pointed out in another thread earlier this year, the WPA didn't exist until 1987, North America (BCA) didn't join it until 1990, their first world event was in 1990 (9-Ball), and their first sanctioned straight pool event was in 2006. You then suggested that maybe the pre-WPA events that are widely recognized as world championships should be called "fully sanctioned" rather than WPA sanctioned.

 

[jasonlaus]

That's a far stronger field of Straight Pool players than could possibly be amassed today. This is one game where I would say that the current generation has not surpassed the last great era of 14.1 players. These guys really knew how to play the game and that level of safety play is missing from the arsenal of the current crop who only know how to run balls. They wouldn't like it so much if they never got a shot!

I'll take the old guys here!

P.S. You left out Cisero Murphy. He was definitely one of the best ever.

Hows that working out for the "movers" in 1 pocket? They're getting demolished by the Likes of Filler

 

[skogstokig]

filler vs alex p was a good one. that's the playing speed i like. filler ran 125 and out in a fluid pace. good commentary by bobby c.

i get what some people say about stream quality, but i think a lot would be achieved by better lighting at the stream table. the angle is perfect imo. it's a step up from last time when they filmed from the kitchen end of the table. and it's free, too.

 

[jay helfert]

Hows that working out for the "movers" in 1 pocket? They're getting demolished by the Likes of Filler

Far different game than Straight Pool and by now the new guard has had a chance to play a lot of it, so they've learned. Straight Pool not so much, although I would have to agree that the fire power of this new generation would be pretty hard to overcome. The old guard would just have to keep them off the table.

 

[jasonlaus]

Far different game than Straight Pool and by now the new guard has had a chance to play a lot of it, so they've learned. Straight Pool not so much, although I would have to agree that the fire power of this new generation would be pretty hard to overcome. The old guard would just have to keep them off the table.

A lot of the Euros grew up playing straight pool, they seem to be having a good showing at this event.

I'd like to see the young guys play on the same equipment as the 70's and 80's just to get their thoughts on the differences.

 

[kling&allen]

I'd like to see the young guys play on the same equipment as the 70's and 80's just to get their thoughts on the differences.

Or 1930s. I haven't looked at any data but im shocked at the the number of runs in this tournament. Many of the matches seem to be 125 to < 30.

 

[Dimeball]

Much respect to us long in the tooth guys and everyones comments here... but I'm telling ya, you put SVB, Alex, Dennis, Filler, Shaw, etc... on those old school 5" and bigger pockets and easier tables, I don't care what field from the 80's, 40's, 27's, 95'ers, it doesn't matter, the cats today will crush them once it's said and done, all of them. Today's athletes, in every single sport period, are superior to yesterday's. This is complete and utter fact. Just quit it man, grab a pedialyte, an enjoy.

 

[skogstokig]

Or 1930s. I haven't looked at any data but im shocked at the the number of runs in this tournament. Many of the matches seem to be 125 to < 30.

yep, lots of 125 and out. and some year ago i remember they were sceptical on having this event played on diamonds..

bobby c said in the commentary that filler runs 200 (and stops there) on a daily basis playing on 4 1/8 pockets. that's just discouraging to hear about lol

 

[garczar]

A lot of the Euros grew up playing straight pool, they seem to be having a good showing at this event.

I'd like to see the young guys play on the same equipment as the 70's and 80's just to get their thoughts on the differences.

Today's players would run HUGE packages on those older bucket tables.

 

[jasonlaus]

Today's players would run HUGE packages on those older bucket tables.

That is my thought also