Analyze This (3)

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CueAndMe

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This was created by using the 8-ball break button on the Wei and removing 7 balls without too much thought. I hope I'm not clogging the AZ pipeline with these posts, but here's another layout.
What may be interesting, besides come up with the way each of us would play it, would be to come up with as many different legitimate ways to play it as possible. That's what I was doing on my own yesterday with layout (2). It was a great exercise.
Jeff

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bluepepper said:
This was created by using the 8-ball break button on the Wei and removing 7 balls without too much thought. I hope I'm not clogging the AZ pipeline with these posts, but here's another layout.
What may be interesting, besides come up with the way each of us would play it, would be to come up with as many different legitimate ways to play it as possible. That's what I was doing on my own yesterday with layout (2). It was a great exercise.
Jeff

CueTable Help

Click to expand...

1 top right corner,6 in the bottom side pocket,8 top left corner,3 in the top side pocket,9 in the top corner,2 in the bottom side, 4 in the bottom corner and shape on the 10.
 
bluepepper said:
... What may be interesting, besides come up with the way each of us would play it, would be to come up with as many different legitimate ways to play it as possible. ...
Click to expand...
An excellent point. I found four or five and the order would depend on how I landed on each ball. If I had to choose one order at the start and stick with it, I would say 1 8 3 9 2 6 4, but that could change if I got perfect position on a ball.

Another way to ask the question is what order minimizes the movement of the cue ball from object ball contact to position point. The best solution would be a series of stop shots which has zero movement after object ball contact on each shot, more or less regardless of the length of the shots. Cranfield lauds Greenleaf for being a master of this technique. I'm not sure what order that would be.
 
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I like the 1 top right corner, 8 top left corner, 2 bottom left corner, 9 top left corner, 3 top side, 6 bottom right corner, 4 bottom left corner. I believe this pattern will net least amount of cue ball travel for the last 3 balls.
 
This presents a rather random lay of the balls and to a large extent is a challenge of open table execution as much as accepted straight pool pattern play. There are three decent break ball possiblities, namely the 10, the 2 in the bottom side pocket and the nine.
Except for a top player, finding the perfect angle on each shot of an imagined pattern is certainly not assured. More than likely, as Mr. Jewett alludes, there is some chance, that depending on the success of each shot, one could change plans mid-sequence. Accordingly, any of the three best break balls could be left for last as a result of how your sequence plays out.
 
I like the 2 as my breakout ball, getting there as follows:
1 top right
6 bottom side
8 top left
4 bottom left
10 bottom left
9 top right
3 top side
2 top left with breakout.
 
I like the 2 as my breakout ball, getting there as follows:
1 top right
6 bottom side
...
Click to expand...
Maybe I'm seeing the angles wrong, but the 2 in corner pocket as a break shot is very hard to make work well. If I'm forced to use the 2, I'd play it in the side pocket.

Some have suggested the 1-6 as the start of the run. You have to get a very good angle on the 6 to play it in the side and hold the cue ball for any particular next ball. I assume you are playing one-cushion shape off the head rail. If so, you will be crossing your position line. If you want to go two rails in either direction, you might be able to get a natural angle to the 6 at the expense of complicating the shot.

I do not like the 1-6 as a start because I'm likely to need to change the plan immediately. On the other hand, if I try for the 1-8 and the cue ball gets perfect on the 6, I may accept the good roll and change my mind, but my starting plan will be a way that seems fairly likely to succeed.
 
Thanks for your comments Bob, I see what you are saying about the 1-6 but my thinking was if I did roll to far to make the 6 I could change to the 8 (I guess we are thinking the same but different here). As for the 2 as the break shot I have always had good results from this angle maybe just a personal preference. I respect your opinion though and might rethink this. Thanks again.
 
Marop said:
I like the 1 top right corner, 8 top left corner, 2 bottom left corner, 9 top left corner, 3 top side, 6 bottom right corner, 4 bottom left corner. I believe this pattern will net least amount of cue ball travel for the last 3 balls.
Click to expand...

I like that. And I agree with Bob that the 1,6 to start is not predictable enough coming off of the end rail. Like nuklhd, I like high break balls, but the 2 appears too high to carom the cueball naturally into the stack. So I only see the 10 as a decent break ball. And as far as key balls go, the 4 is a classic, but it may be hard to fall on without the 6 as the ball before it.

Just for variety, what about this. I doubt I would play it this way, but since off of the cushion from the 4, you can easily get to either the 3 or 8 dead straight with lots of margin for error, it may be an option. And if you don't get good shape on the 4 from the 9, you can go back to the 8,6,4 plan:

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nuklhd said:
... As for the 2 as the break shot I have always had good results from this angle maybe just a personal preference. ...
Click to expand...
I think it is probably a matter of how the balls appear on the Wei table. Note that the two ball is more or less directly between the head spot and the side pocket, and about nine inches (my hand span) from a ball that has been spotted. Put a real two ball there on a real table and see how it looks to you for a break shot. I'll try to do the same.
 
Hi Bob, I will try that, but it seems to me to be more like 6" as the 2 ball is about half way between the headspot and the first diamond up on the short rail left, although being forward of the headspot would add maybe 1/2" to an 1" because of the angle. If I am not mistaken the diamonds on a 4 x 8 are 12" apart and I think this is a 4x8, but I may be wrong as I am not to familiar with the "Wei" table. Whatever the case I will certainly try it. The other thing about this spread that occurred to me was I have rarley seen and normaly wouldn't hope to end up with the balls spread this far apart. Your thoughts. Also I would really appreciate your opinion of my answer to Analyze this (2). Thanks again for your insight.
 
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nuklhd said:
... If I am not mistaken the diamonds on a 4 x 8 are 12" apart and I think this is a 4x8, but I may be wrong as I am not to familiar with the "Wei" table. Whatever the case I will certainly try it. ,,,
Click to expand...
I just looked at the 9' table on Wei's main software page, and the diagram here is for that table, but if I measure the table by freezing balls in a line, I get 12 inches between diamonds or maybe a little less. I agree that the 2 ball is only about six inches from a ball that is spotted. In any case, I will try looking at a ball that is on that line. 12 vs. 12.5 per diamond shouldn't make that much difference.
 
I will post my sequence as I would play it without reading the comments which could influence my perseption of that position. And then you could correct me or I will see where I was wrong after I read the comments.
So, defining the problems first. The 1-ball is the farthest from the rack area and therefore should be dealt with asap, especially provided we have an ideal capability to start with it. Now, thinking backwards from the break ball, which must be the 10 as it is the only one suitable for that here.
4 is a key ball to the break ball, 6 is a key ball to key ball (it is pretty easy to play position on the 4 from the 6, no matter which of 4 pockets available to play the 6).
3, when is free of the nearby 8-ball, goes to the side easily (or top right corner if you prefer), so that one I choose to be played before the 6. 2-ball is the one I choose to pocket after the 8, because I will come back to the 3 from the 9. 2-ball leads to the 3 naturally with a stop shot but I don't like distance the cueball would have to travel from the 9 to the 6, though this option could be good as well.
Sorry about my Wei layout being a bit messy, not enough time spent trying it.
Once again, my sequence is 1-8-2-9-3-6-4-10

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whoa! I just browsed through the comments and I'm proud of myself: my judgement was close to Bob Jewett's, but even more, it is just exactly the same as Bill Marop suggested!!! whoo!!! :)
 
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Bob Jewett said:
I just looked at the 9' table on Wei's main software page, and the diagram here is for that table, but if I measure the table by freezing balls in a line, I get 12 inches between diamonds or maybe a little less. I agree that the 2 ball is only about six inches from a ball that is spotted. In any case, I will try looking at a ball that is on that line. 12 vs. 12.5 per diamond shouldn't make that much difference.
Click to expand...

Are there different size Wei tables? When I create and edit these patterns I use the full screen version. It says it's a 9 foot table on the website.
Also, I wonder if looking at these setups with a curved screen makes a difference. I'm using a flat screen assuming everyone sees it the same way, but this may not be the case.

Jeff
 
Vahmurka said:
I will post my sequence as I would play it without reading the comments which could influence my perseption of that position. And then you could correct me or I will see where I was wrong after I read the comments.
So, defining the problems first. The 1-ball is the farthest from the rack area and therefore should be dealt with asap, especially provided we have an ideal capability to start with it. Now, thinking backwards from the break ball, which must be the 10 as it is the only one suitable for that here.
4 is a key ball to the break ball, 6 is a key ball to key ball (it is pretty easy to play position on the 4 from the 6, no matter which of 4 pockets available to play the 6).
3, when is free of the nearby 8-ball, goes to the side easily (or top right corner if you prefer), so that one I choose to be played before the 6. 2-ball is the one I choose to pocket after the 8, because I will come back to the 3 from the 9. 2-ball leads to the 3 naturally with a stop shot but I don't like distance the cueball would have to travel from the 9 to the 6, though this option could be good as well.
Sorry about my Wei layout being a bit messy, not enough time spent trying it.
Once again, my sequence is 1-8-2-9-3-6-4-10

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whoa! I just browsed through the comments and I'm proud of myself: my judgement was close to Bob Jewett's, but even more, it is just exactly the same as Bill Marop suggested!!! whoo!!! :)
Click to expand...

I really appreciate how you shared your thought process with us. And I like the way you were thinking too. Nice run.
Jeff
 
Here's another option.1,8,9,2,3,6,4
I messed up the html wei again by not saving the first page before moving on, so it's a big URL link.

You don't have to travel so far off of the 8-ball, but I figured there's plenty of insurance if I fall wrong. I chose this rather than a stop angle on the 8-ball, because it allows me to come off of the 9 two rails into the 2-ball bottom side pocket angle. This may be a little overthinking, as I'm prone to do. But the order of ball seems like a good one either way.
Jeff

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AGaX3BGOk3CRGm4DWwn1FBYK3HNvs3IWKe4JRRs1PAMf2UGaX2UcYo1kAMf2kDwS2kGbk2kOFR@2AcYo3BGOk3CRGm4DWwn1FBYK3HNvs3IWKe4JRRs2POFR3cNvs3cbjr2kOFR3kNWc4kMUq@2AcYo3BGOk3CRGm4DWwn1FBYK3Hbjr3IWKe4JRRs4PMUq3dWKe3ddWl4kMUq3kTYb3kThl3kbBd3kQsh@2AcYo3BGOk3CRGm4DWwn1FBYK3Hbjr3IdWl4JRRs3PQsh3VGOk1VeWD3kQsh3kIKr3kCvF@2AcYo1BeWD3CRGm4DWwn1FBYK3Hbjr3IdWl4JRRs3PCvF3WRGm2WdQA3kCvF3kOlt3kUAB@2AcYo1BeWD2CdQA4DWwn1FBYK3Hbjr3IdWl4JRRs3PUAB1aBYK1acht3kUAB1kARw1kIiK@2AcYo1BeWD2CdQA4DWwo1Fcht3Hbjr3IdWl4JRRs1PIiK4XWwo4Xbbs1kIiK4kWoY4kbgU4kUKI@2AcYo1BeWD2CdQA4Dbbs1Fcht3Hbjr3IdWl4JRRs4PUKI@
 
A lot of people are picking the 6 as the key to the key. It is lined up straight at it and I suppose that makes it a good key to key ball.

However, coming off the nine is easy to get on the 2 in the side as another key to the 4 which has the advantage of being closer to the 4.

I would probably have tried to get on the 6 immediately and if I had, I would be done with that side of the table.
 
dmgwalsh said:
A lot of people are picking the 6 as the key to the key. It is lined up straight at it and I suppose that makes it a good key to key ball.

However, coming off the nine is easy to get on the 2 in the side as another key to the 4 which has the advantage of being closer to the 4.

I would probably have tried to get on the 6 immediately and if I had, I would be done with that side of the table.
Click to expand...

I see your point. I guess the only reason to use the 6 as the key to the key would be the presence of the 3 or 8 right near the upper side. But the 6 is pretty distant and lonely. And it's probably not too hard to get on right after the 1 as long as you have the 3 or 8 as insurance.
You could even do this and have the 2 as a backup:

CueTable Help

 
bluepepper said:
Here's another option.1,8,9,2,3,6,4
Click to expand...
yes, and this one could be more natural in terms of shape than the one I suggested along with others
 
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