Antique pool books, and new reprints

[book collector]

Did you ever notice how poor the copying is on most of the antique books? Misspelled or missing letters all over the place. It has improved some over the years ,but it is still lacking quite a bit.
Here is some information, maybe one of you can use, to make it better. I should have passed this on, when I first realized it 25 years ago, but I just kept forgetting it, whenever I was talking to someone, who might have used it.
Some of the problems are actual differences in the way a word was spelled 100 to 200 years ago vs now.
The main reason though , was that the printing was done by individual pieces of 'type". Each letter is a single lead piece that was placed on the end of a piece of hardwood at "type high" then it was placed into a "stick" a slotted piece of {at first wood , then changed to steel} used to hold everything in place. The type was all made to be very close to the same height, but the problem occurred when the type was being pressed against the sheet of paper, in the actual printing process. An expert could set the press up with just enough "packing" behind the impression sheet , to just kiss the paper and leave a beautiful smudge free image . On the other hand , a worker with less skill would always add more packing , until there were no voids or missing text and call it good.
This invariably caused the type in some areas to either dent the paper or even smash through it . That is what causes the new optical equipment to make so many errors or leave blank spots.
If you have a book printed before 1853, it was probably printed this way and will have the telltale marks of some letters being smashed into the paper further than others.

 

[middleofnowhere]

Did you ever notice how poor the copying is on most of the antique books? Misspelled or missing letters all over the place. It has improved some over the years ,but it is still lacking quite a bit.
Here is some information, maybe one of you can use, to make it better. I should have passed this on, when I first realized it 25 years ago, but I just kept forgetting it, whenever I was talking to someone, who might have used it.
Some of the problems are actual differences in the way a word was spelled 100 to 200 years ago vs now.
The main reason though , was that the printing was done by individual pieces of 'type". Each letter is a single lead piece that was placed on the end of a piece of hardwood at "type high" then it was placed into a "stick" a slotted piece of {at first wood , then changed to steel} used to hold everything in place. The type was all made to be very close to the same height, but the problem occurred when the type was being pressed against the sheet of paper, in the actual printing process. An expert could set the press up with just enough "packing" behind the impression sheet , to just kiss the paper and leave a beautiful smudge free image . On the other hand , a worker with less skill would always add more packing , until there were no voids or missing text and call it good.
This invariably caused the type in some areas to either dent the paper or even smash through it . That is what causes the new optical equipment to make so many errors or leave blank spots.
If you have a book printed before 1853, it was probably printed this way and will have the telltale marks of some letters being smashed into the paper further than others.

I love old books. They don't just sit on the shelf I read them. The other night I was reading
Jack Dempsey, The Idol Of Fistiana. I bought it at a yard sale some years ago.

It is interesting in it has an inscription from Jack Dempsey to a guy whose name I forget. When I looked him up though he was a famous sports writer of the day. The inscription implies the book was a gift from Dempsey.

 

[book collector]

I love old books. They don't just sit on the shelf I read them. The other night I was reading
Jack Dempsey, The Idol Of Fistiana. I bought it at a yard sale some years ago.

It is interesting in it has an inscription from Jack Dempsey to a guy whose name I forget. When I looked him up though he was a famous sports writer of the day. The inscription implies the book was a gift from Dempsey.

Very cool, was it Grantland Rice ?

 

[Richard Kapela]

Did you ever notice how poor the copying is on most of the antique books? Misspelled or missing letters all over the place. It has improved some over the years ,but it is still lacking quite a bit.
Here is some information, maybe one of you can use, to make it better. I should have passed this on, when I first realized it 25 years ago, but I just kept forgetting it, whenever I was talking to someone, who might have used it.
Some of the problems are actual differences in the way a word was spelled 100 to 200 years ago vs now.
The main reason though , was that the printing was done by individual pieces of 'type". Each letter is a single lead piece that was placed on the end of a piece of hardwood at "type high" then it was placed into a "stick" a slotted piece of {at first wood , then changed to steel} used to hold everything in place. The type was all made to be very close to the same height, but the problem occurred when the type was being pressed against the sheet of paper, in the actual printing process. An expert could set the press up with just enough "packing" behind the impression sheet , to just kiss the paper and leave a beautiful smudge free image . On the other hand , a worker with less skill would always add more packing , until there were no voids or missing text and call it good.
This invariably caused the type in some areas to either dent the paper or even smash through it . That is what causes the new optical equipment to make so many errors or leave blank spots.
If you have a book printed before 1853, it was probably printed this way and will have the telltale marks of some letters being smashed into the paper further than others.

I've noticed this in books up to about the 1880s, where I can feel the depressions of each letter into the paper. What happened in 1853 to change that? Does that date apply to books published in the US, or UK, or everywhere?

If you haven't seen this, take a look: http://www.cartersbilliardslibrary.com/. Carter spent a great deal of time cleaning up each and every page, including every diagram, to make a clean reprint. It was truly a labor of love. I haven't seen anyone else go through this much work to make a clean copy. The original plan was to reprint about 10 or so of the older, rarer billiard books. But the demand for this first one was a lot less than he had hoped for.

 

[middleofnowhere]

Very cool, was it Grantland Rice ?

I just looked. It is Al Buck.
My dad knew Grantland Rice by the way. He knew a lot of people. When I was a kid we would have house guests from Louis Prima to Tempest Storm.

My dad was born in Italy in 1890s to put it in context. He was old when I was born. Sometimes I make a reference and people look at me like that was a 90 years ago.

 

[book collector]

I've noticed this in books up to about the 1880s, where I can feel the depressions of each letter into the paper. What happened in 1853 to change that? Does that date apply to books published in the US, or UK, or everywhere?

If you haven't seen this, take a look: http://www.cartersbilliardslibrary.com/. Carter spent a great deal of time cleaning up each and every page, including every diagram, to make a clean reprint. It was truly a labor of love. I haven't seen anyone else go through this much work to make a clean copy. The original plan was to reprint about 10 or so of the older, rarer billiard books. But the demand for this first one was a lot less than he had hoped for.

I would imagine that the old method was still used by smaller print shops for many years after the modern way was started because of the costs of changing equipment. So , I am not surprised that you still feel the type in books in the 1880s. I also think the US and UK were pretty even with the technology.
I consider Carter a friend, although we have never actually met. We have done business together and shared information over quite a few years. Yes, he did a great job , He was one of the people I should have spoken to about the copying problems, but I just never thought of it when we would talk, or I certainly would have. He may have already known anyway. Whoever printed his book did a great job.
I understand the last part also.
I kept having people tell me they would love to have some billiard posters to choose from that were not dogs playing cards or pool or Bugs Bunny with a cue.
Being a printer I made some reproductions of 1800s tournaments with the players pictures on them, and a couple of the rooms of the time, with players in them.
There were a total of 7 different ones 24 x 36 and printed on a beautiful parchment paper that cost me a dollar a sheet. I charged 10.00 each and you could buy the set of 7 for 55.00 and I shipped anywhere in the US for 7.00. The people who bought them always seemed very happy.
I had a no questions asked 100% return policy, and I never got any sent back
But a lot of people who didn't buy them , acted like I was a robber baron.
I didn't do it for the money to begin with, and it didn't make one bit of difference in my life style, to lose the money I had invested in it.
I did realize I can't figure people out, they love pool but won't spend 10.00 for a nice poster , but they will go every day and buy a 5 to 10 dollar cup of coffee they pee out 20 minutes later. It's their money. but it makes zero sense to me.
Also , they all want someone to spend hours copying a magazine or book for them for free , rather than spend 8 dollars and buy one outright.

 

[book collector]

I just looked. It is Al Buck.
My dad knew Grantland Rice by the way. He knew a lot of people. When I was a kid we would have house guests from Louis Prima to Tempest Storm.

My dad was born in Italy in 1890s to put it in context. He was old when I was born. Sometimes I make a reference and people look at me like that was a 90 years ago.

Wow, that must have been exciting to have those famous people around. I have surrounded myself with the things of yesteryear since I was a young man , sometimes I forget that almost no one knows what I am referring to . It happened 100 years ago or more.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... If you have a book printed before 1853, it was probably printed this way and will have the telltale marks of some letters being smashed into the paper further than others.

Was that when the Linotype machine came in?

 

[MmmSharp]

I would imagine that the old method was still used by smaller print shops for many years after the modern way was started because of the costs of changing equipment. So , I am not surprised that you still feel the type in books in the 1880s. I also think the US and UK were pretty even with the technology.
I consider Carter a friend, although we have never actually met. We have done business together and shared information over quite a few years. Yes, he did a great job , He was one of the people I should have spoken to about the copying problems, but I just never thought of it when we would talk, or I certainly would have. He may have already known anyway. Whoever printed his book did a great job.
I understand the last part also.
I kept having people tell me they would love to have some billiard posters to choose from that were not dogs playing cards or pool or Bugs Bunny with a cue.
Being a printer I made some reproductions of 1800s tournaments with the players pictures on them, and a couple of the rooms of the time, with players in them.
There were a total of 7 different ones 24 x 36 and printed on a beautiful parchment paper that cost me a dollar a sheet. I charged 10.00 each and you could buy the set of 7 for 55.00 and I shipped anywhere in the US for 7.00. The people who bought them always seemed very happy.
I had a no questions asked 100% return policy, and I never got any sent back
But a lot of people who didn't buy them , acted like I was a robber baron.
I didn't do it for the money to begin with, and it didn't make one bit of difference in my life style, to lose the money I had invested in it.
I did realize I can't figure people out, they love pool but won't spend 10.00 for a nice poster , but they will go every day and buy a 5 to 10 dollar cup of coffee they pee out 20 minutes later. It's their money. but it makes zero sense to me.
Also , they all want someone to spend hours copying a magazine or book for them for free , rather than spend 8 dollars and buy one outright.

Any of those posters still around ? I bet you might some folks here interested. I probably would be one.

 

[book collector]

I wasn't sure when the linotype machines came in, but Google says 1886 , thats earlier than I thought. Linotype was much superior to handset type in terms of speed , but it is basically the same thing , but { line o {f} type} is molten metal, cast in individual characters that flowed together into lines of type, as a sentence, instead of being single characters.
It was still subject to do some damage to the paper , for the same reason { impression cylinder packing.} Although much less because it was set in slugs, so there were many less moveable parts in the equation. Lithography and offset lithography are similar but not the same . Lithography is the transfer of an image from a medium like a plate or stone or glass to a sheet of paper using pressure . Offset lithography uses film to make a metal plate to pick up ink from a roller and then transfer it to a rubber cylinder and then have the paper pressed against that.
You end up with tolerances of mils instead of 1/16th of an inch or more Sorry for the lengthy description, but there are a few ways to accomplish the same thing, and I am trying to be as accurate mas possible.. The invention of celluloid was also instrumental in the beginnings of lithography. The first film bases were celluloid. In my effort to be accurate I keep looking at google and wikipedia to check the dates, and none of it fits each other. I have a feeling the discrepancies are confusion between the progress of lithography, vs offset lithography, I am not sure.

 

[book collector]

Any of those posters still around ? I bet you might some folks here interested. I probably would be one.

I do , I'll try to get you some pics.

 

[Poolplaya9]

I do , I'll try to get you some pics.

You should post the pics in this thread since requested and for historical and general interest, but also create a for sale thread in that section that lists all the sale particulars and of course has all the pics too, and then link to your for sale thread here as well. As MmmSharp said, I'm guessing they will get some interest from a few people as they stumble across them and see them.

 

[jay helfert]

I just looked. It is Al Buck.
My dad knew Grantland Rice by the way. He knew a lot of people. When I was a kid we would have house guests from Louis Prima to Tempest Storm.

My dad was born in Italy in 1890s to put it in context. He was old when I was born. Sometimes I make a reference and people look at me like that was a 90 years ago.

My father, who was born in 1911, used to get his haircut in the same barbershop that Orville Wright went to in Dayton. This was in the early to mid 1940's. I was born in 1944 and I do know my dad took me everywhere with him by the time I could walk. For all I know I may have seen Orville Wright while he was still alive. In the course of two lifetimes we have gone from the earliest flying machines to space stations! I wonder what it will be like 500 or a thousand years from now. And how they will view this current generation of people. For all our techological advances I'm sure the people who are here 1,000 years from now will see us as rather primitive, but clever.

 

[ideologist]

My father, who was born in 1911, used to get his haircut in the same barbershop that Orville Wright went to in Dayton. This was in the early to mid 1940's. I was born in 1944 and I do know my dad took me everywhere with him by the time I could walk. For all I know I may have seen Orville Wright while he was still alive. In the course of two lifetimes we have gone from the earliest flying machines to space stations! I wonder what it will be like 500 or a thousand years from now. And how they will view this current generation of people. For all our techological advances I'm sure the people who are here 1,000 years from now will see us as rather primitive, but clever.

The people today have steadily made the environment uninhabitable and destroyed society with ridiculous bickering. If anyone is left in 1000 years, they will probably look at us with complete hatred for squandering a golden era

 

[pt109]

Fascinating....and, Book Collector, I’m a customer for those prints.

 

[Gravey39]

When I was around 10-11 I used to have a book by mike massey that would teach trick shots. I’ve always wanted to get a new copy of that book. I made a lot of money in the pool halls when I was 13 from that book.

 

[Bob Jewett]

When I was around 10-11 I used to have a book by mike massey that would teach trick shots. I’ve always wanted to get a new copy of that book. I made a lot of money in the pool halls when I was 13 from that book.

It's not exactly an antique, but here it is. You can get it online for under $10 delivered. A recent book about trick shots that's far more in the "antique" line is Robert Byrne's which goes into the history of a lot of trick shots.

For a real antique book on trick shots, here is a book by "Stancliffe" called "Fun on the Billiard Table" from about 120 years ago:

There is also a recent reprint of Joe Hood's book on trick shots (1910?) that you can get for about $30:

 

[Gravey39]

It's not exactly an antique, but here it is. You can get it online for under $10 delivered. A recent book about trick shots that's far more in the "antique" line is Robert Byrne's which goes into the history of a lot of trick shots.

For a real antique book on trick shots, here is a book by "Stancliffe" called "Fun on the Billiard Table" from about 120 years ago:

There is also a recent reprint of Joe Hood's book on trick shots (1910?) that you can get for about $30:

That’s awesome. I’ll have to get all three