Any experience with Schmelke Laminanted LD shafts

tjlmbklr

tjlmbklr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Edit: I decided to go with the MeucciPro, 31". I almost was tempted when I was private messaged and offered a 32" Jacoby Hybrid for a reasonable price. But feel free to keep this convo going, we can all learn. I found most of my web searches brought me to AZB. I love this forum!

I am very close to pulling the trigger and having Schmelke build me my custom 61" cue. I can save a lot of time if I use their PTO Laminated shaft and have them put a 1/2” XTC ferrule to make it LD.

It will not only be far less money than my alternative, a Meucci Pro shaft or a Jacoby Hybrid or Ultra.

Just looking to see if any has anyone experience with them, how do they hit, and how LD are they?

Thanks!
 
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IMHO if you are sinking money into a custom 61 inch cue, don't compromise on the shaft. That's the business end of the cue. Get the shaft you really want.

At the same time, I would probably get a Schmelke shaft with it anyway. Just sort of automatically. Just because I like original sets.

I only once hit a few balls with their laminated shaft. It wasn't memorable. To me that means it wan't bad...and wasn't great. Which is OK. Perhaps someone else can say more.

Basically I am saying I would get the shaft. "Upgrade" to another later if you like.

Unless somebody can justify really trashing on the Schmelke shafts, I would just do it. :smile:

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Chopdoc said:
IMHO if you are sinking money into a custom 61 inch cue, don't compromise on the shaft. That's the business end of the cue. Get the shaft you really want.

At the same time, I would probably get a Schmelke shaft with it anyway. Just sort of automatically. Just because I like original sets.

I only once hit a few balls with their laminated shaft. It wasn't memorable. To me that means it wan't bad...and wasn't great. Which is OK. Perhaps someone else can say more.

Basically I am saying I would get the shaft. "Upgrade" to another later if you like.

Unless somebody can justify really trashing on the Schmelke shafts, I would just do it. :smile:

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Thanks for the advice, but getting the shaft I really want is hard when I only know what the manufactures claim and Schmelke doesn't rave about theirs, but I have read a few things on here about them that are good. I like Meucci only because Bob has been known for decades as an innovator. That and he is one of the few that sells a 31" length LD shaft.

The cue Schmelke is building me will be 100% custom, 30" butt and whatever shaft I decide, I haven't told them I want any extra shafts.
 
PTO shaft

tjlmbklr said:
Thanks for the advice, but getting the shaft I really want is hard when I only know what the manufactures claim and Schmelke doesn't rave about theirs, but I have read a few things on here about them that are good. I like Meucci only because Bob has been known for decades as an innovator. That and he is one of the few that sells a 31" length LD shaft.

The cue Schmelke is building me will be 100% custom, 30" butt and whatever shaft I decide, I haven't told them I want any extra shafts.
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I have a PTO 30in shaft . I would say it is not as low deflection as my original predator . That being said , the shaft hits very solid and am enjoying it very much . The biggest issue with Schmelke is getting things straight . I bought a shaft and jump cue..........both showed up with more than acceptable rolls . I played with a crooked cue for years,,,,,lol,,,,,, so for me I can work around it.
 
trophycue said:
I have a PTO 30in shaft . I would say it is not as low deflection as my original predator . That being said , the shaft hits very solid and am enjoying it very much . The biggest issue with Schmelke is getting things straight . I bought a shaft and jump cue..........both showed up with more than acceptable rolls . I played with a crooked cue for years,,,,,lol,,,,,, so for me I can work around it.
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It seems the 'low deflection' talk is a very bias one which is what brings me to this question. I read in other threads it is very LD, but he also said he had it turned to 11.75mm. I requested 12mm, maybe I should go that extra .25

The getting things straight thing kinda scares me, I worry that with a 31" shaft and a 14" taper as I'm looking for may make it tough to get it to roll straight together.

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Shafts and "how LD they are" is extremely personal. You can talk to 10 people and get 15 different answers LOL Only you will be able to tell if you will like the shaft. If you were to ask me what I thought about a 31" shaft I'd say it's junk, I don't like how longer shafts play at all. Had a few 30" shafts and went back to 29" every time after tryign them.

The trick is how to tell you will like it before you actually play with it, along with the cue, joint, tip, etc.. that it comes with. Simple answer, there is no trick, you won't know till you try it. If you have a shaft you like already, get one for the joint of the cue. If you want to try their shaft, then need to take a chance and try it.

As Kung Fu Panda said "there is no secret ingredient". There is no magic in figuring out what you will like by asking others what they like, you can maybe narrow it down into "horrible" and "amazing" and then pick from the amazing pile, but not down to a specific shaft and diameter you will like.

I am on a PC forum and we get questions about keyboard, mice, monitors, etc.. all the time. What is the best keyboard? Well, who knows, people like different feels. One guy was actually trying to find what would be a really bad keyboard to most, he wanted a very soft feel with no feedback, like a laptop keyboard. 95% of people would say that is a bad quality keyboard, but that is what he was after. You can have the strongest shaft, of a fastest video card, those can be measured. You can't measure what someone likes or can play with.
 
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tjlmbklr said:
It seems the 'low deflection' talk is a very bias one which is what brings me to this question. I read in other threads it is very LD, but he also said he had it turned to 11.75mm. I requested 12mm, maybe I should go that extra .25

The getting things straight thing kinda scares me, I worry that with a 31" shaft and a 14" taper as I'm looking for may make it tough to get it to roll straight together.

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Mine is 12.5 , and as requested on the heavy side, 4.5oz . A li'l extra deflection is expected I think. I love the 30in, and would not hesitate to get a 31in . Am only guessing , but I think you would get decent low deflection with 12mm .
 
tjlmbklr said:
I am very close to pulling the trigger and having Schmelke build me my custom 61" cue. I can save a lot of time if I use their PTO Laminated shaft and have them put a 1/2” XTC ferrule to make it LD.

It will not only be far less money than my alternative, a Meucci Pro shaft or a Jacoby Hybrid or Ultra.

Just looking to see if any has anyone experience with them, how do they hit, and how LD are they?

Thanks!
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I had Schmelke make me a custom cue and I had it made because I wanted a full-splice butt to use with a 30" Meucci Pro shaft that I got off of CJ Wiley.

Schmelke did a good job on the cue and the Meucci Pro shaft fit perfectly.

I had them make me one of their shafts, as a backup. I didn't get a LD version shaft, but I got a 1/2" XTC ferrule on it.

The cue I had made can be seen in the following thread:

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=447538
 
A heavy 15 to 17 ply laminated shaft does not become an LD shaft just because the ferrule is a short soft ferrule kind.
This LD hype has gone nuts imo.
 
trophycue said:
Mine is 12.5 , and as requested on the heavy side, 4.5oz . A li'l extra deflection is expected I think. I love the 30in, and would not hesitate to get a 31in . Am only guessing , but I think you would get decent low deflection with 12mm .
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Thanks for the info, I'll take this into consideration during my purchase. I'm just waiting on budget billiards to reply to my email about the Meucci Pro and if they stock a partial blank in 31". I called Meucci direct and they are 4 weeks out. If I. Ant get it in a reasonable time that will be the decision maker, I'll go with the Schmelke laminated shaft.

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JoeyInCali said:
A heavy 15 to 17 ply laminated shaft does not become an LD shaft just because the ferrule is a short soft ferrule kind.
This LD hype has gone nuts imo.
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This is my fear and why I'm still leaning towards the Meucci Pro

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I’ve had about five different Schmelkes with flat laminated shafts. Imo they definitely aren’t heavy. They are a very well made shaft that most people really like the feel of. The last 3 cues I had them make I had them leave the PTO off and most people thought they were Jacoby Hybrid Edge shafts. They play very similar IMO. The flat laminated shafts I had were in different diameters and different ferrules. My favorite combo was a 1/2” XTC ferrule. The last cue I sold had a 30” shaft, 3/8x10 pin, .840 joint, 12.5mm tip, 12” pro taper and weighed 3.9 oz. If you have them make you a 31” shaft with a 14” taper at 12mm it won’t be that heavy. You could always get them to make you a shaft and buy one if you don’t like it. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. I didn’t have any straightness issues at all and I’ve owned a lot of Schmelkes.

The way companies or cue makers get shafts to be low deflection is by taking weight off the end (lowering end mass) of the cue by drilling them out, tapering them thinner, and using lightweight materials. I’m not a fan of ultra low deflection shafts. They don’t have the feel I like. You said in another thread you like to use BHE. A shaft that is low deflection will cause your bridge to be longer. The lower the deflection the longer the natural pivot point. No Cue has no deflection. I have been doing cue repairs for awhile and most of my repairs to ferrules are to the ultra low deflection shafts. All of that stuff they do to the front end of the shaft compromises the integrity of the shaft. Good luck with your purchase. I don’t think you can go wrong with that flat laminated shaft.
 
Landlover said:
I’ve had about five different Schmelkes with flat laminated shafts. Imo they definitely aren’t heavy. They are a very well made shaft that most people really like the feel of. The last 3 cues I had them make I had them leave the PTO off and most people thought they were Jacoby Hybrid Edge shafts. They play very similar IMO. The flat laminated shafts I had were in different diameters and different ferrules. My favorite combo was a 1/2” XTC ferrule. The last cue I sold had a 30” shaft, 3/8x10 pin, .840 joint, 12.5mm tip, 12” pro taper and weighed 3.9 oz. If you have them make you a 31” shaft with a 14” taper at 12mm it won’t be that heavy. You could always get them to make you a shaft and buy one if you don’t like it. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. I didn’t have any straightness issues at all and I’ve owned a lot of Schmelkes.

The way companies or cue makers get shafts to be low deflection is by taking weight off the end (lowering end mass) of the cue by drilling them out, tapering them thinner, and using lightweight materials. I’m not a fan of ultra low deflection shafts. They don’t have the feel I like. You said in another thread you like to use BHE. A shaft that is low deflection will cause your bridge to be longer. The lower the deflection the longer the natural pivot point. No Cue has no deflection. I have been doing cue repairs for awhile and most of my repairs to ferrules are to the ultra low deflection shafts. All of that stuff they do to the front end of the shaft compromises the integrity of the shaft. Good luck with your purchase. I don’t think you can go wrong with that flat laminated shaft.
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The BHE is more of a learning curve that I like the concept, but the jury is still out.

I'm on the fence still with the Meucci but am leaning more towards the laminated the more I hear.

I still consider myself a young and new age player even though I'm 42 and have been playing competitively for 17 years (mostly league) and I'm always looking for the new ideas to help with my game. So with that said I played with a LD in the past on a few cues and like them, for me it's a trade-off for the lack of feel in the hit you get with the a LD shaft vs being able to not be afraid to use the English I need to move the CB around which I really hesitate on and need to get past that. I feel for me LD is my best choice, I just want to make sure I go with the right shaft right away. It took me this long to realize my game really excelled when I started playing with a 60" + cue. My current setup is 61 And the is where I wish to stay, hence the 30/31 split my new cue will have.

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One of my taller buddies liked my cue so much he bought a 62” Schmelke He is 6’7” and is a HUGE guy. He bought two shafts with his that were 31” long. He bought a flat laminated shaft and an OB classic with the same taper. He plays with the flat laminated shaft now because he liked the feel and he did t see much difference in the amount of deflection. Everyone is different though and only you will be able to really know what you like.

I’ve hit a lot of different shafts and in doing repairs, I’ve seen the way different shafts are made to be low deflection. I’m not a fan.
 
Meucci

tjlmbklr said:
What seems to failure to most on them? Bear in mind I only want the shaft.

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The meucci cues I am talking about was mainly the Black dot meucci cues .


Problem was Meucci wasn't keeping their word and wasn't warranting these cues .

Meucci wouldn't warranty their products to their own dealers ..
These cues were falling apart from the factory , shipped to dealers and the dealers were stuck with crap.


Personally after that BS I would never buy another meucci or recommend anyone to buy a meucci .


The whole cue was falling a part .

Shafts delaminating and cracking at the joint , warping ferrule issues .

The butt of the cue the butt sleeve coming loose , the rubber bumper falling off .

The wrap section clear coat cracking .

every where the cue was glued was separating .










I have seen allot of laminated LD shafts fail …………..


I make solid maple shafts because I consider them the best.

Understand Pros get paid to use certain companies equipment .

Efren said no LD shafts for him .

Its all about the player not the cue .

If I was in the cue market ….. I would buy a used custom cue that has remained straight for years.


I should take a photo of all the broken cue shafts I have in my garden holding up my tomato plants .
 
My guess (or hope rather) is the Black Dot being the first of it's kind they had nothing to compare or compete with. Now that the LD game is a competitive world and with Bob M. Sponsoring so many players he may have stepped up his quality.

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tjlmbklr said:
My guess (or hope rather) is the Black Dot being the first of it's kind they had nothing to compare or compete with. Now that the LD game is a competitive world and with Bob M. Sponsoring so many players he may have stepped up his quality.

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Black dot was not the first of it's kind.
That was Meucci's first flat lam shaft.
That after Meucci argued for years, laminated shafts were not consistent.

Flat lams for the most part are the weakest and cheapest among laminated shafts . My late mentor and I bought a few dozens from the old Dufferin factory when they closed . When we got them, we were not impressed by their tone and overall quality. They were relatively heavy because of all that glue .
They were not a stable as conventional shafts . Then again, how stable can each sheet be when they are about 1/15'th of an inch thick ?
And when they are glued, grain orientation is not even a consideration.
They just glue pieces from different sheets together.

Predator was dominating the market when Meucci was forced to market "LD" shafts of his own. That after he already claimed his red dot shafts had less deflection than Predator .
 
tjlmbklr said:
The BHE is more of a learning curve that I like the concept, but the jury is still out.

I'm on the fence still with the Meucci but am leaning more towards the laminated the more I hear.

I still consider myself a young and new age player even though I'm 42 and have been playing competitively for 17 years (mostly league) and I'm always looking for the new ideas to help with my game. So with that said I played with a LD in the past on a few cues and like them, for me it's a trade-off for the lack of feel in the hit you get with the a LD shaft vs being able to not be afraid to use the English I need to move the CB around which I really hesitate on and need to get past that. I feel for me LD is my best choice, I just want to make sure I go with the right shaft right away. It took me this long to realize my game really excelled when I started playing with a 60" + cue. My current setup is 61 And the is where I wish to stay, hence the 30/31 split my new cue will have.

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I didn't start really getting "into" pool until I was 53 years old. I've been told that I am a B player (but I can't see that). You have a lot of pool in front of you. You may change your preferences as you go.

That said, just after I first started getting serious about pool I jumped into the LD shaft foray. Preds, OBs, HXTs and after playing with them for about 10 years, I have gone back to solid maple shafts of about 12.5mm to 12.75"mm diameters.

The LD shafts played okay, but for some odd reason I couldn't really see the supposed LD properties on the pool table (some, yes, but not a lot). That, and the feel/feedback was just not what I wanted. Keep in mind that these are 29" and 30" shafts. I now almost exclusively use a 60" cue (30"/30" split) with solid maple shafts and I am shooting the best pool of my life right now.

I am only telling you this because if you are for sure going to order a Schmelke cue, then if it were me I'd go ahead and get them to make you a solid maple shaft along with whatever else route you choose.

Maniac
 
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