Any pro plays with 13mm shaft?

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Does anybody who believes smaller tips produce more unwanted spin have a theory for why/how they do?

A smaller tip is just a larger tip with a tiny outer layer removed - the part that only contacts the CB when extreme spin is used. Otherwise they’re identical - and they contact the CB identically, even with stroke errors.

pj
chgo

P.S. Smaller pockets favor the stronger player - makes less difference to them.
If i believe it, its true. Case closed. Perception is everything. Very well could be in my head. My head wins this battle.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A few years back, like maybe early 2000’s, Raphael Martinez was using a 14mm shaft.

There were a couple of Accu-Stats tapes. He played depressingly well with it, lol.

Lou Figueroa
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know several pros that use from 12mm to 12.5mm but very few that use 13mm shafts unless of course you want to count the visitors (Philippinos) I get a couple times a year. A few of them have rolled in with what looks to be very beefy shafts.
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If i believe it, its true. Case closed. Perception is everything. Very well could be in my head. My head wins this battle.

I agree with PJ but, I understand where your coming from.

I too "feel" i can move the ball better with a smaller shaft.

Now, moving the ball is good but the more important thing to me is:

I can visualize behind the cue better with a ~11.17mm shaft and never notice unwanted spin.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
If i believe it, its true. Case closed. Perception is everything. Very well could be in my head. My head wins this battle.
Your choice, of course - and it doesn't matter unless you change how you play with a smaller tip, assuming you ever do. (And it seems Billy Incardona agrees with you, so there's that...)

Others might want to know the facts - good luck to all of you.

pj
chgo
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A few years back, like maybe early 2000’s, Raphael Martinez was using a 14mm shaft.

There were a couple of Accu-Stats tapes. He played depressingly well with it, lol.

Lou Figueroa

Don't you just hate those guys?

There's a certain Philippino that visits me everytime he is in the country. He always has, what some would call a broomstick with him. I've not measured but I swear, that thing looks huge. I would put it at ~13.5mm to ~13.75mm....... huge!

He can draw the white off the ball.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
For a little perspective - the difference between 13mm and 12.75mm is less than 1/100th of an inch.

It's amazing how small a difference makes such a big difference to us.

pj
chgo
 

app4dstn

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Does anybody who believes smaller tips produce more unwanted spin have a theory for why/how they do?

A smaller tip is just a larger tip with a tiny outer layer removed - the part that only contacts the CB when extreme spin is used. Otherwise they’re identical - and they contact the CB identically, even with stroke errors.

pj
chgo

P.S. Smaller pockets favor the stronger player - makes less difference to them.

I think it’s all in the human. You can see more white and you go more off center. Also a thinner shaft transfers less energy. You end up doing more to stroke and execute taking you farther out of your comfort zone faster as the shot demands increase. I learned to play with a McDermott i3. I play now with a 314. I play closer to center, more within my zone and my stroke is shorter. And the results are better. I don’t overcook the cb as often. End results are better. Progress has been faster. Again it’s all between the ears. Suited my mindset better.

I think it’s kind of counter intuitive to have fewer errors with less visual precision
 

app4dstn

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Does anybody who believes smaller tips produce more unwanted spin have a theory for why/how they do?

A

Your choice, of course - and it doesn't matter unless you change how you play with a smaller tip, assuming you ever do. (And it seems Billy Incardona agrees with you, so there's that...)

Others might want to know the facts - good luck to all of you.

pj
chgo
I agree. When the season ends i’ll spend some time going back to a thinner shaft and see if I can adjust. Will I still find the thinner shaft to be more demanding? I do think for myself that starting with a thinner shaft was a faster improvement slope as I learned spin. I just couldn’t see what I was aiming at as well with a thicker shaft.
 

jtompilot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Does anybody who believes smaller tips produce more unwanted spin have a theory for why/how they do?

A smaller tip is just a larger tip with a tiny outer layer removed - the part that only contacts the CB when extreme spin is used. Otherwise they’re identical - and they contact the CB identically, even with stroke errors.

pj
chgo

P.S. Smaller pockets favor the stronger player - makes less difference to them.

To look at it another way. If your/my stroke is crooked and delivers the cue at an angle 10 degrees off what I want, the tip still contacts the cue ball at the same location whether your using a 11.75 or 13 mm tip. I see the only difference being if you want 1, 2, or 3 tips of english then depending on size of tip that would be a different distance from center. When using a lot of english it’s not the center of the tip that contacts the cue ball.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I think it’s kind of counter intuitive to have fewer errors with less visual precision
I play with a 10mm tip (about snooker size), and find that I'm more precise with my tip placement on the CB - because I don't have so much "extra" tip area to obscure what part of the tip is hitting the CB. It's kinda like having a lower squirt shaft: smaller estimates = smaller errors.

pj
chgo
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
...if you want 1, 2, or 3 tips of english then depending on size of tip that would be a different distance from center.
That would be true (a tiny bit) for different tip curvatures, even on the same width tip. But not just for different tip widths.

However, using a small tip with a larger diameter curve (for instance, using my 10mm tip with a nickel or quarter radius - which I don't do) you'll get to the edge of the tip just as you reach the miscue limit on the CB, so there might be a slight difference in how much extreme side spin you can get.

pj
chgo
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
That data fits very good with my experiences as well, most players have shafts between 13mm and 12.5mm. Some players fall inn love with the "big cueball" you get when using a shaft under 12mm, but very few players plays consistently good with a small diameter shaft, and most resort back to a more normal tip diameter after a while.
On the other hand, the only Euro player who performed better than expected in the Mosconi Cup was Albin Ouschan. He uses an 11.8mm tip.
 

RickLafayette

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
There is one more factor in the preference of a smaller diameter tip/shaft that hasn't been discussed. People with short stubby fingers who prefer a closed bridge have more difficulty with a larger diameter shaft and are more comfortable with a narrower shaft.
 

poolguy4u

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
.




Just want to be clear, tip diameter and shaft diameter are usually two different things.

Most of my shafts have a pro taper so they are the same.


But a lot of LD shafts, will have a smaller tip and the shaft will be larger.

Vantage shaft advertises 12.9mm tip but the shaft is much larger.





.
 

joelpope

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
A true 13.0 mm shaft with a extended pro taper of around 17-18” feels great and all my cues have this
same shaft & also a 12.75 mm shaft and a couple of my cues have 3 & 4 shafts but still 12.75 & 13 mm.
The weight of the shaft is very important to me so I strive on getting shafts that weigh 4 ozs or heavier.
For 12.75 mm shafts, I wanted shafts that weigh 3.8 ozs or heavier and all the shafts use ivory ferrules.
I also made sure to install the same tips on the shafts so when I switch cues the difference is very slight.
Do you realize that ½ of a mm (e.g. going from 13mm to 12.5mm) is 2 One Hundredth's of an inch

If you arguing between 12.5mm and 12.4 then you are talking 4 one thousands of an inch... come on

I know you can feel it, but it is not much more than a RCH
 
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