anybody else NOT like Chinese 8 Ball?

Have you played it? Or pretty much just watched youtube matches?
I'd have to play it to know for sure if I don't like it.
I suspect I wouldn't like the added difficulty.

Pulled up the recent final between Melling and Potts, and I noticed a few things.

- The cloth is so fast that every must be very gentle and have great speed control.
Plus with the rounded pockets, you can't really ram balls home unless
they're coming straight into the mouth of the pocket. So yeah, you better stay in line.

- Saw at least two shots where players reaaaallly had to baby the balls in.
One of them was a very long shot that seemed like it'd be dangerously slow on
a typical american table. You'd need a very clean, level, almost tournament-quality table.

They made the shots, but you can clearly see even with top level players,
the balls wobble and rattle and barely fall in at soft speed.
I'm sure for average guys, these balls would just hang up, especially if you haven't
learned how to trickle them in at pocket speed.

- Since rail cuts don't go, or at least not easily, I noticed melling didn't even try a shot
where his ball ended up frozen to a side rail and some distance from the hole.
Instead, he played a safe knocking one of his balls into that ball, and relocating it.

So basically, it seems like balls on the side rails become problem balls, almost like a cluster
you must break out, or at least fall dead nuts perfect to make the shot.

I'm inclined to say this is not a good thing.
If a ball is not tied up with another ball in american 8 ball, it's generally very makeable
no matter where it happens to be on the table.

Here, you can get penalized for having a ball unluckily land very close to a rail,
even if no other ball interferes. That's going to happen all the time after a smash break
and it seems like it adds some extra luck to the game.

Being able to move balls from cushions is a skill. You're not going to go far in snooker or E8B if you can't do it. I don't see where lucks fits into it.
 
So, your complaints are mostly "the game is too hard!!!".

All of the reasons why you said you dislike it are exactly why I like it.

There are a huge numbers of people on this forum that always gripe that 8-ball is too easy and I have always said that on the proper equipment it would not be too easy and challenge the best in the world. The Chinese did exactly that and 8-ball IS challenging to the elite players in the world now under those conditions and people now whine that it is too hard.

I think atm as far a "pool" goes Chinese 8-ball is the best game out there. I STILL think that 8-ball played on a 10-foot diamond with 4 1/8th inch pockets cut like the Fatboy Rails would be ideal, and if America went and did that they would create the game that would ultimately become the central game in pool at the pro level, but America is stuck in some very old ways that do not work. Other areas of the world are trying new things to make pool at the pro level more challenging, and it works.

a game that is inherently too hard can often minimize or even negate the differences between skill levels, and, as already mentioned, I'm sure my reasons for disliking are the exact reasons some prefer it, yourself included, lack of reading comprehension not withstanding
 
To be fair, most English people don't know the rules for English 8 ball, either.

i was gonna say if u think chinese 8 ball is bad u should try english 8ball, dumbest rules of any game i've ever played, big balls w small pockets and when i can't run out (which is nearly every game) and i play a nice safety it fouls me and gives the opponent 2 trips which is the english equivalent of ball in hand!
 
I play C8B from time to time. I usually play with a friend of mine, who I also play American 8 and 9 ball with. In the typical American games I CRUSH him! When we play C8B we probably split 60/40 in my favor.

I think it becomes a bit random for lesser skilled players, where the A8B seems to favor the player with better skills, the exact opposite holds true for pro players.

I like the flow of both A8B and 9 Ball, that flow is not there when playing C8B (at my level)
 
It's essentially E8B on a 9 footer with A8B rules. E8B is not pool, it is a replacement pub game for snooker that started when pubs made the decision to get rid of the big 12 ft tables and bring in mini snooker tables (often 6 ft) with 10 reds. Many English pubs used to have a snooker room but I haven't seen one in years. Then pool arrived because it is a quicker game on a coin op table, creates more action and makes more money for the house (that said, many pubs have ditched pool tables because there is more profit to be made with standing room only on Friday or Saturday night or by going gastro). The concept of playing ball in hand was alien to UK players and someone, somewhere invented the "two shots" rule (a forerunner of the latter day boneheaded "one shot on the black rule" that penalises the player who is fouled against). Nobody knew the rules anyway and the variants of "old rules", "new rules", old new rules", new new rules" etc made the game a bit of a joke in pubs. When they stopped the cue ball from rolling out with no money in in case some pikey nicked it for a laugh, by making it smaller than the other balls, it became even more laughable.

I have no problem with C8B (or even E8B) and am all for any kind of game on any table as a bit of fun. But, Playing pool on a snooker table has always been daft because it kills the game. Granted, A8B is too easy for the pros. And 9B texas express rules, that was inflicted on US TV viewers as part of a conspiracy to make them impatient after watching the same thing for more than 20 seconds, is largely a luckfest. Nothing wrong with these games - I and millions around the world love them and find them challenging. But the pros should be playing 10 ball (until they all pretty much solve it and then they should move to another rotation game), straight pool and one pocket. Oh, and snooker - yes all pool pros should play snooker. Making 8B more difficult by trying to kill the game on a snooker table is plain daft.

Nobody plays Chinese 8 Ball anyway - even in China. It is just Gareth Potts and a few guest appearances by some pool and snooker players trying to make the game take off in a part of the world where there is tons of new money and excitement for anything new and different. China is doing just fine producing pool and snooker champions anyway. Pool on a pool table. Snooker on a snooker table.
 
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I'm new to this having been around all forms of billiards most of my life.

My three big criticisms thus far

1. The Break seems like more a crapshoot than ever, balls just don't drop enough.

2. The game seems to require the players to stay in line more than ever, once out of line it appears too difficult to get the cue ball back to where it needs to be. For some this might indicate a higher skill level required but for me, part of pool excellence includes the skill and creativity required to get back in shape after falling out of line.

3. I've watched too many missed pots indicating to me that the pocket width in relation to the balls is simply too narrow

Now I recognize that my criticisms may in fact be pluses for fans of the game, maybe I'll come around, again, still new to this and pretty much do love anything billiard related so I'll continue with this for a bit

BTW, is there any real difference between a so called Chinese 8 ball table vs a 9ft snooker table vs a 9 ft pool table with snooker cushions?

I like it when a game is tough for good players to play. Watching people not look like they are trying and never miss is boring as hell.
 
Being able to move balls from cushions is a skill. You're not going to go far in snooker or E8B if you can't do it. I don't see where lucks fits into it.

I guess I'm used to thinking of 8b as a break'n'run game where every ball is in play
immediately after the break, rather than a snooker-type game where you must
break balls out of jail several times to get them in play.

It seems unlucky to me that two players can break and both have zero clusters,
but player A has two balls settle within an inch of the rail, so he has 2 problems to solve.
While player B has zero clusters plus nothing happened to land on the rail, so he has a routine runout.

It's a factor out of the player's control, that exists with the rounded pockets but doesn't with...
what would you call the non-rounded ones? square-cut? angled?
 
I'll tell you what -- if there were a snooker table or Chinese 8 Ball table anywhere within close driving distance, I'd wear the cloth out practicing on it. I love games like this with added difficulty and focus on strong position/precise ball pocketing. Wish they had 'em here....
 
As far rail shots on an E8B table is concerned. I would not consider a ball down the rail on a Supreme pool table with strachan 6811 gold match cloth to be a particularly hard shot. Hard to smash, admitedly but not impossible to make by any stretch.

Probably a right git on a crappy pub pool table but that could be said equally about shots on tournament tables vs bar tables at American games.
 
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