Anybody out there with a diamond table that has tighter pockets than pro cut?

R

raven5000

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Going to get a diamond and curious if I should order tighter than pro cut pockets but curious if anybody has one like this and if they like it or regret it?


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raven5000 said:
Going to get a diamond and curious if I should order tighter than pro cut pockets but curious if anybody has one like this and if they like it or regret it?


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
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My corner pockets are 4 1/4" inch openings and the table plays tough! A lot of pros come through here and they love playing on it. It makes it difficult for me, but I know that it's good for me as well. If I can get in stroke here, I can play just about anywhere.
 
raven5000 said:
Going to get a diamond and curious if I should order tighter than pro cut pockets but curious if anybody has one like this and if they like it or regret it?


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
Click to expand...

Look Raven, what are you trying to achieve? Are you gunning to be the next SVB? Your leagues best player? Impress your friends? Tighter and tighter pockets does not make a better player. If you are trying to emulate SVB or Scott Frost, go for it! Otherwise leave well enough alone. Just be sure to level the table correctly.

When you enter East Ridge Billiards in Rochester, there is a Diamond Pro/Am straight from last years Turning Stone August event. Signed by the finalists. Toughest Diamond I've ever played on. Standard "pro cut" pockets. If you have the time, look up the final match on YouTube. You'll see how tough the table played!

Think twice before you jump. JMHO.

Lyn
 
raven5000 said:
Going to get a diamond and curious if I should order tighter than pro cut pockets but curious if anybody has one like this and if they like it or regret it?


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
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Curious, is that an option if ordered direct from Diamond, or was/is it altered by someone? Just make sure, either way, that it's done the right way - by extending the subrails, so you are still able to use no more than a 3/16" pocket facing - which I believe is the size pocket facings Diamond likes to use. Doesn't sound like a 1/4" in pocket size is a big difference, but the difference between playing on 4-1/2" pockets and 4-1/4" pockets is huge, unless you are nearly a pro level player. Side pockets going from 5" Diamond tour cut specs to 4-3/4" sides is an even bigger difference!
 
I don't own one, but one of our league places has two 8' Diamonds with tighter than 4.5" pockets. It is for sure tougher but not horrible to play on. For a decent player it won't make much difference, if you are shooting a lot of shots off the rail that go in now, they are not likely to go in with a tighter Diamond pocket.

There was an A player that was about to play Mike Dechaine on a tight pocket table, he said "it will slow him down a bit, but it will slow me down a lot", so really depends on the player. If it's a bit tighter, say 4.3" or so, would be a nice practice table. I would not go any tighter or it not be much fun to play on.
 
I have the pro cut tightened up to 4.25" just like Jay. You have to hit them well to make the shot. I have zero regrets but I would not want them any tighter.
 
I just bought a Diamond with the standard 4.5"

They play plenty tough for me, but I'm just above banging speed.

Most of the fun in this game (for me) comes from making balls, and most mortals don't need the added challenge of small pockets.

I say if you don't play with a high degree of skill, stick with the 4.5" (IMO)
 
Pro cut pocket refers to the cut of the facings in the pocket and not the width of the pockets. An older diamond with 4.5" pockets takes balls easier than a newer diamond with 4.5" pro cut pockets. Hope this helps.
 
J SCHWARZ said:
Pro cut pocket refers to the cut of the facings in the pocket and not the width of the pockets. An older diamond with 4.5" pockets takes balls easier than a newer diamond with 4.5" pro cut pockets. Hope this helps.
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I don't think that is correct. Standard cut is 4 3/4" (or maybe even 5"). Pro cut is 4 1/2".
Or so I've been told.
 
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easy-e said:
If running out on a regular diamond is easy, get the tighter pockets.
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That comment pretty much sums it up. We have too many recreational players that come in here and for reasons I will never understand, request to play on the tightest pocket table, and/or the 10 foot table, both of which are kept covered up. We only allow a certain minimum skill level player to play on those tables, in order to keep the cloths on both those tables in as good a condition as possible.

Yes, whenever we get filled up, we do choose someone to play on those tables, so we don't have covered up tables with a waiting list - which I can understand could anger some customers.
 
I own a 9' Diamond Pro-Am with the 4 1/2" pockets. What makes it tough, especially if you have 4 1/4" pockets like Jay Helfert's table is the depth of the shelf within the pocket. This is what creates the infamous "Diamond Rattle". Compare this configuration to a Rasson table with the same size pockets and the Rasson will play much easier due to the shelf not being cut so deep. If you don't believe me, go back and look at matches from last year's Mosconi Cup when they show you the overhead shot of the table. Make a mental note of what those pockets looked liked and compare them to a Diamond Pro-Am. The difference is substancial.
 
Hell, if I ordered a Diamond table, I'd tell them to cut the angle to 139* from their stock 141*.
That way it will take balls easier .
And in case they went over 139*, I'd hope they stay around 140*.
When that opening gets to 143*, you will hate it.
 
I bought Diamond tables for the pool hall and one accidentally came as 4.25" corners. They,offered to switch it out. After some debate we kept it. Glad we have it.

We use the 4.25" for our 10 ball break and run drawing table. Use it fior live streaming and pro challenge matches. My better players really notice the difference.

You have to play better position and can't,hit,balls hard on this table. If you are looking to really improve, I'd suggest going 4.25".
 
I play a couple times a month on a 10 footer that has 4.25 corners and 4.75 sides.

My home table is a 9 with 4.5 pro cut pockets. It takes me all of 20 minutes to adjust to the smaller pocket when playing rotation games.

Rake
 
I just measured my table again. The side pockets have openings between 4 3/4 and 4 7/8, more like 4 13/16. The shelves on the corner pockets are 1 1/2" deep in the middle of the pocket and 2" deep at the edges of the pocket opening. They will definitely hang a ball that contacts the side rail going in at any speed above medium slow. You can slow roll a ball and it may fall after touching the side rail close to the pocket, and then again it may not. Bottom line, you must hit these pockets cleanly or they will stand up on you. I really notice it on long rail banks. You can hit one good and if it touches that side rail anywhere it's not going in.

I've seen Shane and Dennis fire balls in and run out rack after rack while practicing on this table, and I've also seen both of them miss very make-able shots from time to time. You MUST concentrate fully on each shot here, even the "easy" ones.

By the way the TAR table had 4 1/8" corner pockets and it was a terror. I saw many good players get very frustrated playing on that table. The best I ever saw there was Francisco. His concentration is the best!
 
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jay helfert said:
I just measured my table again. The side pockets have openings between 4 3/4 and 4 7/8, more like 4 13/16. The shelves on the corner pockets are 1 1/2" deep in the middle of the pocket and 2" deep at the edges of the pocket opening. They will definitely hang a ball that contacts the side rail going in at any speed above medium slow. You can slow roll a ball and it may fall after touching the side rail close to the pocket, and then again it may not. Bottom line, you must hit these pockets cleanly or they will stand up on you. I really notice it on long rail banks. You can hit one good and if it touches that side rail anywhere it's not going in.

I've seen Shane and Dennis fire balls in and run out rack after rack while practicing on this table, and I've also seen both of them miss very make-able shots from time to time. You MUST concentrate fully on each shot here, even the "easy" ones.

By the way the TAR table had 4 1/8" corner pockets and it was a terror. I saw many good players get very frustrated playing on that table. The best I ever saw there was Francisco. His concentration is the best!
Click to expand...

There were two table setups for TAR, the tight one, but then it was moved to a 4.5 (maybe a shade under).
 
SBC said:
I bought Diamond tables for the pool hall and one accidentally came as 4.25" corners. They,offered to switch it out. After some debate we kept it. Glad we have it.

We use the 4.25" for our 10 ball break and run drawing table. Use it fior live streaming and pro challenge matches. My better players really notice the difference.

You have to play better position and can't,hit,balls hard on this table. If you are looking to really improve, I'd suggest going 4.25".
Click to expand...

Unless part of your improving includes the skill of shooting the ball into different parts of the pocket to widen your cue ball moving options. Like you will need when you leave your table and go compete somewhere. If center pocket is all that interests you then go for it.

JC
 
Diamond used to charge a $400 premium for pockets smaller than their approximately 4.5" pro-cut. Likely they still do. So you really have to want the extra abuse of extra-tight pockets. As a senior, I can relate having hung balls all the time and paying extra for it wouldn't be that great.
 
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