Anyone Else having problems at the BCA

[banditgrrr]

Since he had a similar issue and forfeited last year, I think the logical thing to do would be to go to table 105 at 3:00pm. If there's no opponent there, I would make it a point to call over the ref, let them know you have a match there at 3:00pm. At least that way if someone shows up with the score sheet to put you on the clock the ref will know that you were there on time and would not forfeit you.

 

[pt109]

BCAPL has my sympathy....lotta players there...how do you keep track?
....pretty sure every year at the DCC, players forfeit matches...
...it's usually because the players weren't trying hard enough to look out for themselves.

 

[u12armresl]

That goes way beyond what any TD should have to do.

I remember the DCC at the old EW and it was amazing the number of people who would call the tournament desk from their rooms and ask for their play times. TD got to where others would answer the phone and give out the info, and then just quit doing it because of how time consuming it was.

IMHO once this Kevin person was found at the table he should have asked the other player who asked for him to be on the clock if he wanted to play it out. While maybe the guy was looking for any way to get to the next round, sometimes the player will actually WANT to play it out and give the guy a chance to erase the forfeit.

Noticed that Lee Brett also had a F several rounds into the winners side, anyone know the story on that one?

Maybe this question has been addressed before, but if they are trying to get players to use a smartphone app, that would indicate to me that they should have been able to call/text the player in the event of a table/schedule change, as opposed to yelling out his name in a crowded room.

Am I missing something? Probably....

 

[u12armresl]

Partially agree.

To me a 3PM match means a 2:45PM match.
I mean why else are you there but to play pool. 80% of your day is free, you only have to be at the table for your few matches, and early is always better.

Another reason I really like the Brickyard tournament. Match times are posted, they are adhered to, and you don't hear people complain about how he runs things.

Since he had a similar issue and forfeited last year, I think the logical thing to do would be to go to table 105 at 3:00pm. If there's no opponent there, I would make it a point to call over the ref, let them know you have a match there at 3:00pm. At least that way if someone shows up with the score sheet to put you on the clock the ref will know that you were there on time and would not forfeit you.

 

[one stroke]

BCAPL has my sympathy....lotta players there...how do you keep track?
....pretty sure every year at the DCC, players forfeit matches...
...it's usually because the players weren't trying hard enough to look out for themselves.

The optimial word there usually ,,

 

[justadub]

That goes way beyond what any TD should have to do.

I remember the DCC at the old EW and it was amazing the number of people who would call the tournament desk from their rooms and ask for their play times. TD got to where others would answer the phone and give out the info, and then just quit doing it because of how time consuming it was.

IMHO once this Kevin person was found at the table he should have asked the other player who asked for him to be on the clock if he wanted to play it out. While maybe the guy was looking for any way to get to the next round, sometimes the player will actually WANT to play it out and give the guy a chance to erase the forfeit.

Noticed that Lee Brett also had a F several rounds into the winners side, anyone know the story on that one?

My thought was only in event of schedule changes, not for every match. And they are the ones that are trying to get the players using phones for their app, why not have the app send a notification in the event of a schedule change?

Just thinking out loud.....the scope of the thing is daunting, I'll grant you

 

[Wedge]

How hard would it have been to get a ref

Mr West should have simply grabbed a tournament official. Instead now we have folks tarnishing the event and Ozzy because someone wondered around rather than getting an official. Hundreds upon hundreds of matches played and folks grab at low hanging fruit to discredit the event.

Keep up the good work CSI and Ozzy

Wedge

 

[one stroke]

Mr West should have simply grabbed a tournament official. Instead now we have folks tarnishing the event and Ozzy because someone wondered around rather than getting an official. Hundreds upon hundreds of matches played and folks grab at low hanging fruit to discredit the event.

Keep up the good work CSI and Ozzy

Wedge

Why would he grap a official when the app he's told to use is showing his opponent still playing ,, why when his opponent went to the table to put Kevin on the clock was someone not smart enough to see what the app said ,, why ask people to use it if it's useless ,,
If you think this is the only problem there your living in a dream world, there's problems at every event of this magnitude ,,
Some get corrected some don't but the squeaky door is the one that gets the oil in most cases

1

 

[gregcantrall]

Friday morning the computer went down

My wife and I played Scotch doubles at 9. Win or lose we had matches scheduled every hour and a half.
Our fist match we won 10 minutes before second was to start. When I turned in the score sheet it was a total cluster at the score table. The computer was down and score sheets could not be printed. It was announced if both teams were present they would give you a blank paper and you could proceed. I called out for table 165 and got no response. We waited at table 165 until 11:45 when it was announced our score sheet was ready. I went and got it and again called out for table 165 as no one had ever shown up. When I got back to the table we waited 5 minutes then
put them on the clock as our third match was scheduled to start in 6 minutes.

After 15 minutes I got the F on the score sheet and turned it in. The bracket on the in-house monitor did not even reflect our first win. I went outside to where my wife was smoking and checked my phone. It shows our first match but the names in the second bracket that I just turned in the score on are for the other couple in the 1st bracket. I hot footed it back to the score table and heard the second couples names and saw a scorer handing him a score sheet. I intercepted him and asked if our name was on it. It was a score sheet for the losers bracket and he confirmed they had lost their first match. I explained my conundrum to the score keep and showed her my phone. She just said "Oh your phone will not update as fast as ours. So I went to their monitor and it still didn't even show our 1st victory.

I had already checked the table listed for our next match and it was being played. I went back again to find our third opponents with the referee putting us on the clock.

 

[Lonestar_jim]

My wife and I played Scotch doubles at 9. Win or lose we had matches scheduled every hour and a half.
Our fist match we won 10 minutes before second was to start. When I turned in the score sheet it was a total cluster at the score table. The computer was down and score sheets could not be printed. It was announced if both teams were present they would give you a blank paper and you could proceed. I called out for table 165 and got no response. We waited at table 165 until 11:45 when it was announced our score sheet was ready. I went and got it and again called out for table 165 as no one had ever shown up. When I got back to the table we waited 5 minutes then
put them on the clock as our third match was scheduled to start in 6 minutes.

After 15 minutes I got the F on the score sheet and turned it in. The bracket on the in-house monitor did not even reflect our first win. I went outside to where my wife was smoking and checked my phone. It shows our first match but the names in the second bracket that I just turned in the score on are for the other couple in the 1st bracket. I hot footed it back to the score table and heard the second couples names and saw a scorer handing him a score sheet. I intercepted him and asked if our name was on it. It was a score sheet for the losers bracket and he confirmed they had lost their first match. I explained my conundrum to the score keep and showed her my phone. She just said "Oh your phone will not update as fast as ours. So I went to their monitor and it still didn't even show our 1st victory.

I had already checked the table listed for our next match and it was being played. I went back again to find our third opponents with the referee putting us on the clock.

F'ing Technology ram job.
As a reminder to some, Kevin said his previous match finished at 2:57.

Stay at the table.

As Chef from Apocalypse Now said, "Don't get out of the boat !"

 

[calcuttaman]

Do we know who the wonderful person who called for a ref that quickly was?

How long is acceptable before you call a referee? In this case, the referee was called over 10 minutes after the start time of the match and he wasn't forfeited until 3:27.

Where was Kevin from 3:02 to 3:27?

 

[JC]

How long is acceptable before you call a referee? In this case, the referee was called over 10 minutes after the start time of the match and he wasn't forfeited until 3:27.

Where was Kevin from 3:02 to 3:27?

Feel bad for Kevin because being forfeited is a really bad thing to have happen. But to blame the tournament is misdirected. He should have known after being forfeited before what to do. Had he done what he was supposed to do this would not have happened. Showing up at the table one time between 3:12 and 3:27 and it wouldn't have happened. That's really quite a long time. Fool me once blah blah blah......

JC

 

[gregcantrall]

I do believe this tournament could have had a situation where it was next to impossible to know where you played or at what time.
I guess the added difficulty of figuring out where, when and who, was part of the challenge.

 

[JAM]

What a bummer for both the tournament staff and Kevin West. I know Kevin, as does Ozzy. Traveling all the way from Delaware to Vegas is expensive and not something everybody can do or afford.

Rules are rules, and the tournament director has to go by rules, which are not going to please everybody.

Kevin is a first-class, gentleman pool player. It breaks my heart to see this happen to him. I empathize with Ozzy's stance.

Keith has been forfeited in the past. It was at Diamond Billiards in Lancaster, PA. We were staying at the hotel next door. We asked the TD how many minutes it would be for the next match, and he said we have at least an hour. We went next door to put clothes in the washing machine, gone about 15 minutes, thinking we had an hour. When we came back, within 15 minutes, Keith had been forfeited. It didn't seem fair, but what are you going to do?

Hopefully, CSI will look into these issues for future events and figure out a way to prevent this from happening. Sometimes both parties may be wrong and right at the same time when it comes to playing pool.

 

[Baby Huey]

It's difficult to run a major event without having some problems. As a referee you have to look at the person, the situation and any extenuating circumstances. We all know certain players who chronically are late for various reasons mostly to do with their lack of discipline for timeliness. But in this case management has the discretionary right to alter the rules. If for any reason management wasn't clear about the time or table assignment for a match then cooler heads should have prevailed. That was not made clear in the previous threads or I didn't read them properly. If that's the case then I apologize.

 

[fastone371]

Im still a little confused about exactly what happened here. Kevin should have been at table 105 with or without score sheet regardless of what the BCAPL APP said. If no opponent is there by say 3:10 I notify a ref, but at least that way his soul is pure because he is at his assigned table at the assigned time.

As far as people suggesting they send a phone notification Ozzy did say sometimes people get a weak signal or their phones dont update quick enough. Once again if you are at your assigned table at assigned time and not worrying what the APP says about your opponent it is hard to be hit with a forfeit.

I usually get to the scorers table 20-30 minutes early to check on their computers my match time and table assignment then I will go to my table for some practice or a nearby open table. I had one instance where I went to check the table for my next match and an earlier match was still in progress, I went outside for 5 minutes to smoke and my opponent was at the table with a ref at 1 minute past start time trying to put me on the clock, it was a non issue, I moved him to the losers side. :grin-square:

 

[oneshotwiss]

I played my second round winners bracket match on Sunday which was scheduled for 1:30 at about 2:45 so everything gets so far behind so fast that match times go out the window anyway

 

[SWRLE]

Wrong.

"That is why we state in the regulations that players should simply stay at the table and not leave."

This policy does not work when there is no scoresheet at the table. Player is on time. Checks for scoresheet before heading to assigned table. No scoresheet. Goes to table and starts waiting. No opponent. Now what?

 

[Celtic]

I played my second round winners bracket match on Sunday which was scheduled for 1:30 at about 2:45 so everything gets so far behind so fast that match times go out the window anyway

I had a friend scheduled for a match at 8PM that did not start until ~1AM due to matches falling behind. Are players expected to sit at a table waiting for 5 hours not knowing if/when the backlogged matches might catch up or if/when to dare go and attempt to see what is going on or attempt to grab a scorecard?

CSI "What, you attempted to go grab your scorecard? Well that is where you screwed up~ Forfeit!"

And when things get backlogged match locations start to get shuffled. You can be sitting at table 105 wondering what the heck is going on and low and behold your match suddenly gets moved somewhere else.

Kevin was not wrong here, he took what information CSI gave him in the format CSI offers and tried to figure out what was going on and he got screwed for it, and Ozzy has decided to stubbornly refuse to accept any responsibility in CSI's system failure and blame a player that was trying to figure out what was going on and looking for his scoresheet that he had "no" reason to assume had been picked up by anyone due to absolutely nothing indicating the previous match was even over.

How the heck does Kevin even know the scoresheet is picked up? He goes to check for a scorecard and he gets forfeited for it? Weak CSI, fix your tournament and stop blaming everyone else for your own failings every bloody time...

 

[SWRLE]

Sorry to hear this

(Kevin West) Facebook Response!!!

Obviously you didn't read my post thoroughly. I'm not asking to be ushered anywhere. I want to know why two players are still being listed as having a match going on yet a scoresheet can be processed and printed for my match? Neither player had been declared a winner. It's obvious there's a problem with the system because there's several other forfeits too. My situation has nothing to do with a rule book.

KD

It is still not clear what happened here. The OP says there was a table change involved but none of the later dialogue confirms this. That would be a valid protest if both players don't know about a table change. Secondly, Kevin says he went to 105 close to match time before he was forfeited and saw people practicing there. Unsaid is the fact the opponent and the scoresheet were obviously not there either. So either he got there and left before the opponent put him on the clock - or his evil minded opponent put him on the clock and disappeared. This latter, hard to believe case would be a valid protest too. But the central issue seems to be reliance on bracket updates as a means of determining one's next match status. This is unreliable. If you go to your assigned table within 15 minutes of your post time and wait there you cannot be forfeited. If there is no opponent and no scoresheet notify the ref you are leaving to check for a scoresheet. If you don't trust ref's memory ask him to record the time on a note at your table showing you have appeared. If there is still no scoresheet ask desk if it is printed. If it still isn't printed repeat. If it has been printed return to the table and put your opponent on the clock. Checking bracket updates may be helpful but nothing to rely upon.