Anyone else think the requirement to rack solid-stripe-solid (US Open 8b) is goofy?

Bob Jewett said:
I would have thought that they would use the BCAPL racking rules. They are below. Are you sure they were not using those rules?

2-2 8-Ball Rack
The balls are racked as follows (see Figure 2-1):
a. in a triangle with the apex ball on the foot spot (AR p. 78);
b. the rows behind the apex are parallel to the foot string;
c. the 8-ball is in the middle of the row of three balls;
d. the remaining balls are placed at random, except that the ball at each rear
corner of the rack must be of a different group from the other rear corner
(left/right orientation those two balls does not matter). (AR p. 96)​
Click to expand...

They are except... or in addition too -- the balls on the outside are to alternate (solid, stripe). The issue is if you do that the corner balls end up being the same SO.. you then switch one of the corner balls so that "item d" is not violated. Which is what Corey forgot to do....

A lot of fuss amounting to less than zero IMHO
 
nb92 said:
They are except... or in addition too -- the balls on the outside are to alternate (solid, stripe). The issue is if you do that the corner balls end up being the same SO.. you then switch one of the corner balls so that "item d" is not violated. Which is what Corey forgot to do....
Click to expand...
Do you know if this special rule which seems to have been developed just for this event is written down anywhere?

On a related note, I've tried eight ball breaks with all the stripes on one side and after the break it was not possible to see any clumping.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Do you know if this special rule which seems to have been developed just for this event is written down anywhere?

On a related note, I've tried eight ball breaks with all the stripes on one side and after the break it was not possible to see any clumping.
Click to expand...

It is with in The Official rules of BCAPL with section 2-2 being applied. Bob I am sure you have it at your bedside (LOL) but it is also on the CSI web-site.
 
I always laugh when I see people rack alternating around the whole rack. If it's a friend or someone I'm playing, I always ask the same question. "Do you know where the balls are going to go on the break?" Which always generates a "no" response in which I follow up with, "then why does it matter the exact order of the rack?" The break, especially in 8 ball, is random.
Personally, I put all 15 balls in and change the corners and the 8, no other balls get moved.
 
nb92 said:
It is with in The Official rules of BCAPL with section 2-2 being applied. Bob I am sure you have it at your bedside (LOL) but it is also on the CSI web-site.
Click to expand...
It took me a while to find it. Here is the applicable text from the Applied Rulings section:
2-2 8-Ball Rack
For the purposes of Rule 2-2-d, the common practice of alternating solids and stripes around the outside of the rack is permissible, provided the pattern is altered so there is a stripe in one rear corner and a solid in the other and that the position of any particular ball is not consistent between racks.​
Note that the alternation of stripes/solids is permitted but not required.

This applied ruling is contrary to the World Standardized Rules which specify no intentional pattern other than the two back balls being different and the eight ball in its place.
 
The Saw said:
It's the dumbest, most nitty, rule ever! I get called on it a lot.... Every single time I get called on it I want to blow a gasket. Nits.....
Click to expand...

Do you have ADD? Just follow the rules and no need to blow a gasket :thumbup:
 
BCA rules require
1. Balls from different groups in the back corners, and
2. 8-ball in the middle of the row of three.
3. Other balls racked randomly

That's not nitty. You do not want to give the breaker an undue advantage of increasing the probability that one group starts two balls ahead after breaking.

Alternating every ball is
1. Not possible if different groups have to be in the back corners. At some point you have to break the pattern.
2. Not required by the rules.
3. Nitty
 
Bob Jewett said:
It took me a while to find it. Here is the applicable text from the Applied Rulings section:
2-2 8-Ball Rack
For the purposes of Rule 2-2-d, the common practice of alternating solids and stripes around the outside of the rack is permissible, provided the pattern is altered so there is a stripe in one rear corner and a solid in the other and that the position of any particular ball is not consistent between racks.​
Note that the alternation of stripes/solids is permitted but not required.

This applied ruling is contrary to the World Standardized Rules which specify no intentional pattern other than the two back balls being different and the eight ball in its place.
Click to expand...

Great point. I would be interest in hearing from Ken or Mark on why they decided to go outside the WSR for the US Open 8 Ball event.
 
I never thought that this would be seen on this level. I would love for someone to make a video of how to cheat rack in 8 ball. 15 balls on the table and you want to tell me that having a certain ball on the corners make me a looser, well if so then i say the same thing i said about 9 and 10 ball.

EVERYONE BREAK FROM THE HEAD SPOT

again pool continues to punish improvement of skill which is probably why networks don't want to touch it, it just to dame hard to keep track with all the changes, and whining, and b**ching. Not football, not basket ball, not baseball, not soccer, none go through the things pool does.

Imagine them saying "he shoots free throws to good he should shoot from the top of the circle not the line" i could go on but don't feel like it. It seems like pros are not asked to be pros in pool cause as soon as someone becomes good at something rather than others learn they punish and point fingers crying.

if i can read the rack better than you then maybe you should go learn, we both have the same playing field and the first one to master this wins.
 
Shaft said:
BCA rules require
1. Balls from different groups in the back corners, and
Click to expand...




That is what exactly the Tournament Director ( Ken.S ) indicated when he interupted the game and instructed Cory to rerack. I was sitting in the VIP section ( Seat # 3 ) of the TV Table. He did not tell cory to alteranate the balls though out the rack. Only the corner balls.
 
vagabond said:
That is what exactly the Tournament Director ( Ken.S ) indicated when he interupted the game and instructed Cory to rerack. I was sitting in the VIP section ( Seat # 3 ) of the TV Table. He did not tell cory to alteranate the balls though out the rack. Only the corner balls.
Click to expand...

I actually hope I heard wrong because the rule is dumb.

But I'm almost positive he said in commentary that all 15 must alternate throughout the rack.
This rule was added just for this even to supposedly prevent pattern racking.
Maybe they saw Dennis at the Jay Swanson memorial tournament and thought
"oh crap we gotta do something about that!"

Watching the stream, when he warned corey on having identical balls in all three corners,
Corey said something like "yeah but they said I had to alternate solid-stripe-solid around the whole outside,
and that's what happens if you alternate".

I know it doesn't hurt anything and doesn't add a lot of time. But it happens because people misunderstand
the action of the balls on the break. That's what bugs me.
People aren't alternating for to satisfy some OCD urge, or to make the rack prettier to look at.
People are alternating because they were taught as scrubs that this gives a 'fairer spread' and they never outgrew
that scrubby thinking, and now it's infecting a major event.
 
So I played Corey at the four bears tournament in April, it was rack your own alternate breaks and after he broke and ran his two first racks I realized he was grouping strips on one side of the rack and was breaking from the same side hitting the second ball, on the third rack of his own I also noticed he was twisting the rack to one side and getting the corner ball to go in the corner on the opposite side. So you can make your own opinion on what he was doing, he also won that tournament. I think Corey has done more homework than most people have on racking, he is the reason why the soft break in 9-ball isn't legal. Don't get me wrong he also plays great but at that level you need to have an advantage with a good break to win
 
BCAPL Rules as applied

BCAPL - Rules as applied to US Open 8 BAll 2013 For 2-2d they made it required vs permissible so no "questions" could be asked as every rack would be done in a similar fashion.

http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook.aspx

2-2
8-Ball Rack

The balls are racked as follows (see Figure 2-1):

a.
in a triangle with the apex ball on the foot spot (AR p. 78);
b.
the rows behind the apex are parallel to the foot string;
c.
the 8-ball is in the middle of the row of three balls;
d.
the remaining balls are placed at random, except that the ball at each rear
corner of the rack must be of a different group from the other rear corner
(left/right orientation those two balls does not matter). (AR p. 96)

2-2
8-Ball Rack

For the purposes of Rule 2-2-d, the common practice of alternating solids and stripes
around the outside of the rack is permissible, provided the pattern is altered so there is a
stripe in one rear corner and a solid in the other and that the position of any particular ball
is not consistent between racks.
 
If you put all the solids in one of the back corners of the rack and soft break, you will most definitely end up with all the solids near a corner pocket.
 
Corey at 4 bears

J.Goosman said:
So I played Corey at the four bears tournament in April, it was rack your own alternate breaks and after he broke and ran his two first racks I realized he was grouping strips on one side of the rack and was breaking from the same side hitting the second ball, on the third rack of his own I also noticed he was twisting the rack to one side and getting the corner ball to go in the corner on the opposite side. So you can make your own opinion on what he was doing, he also won that tournament. I think Corey has done more homework than most people have on racking, he is the reason why the soft break in 9-ball isn't legal. Don't get me wrong he also plays great but at that level you need to have an advantage with a good break to win
Click to expand...

Shane also complained that Corey was tilting the rack, the only possible way to make the ball he was making ever time. Shane even proved it to him. Corey said, YOU should have called me on it. Shane just shook his head when talked about it at supper.
 
I respect Corey's game but he shouldn't have to do sneaky little things like that to give himself an advantage. We were using the magic rack so I think it should have been the opponent rack then it would have been random racks no grouping of balls. And the rack wouldn't have been twisted. There were a couple other rules in that tournament that I didn't like but I'm not gonna get into that.
 
Pretty disappointing if corey actually resorts to that stuff, cuz he's a real break scientist and is smart enough to figure out how to make balls without cheating. So many players now are making those 2nd row balls in the side, which you can tweak by just breaking from different spots rather than tilting the rack. Shane and Ko Pin Yi have certainly figured it out. I don't see why corey can't.
 
robsnotes4u said:
Shane also complained that Corey was tilting the rack, the only possible way to make the ball he was making ever time. Shane even proved it to him. Corey said, YOU should have called me on it. Shane just shook his head when talked about it at supper.
Click to expand...



Shane proved the rack wasn't right in a conversation? Sounds like svb is a guy who knows how to cheat a rack.
 
Pros

If it makes the game Fair for the players and avoids ball herding I'm for it. If it gives the breaker an unfair advantage....then its not good for the sport. I think tho, if ya make a solid on a big table, you should shoot a solid, unless the other ball group is down also. Game gets very interesting when this happens.
 
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