APA 8 Ball???

Oh No

brandoncook26 said:
Talked to someone at the poolroom last night who plays on the APA 8 ball league. She said that it is a slop league, meaning all you have to do is hit a ball in your group and if you make any of your balls you can continue your inning. The only ball you have to call is the eight.

Is this true? Does anyone who plays this format like it. I have never played 8 ball that is not call pocket. To me, that kind of takes some of the skill out of it. What do you think?
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I absolutely forbid you to take that beautiful car anywhere near APA strongholds :yikes::yikes:

You will come away with "door dingies" and, as an added bonus, you will also come away with dings in your shaft....I speak from experience, no matter where I try to hide my cues someone always manages to knock them over :angry:

:grin::grin:
 
Hmmm

lukemindish said:
If you all didnt know APA stands for Any Pocket Asshole. Worst rule ever.
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I think he just summed it up perfectly. Still not sure why the "lesser" players cannot be bothered to learn the rules of 8ball? Can "lesser" players still have fun playing by real rules so when they play elsewhere they don't look like idiots because they don't know the rules.

You guys mentioned a lot of the shortcomings of the APA rules, but lets not forget the safety problem,,, you call safety but make the ball.... oh well, you just hooked yourself because you have to keep shooting because slop counts and thus you "slopped" one in and thus must keep shooting.

And lets not forget the "sandbagging" that is pretty easy to do in the APA, and most coaches teach their players.... my old coach told me stop making some balls and start increase my innings.... told him the only way to play is to make balls and beat the other guy. I didn't give 2 craps about "innings" or whatever that was... of course our team had to break up due to the "23" rule because we didn't sandbag enough. I was not too disappointed as it was really just a practice night so I can get ready for the BCA league the next night !!
 
dabarbr said:
Actually in money games I would prefer to play by the rule "you got what you make on the break". If I'm the better eight ball player you will have to beat me playing eight ball and not a game of just run the balls. Which is why just a fair player can run racks with open after the break rules.

Open table after the break takes a lot of the eight ball skills out of the game and just becomes a who has the better break. IMO this is the worse rule in eight ball and introduced just to speed the game up a bit.

With the "you got what you make" rules if you make a solid and they are in difficult positions for the run out, you will need eight ball skills to win that game, knowing when to abort the run, breakout shots, combos, safeties, and many other various moves that come with eight ball.

I've spent many years developing my eight game and now with the open table rule after the break a lot of these skills have become useless. This rule is not as old as many think it is.

However I do like the call pocket rule versus slop.
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I agree with you but my problem is when I make a solid on the break and have absolutely no shot at any of my balls and the table is wide open for my opponent. That has nothing to do with skill it's bad luck but you'd be suprised how often it happens so, it's like i'm getting punished for making a ball on the break.
 
Has anyone stopped to consider the fact that the 'take what you make' rule and the 'slop counts' rule are what they are because a good portion of the APA is played on bar tables? Once a ball is down, its down.

Chris
 
hdgis1 said:
Has anyone stopped to consider the fact that the 'take what you make' rule and the 'slop counts' rule are what they are because a good portion of the APA is played on bar tables? Once a ball is down, its down.

Chris
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A very good point, one that I hadn't considered, since our APA league is played on regular tables save for one place that takes the panel off the ball returns on the coin-op tables for league night. I expect you may be on to something here, many places might not be willing to do that, even for leagues.

One less thing to worry about, especially in a league that is often played in bars, all over the country.

Personally, I find the "teach the lesser players the REAL rules" argument a bit humorous in any event. Everyone that I play locally (and lord knows I am one of the "lesser" players, heh) knows the difference. When we get to the tables to play, if you don't already know the person and/or what they prefer the question is "APA or bar rules?" And as we all know, even the bar rules differ from place to place. Probably in part due to the coin-op issue pointed out by hdgis1.
 
hdgis1 said:
Has anyone stopped to consider the fact that the 'take what you make' rule and the 'slop counts' rule are what they are because a good portion of the APA is played on bar tables? Once a ball is down, its down.

Chris
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I don't think this is a very valid argument. ACS and BCA are both played on bar tables, at least in my area, and neither one incorporates either of these rules.

I think it is simply a choice of rules to accommodate, as justadub puts it, the "lesser" players. I agree that if you had 2's and 3's calling shots and navigating clusters it would significantly lengthen the game.

In my opinion, I would much rather play with the group I made on the break (although I don't really agree with that rule) and play call ball in pocket. My original point is that I think "slop" takes the skill of moving through the rack out. I guess that's why there is more than one successful league system. APA is kind of the minors, or farm system for the other leagues. I think the APA is a good thing. People of all levels can choose the style of play and difficulty of competition that suits them best.

Everyone knows what the APA is. It really is a decent league as long as you know what it is, and you accept to play within the given construct of the rules before hand. If you accept that, you can play and compete effectively until you have attained a level of play that no longer suits that league.
 
hdgis1 said:
Has anyone stopped to consider the fact that the 'take what you make' rule and the 'slop counts' rule are what they are because a good portion of the APA is played on bar tables? Once a ball is down, its down.

Chris
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Are your saying that when you play open table after the break and call shot that you spot any balls that you sink on the break but don't take or sink but don't call?

Otherwise I don't have a clue what being on a bar table has to do with it.
 
poolhustla61508 said:
I agree with you but my problem is when I make a solid on the break and have absolutely no shot at any of my balls and the table is wide open for my opponent. That has nothing to do with skill it's bad luck but you'd be suprised how often it happens so, it's like i'm getting punished for making a ball on the break.
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It's not surprising to see a good eight ball player win many games from the situation you described. Some of the eight ball skills I'm talking about are to be able to rearrange the table so that your opponent will have some risks involved with his run that may allow you back up to the table.
 
9 ball is a slop game and nobody complains...

The greatest players in the world are playing a slop game on TV and nobody seems to complain about it, so why is a slop game of 8 ball such a big deal? Really good players rarely slop a ball anyway...
 
hdgis1 said:
Has anyone stopped to consider the fact that the 'take what you make' rule and the 'slop counts' rule are what they are because a good portion of the APA is played on bar tables? Once a ball is down, its down.

Chris
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I don't think so because if the table is locked up you can't use a red circle cue ball. Also nobody seems to be mentioning the major rules the APA does use that are vastly different from the way 95% of recreational bar players play- ball in hand, and table fouls.
 
brandoncook26 said:
Talked to someone at the poolroom last night who plays on the APA 8 ball league. She said that it is a slop league, meaning all you have to do is hit a ball in your group and if you make any of your balls you can continue your inning. The only ball you have to call is the eight.

Is this true? Does anyone who plays this format like it. I have never played 8 ball that is not call pocket. To me, that kind of takes some of the skill out of it. What do you think?
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Yes, it is true and I love it.

Other leagues, like TAP, require that you call your pocket. Also, TAP is so anal that they require that you count every friggin ball that goes in.

These 'call your pocket people' think they are hot sh!ts, like they are wanna be Fast Eddie Felson on a 150 ball run - 5 in the corner, 10 ball cross-side. This is pure freakin laughable because 90% of them can't shoot worth a crap. ALL the people I know who have played APA and TAP HATE TAP. Call your balls, count your pots.

We need to keep life as simple as possible in these amateur leagues.
 
My personal opinion is that the APA started for people like me. I enjoy playing but was always intimidated by good players. I am still learning and this is the only way I can play and enjoy it. I also like having a night out with friends and being able to win once in a while. Yes, I slop balls in, but more and more I am actually getting to where I can make the balls where I intend to. But in the end, it is all about having fun and having a night out with people I care about and enjoying their company. I agree it gets frustrating when you have a LO that isn't very good and you always have the people cheating or sandbagging to win, but that is sad that you would have to do that in an APA league. There are bigger and better places for those types of people to shoot, but not really for players like me. Like I said this is just my personal opinion.
 
brandoncook26 said:
That sounds like they are trying to appeal to the bar/banger crowd. The only time I see people play take what you make on the break is when they really can't play. I've never seen a skilled player not play open table after the break.
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Before you take too negative a stance on not calling shots, you might want to review the rules of One Pocket... and don't even get me started on Snooker...

Dale<not exactly a banger>
 
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Keith Buck said:
Are your saying that when you play open table after the break and call shot that you spot any balls that you sink on the break but don't take or sink but don't call?

Otherwise I don't have a clue what being on a bar table has to do with it.
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The way I understand it, in BCA if you make a ball of your own that you didn't intend, or you make it in a different pocket than what you called, you would have to spot that ball. If you are playing on a bar table, you can't do that, unless the room owners open up the tables for you on league night.

{I don't play BCA so I'm not sure if I'm correct. Those are the local house rules where I play, when not on League night. And a simple APA player like myself can even tell the difference, who'dathunk it?}
 
dabarbr said:
It's not surprising to see a good eight ball player win many games from the situation you described. Some of the eight ball skills I'm talking about are to be able to rearrange the table so that your opponent will have some risks involved with his run that may allow you back up to the table.
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I agree but there are circumstances, especially when your playing another strong player that just tying something up probably means your still going to lose the game because your giving up control of the table.

Thinking about it, this could happen in eight ball when its open after the break as well although its not as likely.....Doesn't matter though I was just sharing one of my complaints about the rules but that doesn't change the fact the bar table 8 ball is my favorite game by far no matter what the rules....:thumbup:
 
justadub said:
The way I understand it, in BCA if you make a ball of your own that you didn't intend, or you make it in a different pocket than what you called, you would have to spot that ball. If you are playing on a bar table, you can't do that, unless the room owners open up the tables for you on league night.

{I don't play BCA so I'm not sure if I'm correct. Those are the local house rules where I play, when not on League night. And a simple APA player like myself can even tell the difference, who'dathunk it?}
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your local house has modified the BCAPL rules. The official rules can be found here: http://playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook.aspx

when either your object ball is pocketed in the wrong pocket or a non-called ball is pocketed instead, the balls do stay down but the shooter's inner is over. Slop in the BCAPL doesn't count.
 
Holly said:
your local house has modified the BCAPL rules. The official rules can be found here: http://playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook.aspx

when either your object ball is pocketed in the wrong pocket or a non-called ball is pocketed instead, the balls do stay down but the shooter's inner is over. Slop in the BCAPL doesn't count.
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So if I fire a ball at the corner pocket, it hits both nipples, flies across to the opposite side rail, and spins back into the pocket I called, it doesn't count? What about a cross-side bank that actually goes three rails, a shot that is probably further off the mark than the one that goes two rails into the wrong pocket?

Slop counts in the BCAPL, as long as you're just a little lucky (unintended carom off another ball) or you're a lot lucky, enough to make the right ball in the right pocket. It's just the intermediate luck that doesn't count.

Not trying to start anything Holly, it's just a pet peeve of mine when someone says slop doesn't count in a call-pocket game. The only game where slop doesn't count to some degree is call-everything, including other pocketed balls. Nobody plays that game.
 
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APA Operator said:
So if I fire a ball at the corner pocket, it hits both nipples, flies across to the opposite side rail, and spins back into the pocket I called, it doesn't count? What about a cross-side bank that actually goes three rails, a shot that is probably further off the mark than the one that goes two rails into the wrong pocket?

Slop counts in the BCAPL, as long as you're just a little lucky (unintended carom off another ball) or you're a lot lucky, enough to make the right ball in the right pocket. It's just the intermediate luck that doesn't count.

Not trying to start anything Holly, it's just a pet peeve of mine when someone says slop doesn't count in a call-pocket game. The only game where slop doesn't count to some degree is call-everything, including other pocketed balls. Nobody plays that game.
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OK. Technically slop counts in only one of the pockets in BCA versus all 6 pockets in APA. But at least I shot it in the right pocket. And due to your connection to the APA, could you really disagree with APA?? I mean, there is some "crap" I'm not to thrilled about with the company I work for, but I'm not going on a forum and blasting them for it.

but is there a mental defect or disease in beginnners that won't allow them to process regulation rules that most of the rest of the civilized world utilizes. My son is 11 and he has no problem playing by regulation rules and not some made up BS so players can feel good about making a ball in a pocket they had no intention, or losing a game because they did not place a "thinging" on the pocket when shooting the 8, or getting hooked on the break because he made solids, and stripes are wide open.
That is my biggest grip about the APA as they are bringing new people to the game but filling their tiny little brains with erroneous information. Heck, I"ll bet not one person would quit APA based on playing with some regulation rules.........
 
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