APA 9-ball, you get a point per ball?

P

PocketPoint

Banned
I was reading the rules for handicapping, and I believe they keep score by giving a point per ball, and 2 points for the 9.

A good way to ruin the game it sounds like to me!
 
The thing is there are apa players that play each other that can make about one in five shots on a good day. The entire game up until they got to the eight ball would be a complete waste of time with no reason to feel good about making any balls. If only the nine counted then they should just start with just the eight and the nine on the table and take fifteen innings for someone to win the game.

I would love to see the time outs if it were normal rules. "Okay, you can make the three with a stop shot so you'll be on the right side of the four to get shape on the five. Then you'll need a good angle for the break out. Oh what am I talking about just ride the nine."
 
Kinda ruins the game in my opinion. BUT if you are going to have handicapped games, with player rankings from 2-7, it actually makes sense over the course of the league.

It makes it easier to get others involved and interested in the game at a lower level. As far as I am concerned, that is what 8-ball is for :)
 
I like the points for the 1 through 8 balls. The handicap system would be moot without it. I just wish the male 2's and 3's would be moved up in levels. Seems like there's a lot of guy's with skills that aren't being accurately ranked.
 
PocketPoint said:
I was reading the rules for handicapping, and I believe they keep score by giving a point per ball, and 2 points for the 9.

A good way to ruin the game it sounds like to me!
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Tha APA gears everything towards helping the weaker player to have a chance of winning. With the points system in 9 ball it helps the weaker player more than ever. You could have a player that would never ever have a chance at beating anyone, suddenly be dominating in league play. I've seen it.

One night my team captain wanted to play me against the skill level 1 the other team put up. I flat out told him no, I wasn't going to play a 55 to 14 race. He proceeded to say I was a baby and started making whining sounds, etc. So he played her. And she beat him, badly. I refrained from saying anything to him. I just let him stew.

Just like I said earlier, this girl hardly knew which end of the cue to use, but she still beat a SL5 easily.
 
It is not true 9-ball. It is basically rotation using a 9-ball rack, and 10 available points per rack. One point each for the 1-8 and 2 points for the 9.

While I am not a big fan of it, it does give the lower skill level players a chance to compete against much better players. The spots are pretty good ones:
SL1--14 balls
SL2--19 balls
SL3--25 balls
SL4--31 balls
SL5--38 balls
SL6--46 balls
SL7--55 balls
SL8--65 balls
SL9--75 balls

Folks who who have NO chance of winning at regular 9 ball at least have a chance to win with this kind of spot.

For the stronger players who want to play 9-ball in the APA, I strongly recommend the Master's League. Mostly very good players and legitimate 8 and 9 ball races...no spots.

Joe
 
APA 9 ball

I played this format a few years ago and learned quickly when giving big ball count spots the importance of early safety play. The most brutal rule though is no pushout after the break. Make a ball on the break, miss your kick and they get an easy table. I lost like this one time spotting 55-18. In traditional nine ball against bangers shooting low percentage shots usually does not cost you the game. When they only need 2-4 balls a game to win, you got to play them like you would a pro. Don't give them a look. Just like a pro would do when giving us the 6 out or any big spot.
 
FastJK said:
I played this format a few years ago and learned quickly when giving big ball count spots the importance of early safety play. The most brutal rule though is no pushout after the break. Make a ball on the break, miss your kick and they get an easy table. I lost like this one time spotting 55-18. In traditional nine ball against bangers shooting low percentage shots usually does not cost you the game. When they only need 2-4 balls a game to win, you got to play them like you would a pro. Don't give them a look. Just like a pro would do when giving us the 6 out or any big spot.
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When I used to play CPA (Canadian division of APA), and played a player lower than a 5, I would forfeit the break. Caused a lot of confusion, but it ended up really raising my win/loss percentage against lower ranked players. When I would break, I'd either make a ball with no shot at the next ball, or I wouldn't make a thing, and the table would be a roadmap. Decided to let the other player do the dirty work. It's not going to be a very clean rack when a 1 or 2 breaks, so their chances of picking off 2-3 balls is unlikely.
 
cycopath said:
Tha APA gears everything towards helping the weaker player to have a chance of winning. With the points system in 9 ball it helps the weaker player more than ever. You could have a player that would never ever have a chance at beating anyone, suddenly be dominating in league play. I've seen it.

One night my team captain wanted to play me against the skill level 1 the other team put up. I flat out told him no, I wasn't going to play a 55 to 14 race. He proceeded to say I was a baby and started making whining sounds, etc. So he played her. And she beat him, badly. I refrained from saying anything to him. I just let him stew.

Just like I said earlier, this girl hardly knew which end of the cue to use, but she still beat a SL5 easily.
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If she didn't know which end of the cue to hold and beat an SL5 easily I would say the SL5 should not be a 5 OR maybe she was a bit better then perceived OR the SL5 is not as good as he thinks. What amazes me on the league players perception is it is always the opponent's fault they lost because of a HC, it has nothing to do with the guy that lost missing so many balls or making a ton of mistakes. I played as a SL9 back when I was in the APA and don't ever recall seeing a 1 in Vegas or locally that stood a chance of beating a decent SL6 or above that had heart to win.
 
bboxgrinder, that night the SL1 played above her ability, and the SL5 played below his ability. Like with everyone there are peaks and valleys in our individual shooting ability from one night to the next. That particular evening her's was up and his was low.

I knew if her's was up, I'd have a hell of a time getting to the finish line before her. Just as FastJK posted, with the pushout being eliminated if you break, hook yourself and subsequently foul your opponent has a great chance of getting at least a couple balls. If that happens even every other rack, she'd be out before me.
 
I really enjoy playing APA 9ball and the points system is very fair from my view, I've been a 7 for about 7 years and locked in from vegas. My wife is a strong 3 and we play races 55 to 25and I have to play a bunch of good safety's or she will win easily, so doesn't that imply that the system works pretty good. I have very little problem beating the 5's 6's and 9's in our area but the other good 7's and 8's I play in our division are tough and it comes down to who can make a ball on the break and get a shot to start a run. I have beat one nine in our room with him still needing 40 balls once and 35 balls the next time we played but last week I had a 42 to 20 lead on another 7 and lost because I missed a combination and really never had another makeable shot in three racks. I think the APA in our area is as good as it gets and I don't sandbag I just try to play the best player on the other team every week that I play.--Leonard
 
cycopath said:
bboxgrinder, that night the SL1 played above her ability, and the SL5 played below his ability. Like with everyone there are peaks and valleys in our individual shooting ability from one night to the next. That particular evening her's was up and his was low.

I knew if her's was up, I'd have a hell of a time getting to the finish line before her. Just as FastJK posted, with the pushout being eliminated if you break, hook yourself and subsequently foul your opponent has a great chance of getting at least a couple balls. If that happens even every other rack, she'd be out before me.
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Yes I certainly understand up and low peaks of players. However the up peak of a SL1 is not exactly UP. I do agree the peak of a SL5 can for sure vary from night to night. As for the no push after break, the APA format is meant to play different then actual REAL 9ball. If you are worried about fouling off the break don't crush the balls, control the cue ball. All in all it still boils down to the play of the upper level player, not the play of the SL1. Dodging a SL1 is like ummm... lol I won't say no more. :p
 
I wasn't so much dodging the girl, but rather I thought it was a dumb move on our part as a team effort. Too much of a gamble, when we needed the points.

And the girl did go up to a SL2 the next week.
 
low handicaps could win handicapped Texas Express !

Bamacues said:

Folks who who have NO chance of winning at regular 9 ball at least have a chance to win with this kind of spot.



Joe
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I believe lower-skilled players could win at handicapped Texas Express . If the handicaps represented game count , and a s/l1 needed one game before a s/l9 got nine games , it could be as simple as a 9OS after winning a lag , a kiss out off any ball (APA 9ballers currently AVOID the kiss out like syphilus) or the higher skilled player missing/scratching on the 8.
Discounting their threat would involve running a 9-pack .
Thats Earl territory , not usually APA territory . . . . . ;)

playing game count would lead to more matches being played even (s/l3 v. s/l3) instead of being "thrown off" (s/l1 v. s/l9)
 
I agree. Lower SL's have a better chance at winning REAL 9ball then APA format. They only need to make 1 ball to win vs a ball count. AND can cr** in a combo or a rider.

On playing a game count, getting more games to play, that I don't agree. TAP league uses that and with the 9 being made out of turn there was constant complaing here from people that they didn't get enough play for their money. Sounds strange but true.

One thing the APA format does is give more entertainment/play for the $$. I don't really care for the format myself but do think for your low level players, even average players in some cases the APA format is better for them.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
When I used to play CPA (Canadian division of APA), and played a player lower than a 5, I would forfeit the break. Caused a lot of confusion, but it ended up really raising my win/loss percentage against lower ranked players. When I would break, I'd either make a ball with no shot at the next ball, or I wouldn't make a thing, and the table would be a roadmap. Decided to let the other player do the dirty work. It's not going to be a very clean rack when a 1 or 2 breaks, so their chances of picking off 2-3 balls is unlikely.
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Giving somebody the break in APA 9 ball is utterly insane.

What one needs to do is to learn how to park the cue ball in the middle of the table after the break.

Face it, your stats probably went up because you have a lousy break. For example, if you give an SL5 the break you are more than likely to get killed if they get a good jump on you. It has happened to me enough times.

And, if you break the chances of SLs 1-3 making enough balls up front to kill you is slim.

APA 9 ball is not a game where you let the other people do the dirty work. A smart player will bury you every time.

Regards.
 
whitewolf said:
Giving somebody the break in APA 9 ball is utterly insane.

What one needs to do is to learn how to park the cue ball in the middle of the table after the break.

Face it, your stats probably went up because you have a lousy break. For example, if you give an SL5 the break you are more than likely to get killed if they get a good jump on you. It has happened to me enough times.

And, if you break the chances of SLs 1-3 making enough balls up front to kill you is slim.

APA 9 ball is not a game where you let the other people do the dirty work. A smart player will bury you every time.

Regards.
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Thanks for the advice. Using my strategy, I won the Top Gun and MVP awards as a 7/8 in my division the last 2 sessions I played. It wasn't that my break is lousy. It was the fact that not having a push after the break gave me no advantage.

Now, just to let you know, we play on tables that make a Diamond seem loose. Dufferin tables with a shelf that is so long, you can nearly hide the ball behind the pocket facing, and it won't drop. Making balls on the break is a rare occurrence at our hall. Whenever we played an away game at the other hall in town that had Brunswicks, I would take the break, as I was much more likely to make 1-3 balls. Had a few breaks at that location where I made 4-5. Yeah, my break is lousy.
 
whitewolf said:
Giving somebody the break in APA 9 ball is utterly insane.

What one needs to do is to learn how to park the cue ball in the middle of the table after the break.

Face it, your stats probably went up because you have a lousy break. For example, if you give an SL5 the break you are more than likely to get killed if they get a good jump on you. It has happened to me enough times.

And, if you break the chances of SLs 1-3 making enough balls up front to kill you is slim.

APA 9 ball is not a game where you let the other people do the dirty work. A smart player will bury you every time.

Regards.
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BTW, this is why pool is going nowhere, and will never go anywhere. Too many jerks that need to make themselves feel better by criticizing another player. People like you make me question why I love the game so much. But, you continue being you. I feel sorry for you, because you'll never learn. You already know what does and doesn't work.
 
I did not know that forfeiting the break was permissible.

Shawn Armstrong said:
When I used to play CPA (Canadian division of APA), and played a player lower than a 5, I would forfeit the break. Caused a lot of confusion, but it ended up really raising my win/loss percentage against lower ranked players. When I would break, I'd either make a ball with no shot at the next ball, or I wouldn't make a thing, and the table would be a roadmap. Decided to let the other player do the dirty work. It's not going to be a very clean rack when a 1 or 2 breaks, so their chances of picking off 2-3 balls is unlikely.
Click to expand...
 
PocketPoint said:
I was reading the rules for handicapping, and I believe they keep score by giving a point per ball, and 2 points for the 9.

A good way to ruin the game it sounds like to me!
Click to expand...

I like it far more then "normal" 9 ball.
 
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