Apa/bca....pga/champions tour

M

Mowem down

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So if I got it straight. The APA wont use Diamond Tables because there is a conflict of interest (putting money in Marks pocket the millions it would be Im sure) even though were all suppose to be promoters of the same great game...

Lets take a look at another great game (wich in some circles is held in a little higher regard than the billiard industry)... Even though they are both needing the same sponsors to feed them cash the PGA, promotes, runs ads, hell they even show clips of the Champions tour during coverage of their events wich uses air time they paid for...

I wonder what is better for the growth of your bank roll, I mean of the game you say you love...

I dont know this Mark guy and he could, in real life be a little d*ck ( thats mowem downs favorite term for a pud of a human) but from what you can see from the out side looking in, it sure does sceme like hes trying to do alot of good things for pool and im sure any money (the millions it surly would be) that came to him from table rentals would go in a good direction...

You would think the APA would want the leagues he runs to expand that way more players ratings could go up more teames could break up, the 7's, 8's and 9's can all leave (the APA will tell you straight to your face their league is for the lower rated players, end quote) and go play real pool and they can bring in more new players to start the cycle over....

P.S. I didnt check to see if the PGA owns the Champions tour, why ?, because I would still beleave its a good point....
 
Mowem down...You DON'T know Mark Griffin, or you would never make such a stupid remark. The problems between the BCA and the APA are long-standing, and decades old. The real reasons why the APA National Office does not use Diamond tables, at their national events, is known only to them and to Mark...and it's THEIR business. Local APA L.O.'s are welcome to use Diamond tables, and many do. Stop speculating on things you know nothing about...and invest in a dictionary will ya? :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Mowem down said:
So if I got it straight. The APA wont use Diamond Tables because there is a conflict of interest (putting money in Marks pocket the millions it would be Im sure) even though were all suppose to be promoters of the same great game...

I wonder what is better for the growth of your bank roll, I mean of the game you say you love...

I dont know this Mark guy and he could, in real life be a little d*ck ( thats mowem downs favorite term for a pud of a human) but from what you can see from the out side looking in, it sure does sceme like hes trying to do alot of good things for pool and im sure any money (the millions it surly would be) that came to him from table rentals would go in a good direction...

You would think the APA would want the leagues he runs to expand that way more players ratings could go up more teames could break up, the 7's, 8's and 9's can all leave (the APA will tell you straight to your face their league is for the lower rated players, end quote) and go play real pool and they can bring in more new players to start the cycle over....

P.S. I didnt check to see if the PGA owns the Champions tour, why ?, because I would still beleave its a good point....
Click to expand...
 
you got a big mouth...

Scott Lee said:
Mowem down...You DON'T know Mark Griffin, or you would never make such a stupid remark. The problems between the BCA and the APA are long-standing, and decades old. The real reasons why the APA National Office does not use Diamond tables, at their national events, is known only to them and to Mark...and it's THEIR business. Local APA L.O.'s are welcome to use Diamond tables, and many do. Stop speculating on things you know nothing about...and invest in a dictionary will ya? :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

you got a big mouth from behind your key board.... Its been said on here many times the reason the APA doesnt use Diamonds is because of conflict of interest I wasnt speculating on anything I was making a comment after thinking about the situation, after reading Marks comments in a differnt thread...

If your ever out in the N.W. giving lessons make sure its public info I'll gladly be the first the sign up, then you can, not only help me with my pool game but can tell me how stupid I am and give me some spelling lessons in person. I am 100 % that it will be well worth every penny, given "your" overwhelming level of intelligence.....
 
Starting trouble again I see...

The comments about Mark Griffin were foolish regardless of what you "read" another post. I really don't see what your point is anyway. APA won't use them on a national level, who cares.

If the APA doesn't want to take advantage of some of the best tables available, more power to them. They (and their members) are the one's missing out. Conflict of interest or not, Mark is a stand up guy that does A LOT for the game on many many many many levels. Personally I think you should shut your pie hole about things you apparently know very little about. I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but your post serves no purpose other than to stir things up. There's too much of that going on here anyway. Cheers!


Mowem down said:
you got a big mouth from behind your key board.... Its been said on here many times the reason the APA doesnt use Diamonds is because of conflict of interest I wasnt speculating on anything I was making a comment after thinking about the situation, after reading Marks comments in a differnt thread...

If your ever out in the N.W. giving lessons make sure its public info I'll gladly be the first the sign up, then you can, not only help me with my pool game but can tell me how stupid I am and give me some spelling lessons in person. I am 100 % that it will be well worth every penny, given "your" overwhelming level of intelligence.....
Click to expand...
 
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Mowem down said:
So if I got it straight. The APA wont use Diamond Tables because there is a conflict of interest (putting money in Marks pocket the millions it would be Im sure) even though were all suppose to be promoters of the same great game...

Lets take a look at another great game (wich in some circles is held in a little higher regard than the billiard industry)... Even though they are both needing the same sponsors to feed them cash the PGA, promotes, runs ads, hell they even show clips of the Champions tour during coverage of their events wich uses air time they paid for...

I wonder what is better for the growth of your bank roll, I mean of the game you say you love...

I dont know this Mark guy and he could, in real life be a little d*ck ( thats mowem downs favorite term for a pud of a human) but from what you can see from the out side looking in, it sure does sceme like hes trying to do alot of good things for pool and im sure any money (the millions it surly would be) that came to him from table rentals would go in a good direction...

You would think the APA would want the leagues he runs to expand that way more players ratings could go up more teames could break up, the 7's, 8's and 9's can all leave (the APA will tell you straight to your face their league is for the lower rated players, end quote) and go play real pool and they can bring in more new players to start the cycle over....

P.S. I didnt check to see if the PGA owns the Champions tour, why ?, because I would still beleave its a good point....
Click to expand...

You do know that Renee Lyle (President of the APA) is on the BCA Board of Directors? I hardly think there is a conflict between both leagues or her and Mark.
 
The BCA Board & the BCA Pool Leagues are two totally separate entities no longer affiliated with each other since Mark bought the BCA leagues. The fact that the APA president is on the BCA Board in no way means the APA & the BCA leagues have a healthy relationship. Honestly I think all the leagues (APA, BCA, VNEA, etc...) go out of their way to screw each other over.
 
APA & Diamond Tables

Here is the facts:

Diamond did supply the tables for the APA for about 1-2 years back around 2003 or so. (I could get the actual dates but it does NOT make any difference).

In this same time frame, the BCA was deciding to sell off the legue program. Mark Griffin (who was on the BOD of the BCA) argued very hard for them to keep the leagues. I excused myself from most of the discussions and the Board voted to sell off the leagues. The bidding on the purchase was completed and the papers were effective April 1. 2004.

Diamond was notified (very shortly) that they would no longer be providing the tables for APA. It was mentioned it was because I had purchased the league.

I saw Terry Bell and Larry Hubbart at the BCA trade show. Suggested that perhaps we (as in ALL the leagues) could work together to create more players - since I don't view them as competitors - but rather see video games and such as competitors. Even had a few suggestions.

Terry Bell's comment was :I will never work with you - you are my competition. (This is real close to a quote). Keep in mind, I have known Terry since he came through Alaska in 1969 and into the 1970's.

Also keep in mind that the APA was the main reson the BCA sold the league - which was the worst thing the BCA could do - but was a great 'move' on APA part.

This is also the same time frame that John Lewis (who ran the BCA League Program for years) tried to STEAL the whole league program. The end result is the ACS was formed.

So - first of all Klockdoc is wrong. I think there is a conflict between the leagues. I don't think Diamond should be in the middle. Valley is more of a competitior than Diamond ever will be. (I also do not get involved in the day-to-day operations of Diamond).

I think there is WAY TOO MUCH backstabbing etc between the leagues. I have tried to extend good faith to others but it does not get far.

I think Mowem down was pretty accurate in his thoughts. Scott Lee said the problems were long standing. I only know about the ones since 2004. Any previous problems should not have any bearing.

When I purchased the leagues it was to make them grow and to try to improve things. There were some that were trying to keep Diamonds out of any national events and I really wanted the players to experience playing on them. That is why I bought the league. It was not to compete with APA.

But what the APA is doing is turning all others into their competitors. They shoud try to make pool grow - but in reality, they are only interested in the money. They could do so much more for pool but there is no interest - and that is a shame.

Mark Griffin
702-719-7665
www.playbca.com
markg@playbca.com
 
Mark...Nice post! Thanks for the clarification. My only point, from Mowem down, was that he appeared (to me) to insult your integrity, and personally I take offense at that. You're one of the "bright lights" in our sport, and have done some amazing things, over the long term, and particularly of late! :thumbup:

It's true that the 'conflict' between the APA and BCA is long standing. When I became an APA L.O. (1992), there was DEFINITELY animosity coming from both sides (John Lewis and Terry Bell). In fact, they (the APA parent company) did not like it one bit that I was a BCA Certified Instructor, and had both the APA and BCA logos on my business card. Since I have always been out to promote the sport, I didn't care what they thought (and as a franchisee, didn't have to). I did, however, offer to Terry & Larry (in a closed meeting), to spearhead a drive to create a cadre of "APA-Certified" instructors. I had a completed business plan, which would have cost them ZERO dollars (other than perhaps a little postage), offered to co-ordinate, train, and follow up with the group. Their eyes kinda "glazed over" when I mentioned this concept (this was in '93, after I won two national awards with their company)...and I got a flat turndown..."We're not interested.", I believe was the reply. It seems things have not changed! :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Mark Griffin said:
Here is the facts:

Diamond did supply the tables for the APA for about 1-2 years back around 2003 or so. (I could get the actual dates but it does NOT make any difference).

In this same time frame, the BCA was deciding to sell off the legue program. Mark Griffin (who was on the BOD of the BCA) argued very hard for them to keep the leagues. I excused myself from most of the discussions and the Board voted to sell off the leagues. The bidding on the purchase was completed and the papers were effective April 1. 2004.

Diamond was notified (very shortly) that they would no longer be providing the tables for APA. It was mentioned it was because I had purchased the league.

I saw Terry Bell and Larry Hubbart at the BCA trade show. Suggested that perhaps we (as in ALL the leagues) could work together to create more players - since I don't view them as competitors - but rather see video games and such as competitors. Even had a few suggestions.

Terry Bell's comment was :I will never work with you - you are my competition. (This is real close to a quote). Keep in mind, I have known Terry since he came through Alaska in 1969 and into the 1970's.

Also keep in mind that the APA was the main reson the BCA sold the league - which was the worst thing the BCA could do - but was a great 'move' on APA part.

This is also the same time frame that John Lewis (who ran the BCA League Program for years) tried to STEAL the whole league program. The end result is the ACS was formed.

So - first of all Klockdoc is wrong. I think there is a conflict between the leagues. I don't think Diamond should be in the middle. Valley is more of a competitior than Diamond ever will be. (I also do not get involved in the day-to-day operations of Diamond).

I think there is WAY TOO MUCH backstabbing etc between the leagues. I have tried to extend good faith to others but it does not get far.

I think Mowem down was pretty accurate in his thoughts. Scott Lee said the problems were long standing. I only know about the ones since 2004. Any previous problems should not have any bearing.

When I purchased the leagues it was to make them grow and to try to improve things. There were some that were trying to keep Diamonds out of any national events and I really wanted the players to experience playing on them. That is why I bought the league. It was not to compete with APA.

But what the APA is doing is turning all others into their competitors. They shoud try to make pool grow - but in reality, they are only interested in the money. They could do so much more for pool but there is no interest - and that is a shame.

Mark Griffin
702-719-7665
www.playbca.com
markg@playbca.com
Click to expand...
 
Just to chime in on Mark promoting the sport and not seeing other leagues as competition...

I'm just starting up a USA Pool League in Charlotte (which is run nationally by Mark's company CSI) and I had to sign a code of ethics to be a league operator. Two lines in their code of ethics sealed the deal for me:
* We shall at all times treat all players, OTHER LEAGUES and the public with dignity, respect, and courtesy.
* We shall always conduct ourselves and our league business in a fair and honest manner refraining at all times from conduct or practices that INHIBIT THE EXPANSION OF POOL LEAGUES OR THAT REFLECT DISCREDIT UPON THE SPORT, other USAPL-scanctioned (or advertised as scantioned) leagues or the USAPL.

(caps added for emphasis).

So, I have agreed (and CSI has anyone who wants to run a USAPL league has to agree) in essence that I will not bash APA/VNEA/TAP/BCAPL/Aunt Edna's inhouse league/etc. I think this is a great thing and shows how much Mark and CSI want to help the sport grow in the US into something resembling order.

Should be interesting when I talk to the APA LO in Charlotte to extend an olive branch to her that the goal of the USAPL is not to run APA (and her franchise) out of town, but instead to offer an alternative to those who are disenfranchised with the current offerings available.

Brian
 
That's what I was reacting to as well.

I'm sure I over-reacted and should have refrained from using "pie hole". It isn't the first time. I just didn't like where the original post "appeared" to be headed. If I misunderstood the intent I apologize


Scott Lee said:
Mark...Nice post! Thanks for the clarification. My only point, from Mowem down, was that he appeared (to me) to insult your integrity, and personally I take offense at that. You're one of the "bright lights" in our sport, and have done some amazing things, over the long term, and particularly of late! :thumbup:

It's true that the 'conflict' between the APA and BCA is long standing. When I became an APA L.O. (1992), there was DEFINITELY animosity coming from both sides (John Lewis and Terry Bell). In fact, they (the APA parent company) did not like it one bit that I was a BCA Certified Instructor, and had both the APA and BCA logos on my business card. Since I have always been out to promote the sport, I didn't care what they thought (and as a franchisee, didn't have to). I did, however, offer to Terry & Larry (in a closed meeting), to spearhead a drive to create a cadre of "APA-Certified" instructors. I had a completed business plan, which would have cost them ZERO dollars (other than perhaps a little postage), offered to co-ordinate, train, and follow up with the group. Their eyes kinda "glazed over" when I mentioned this concept (this was in '93, after I won two national awards with their company)...and I got a flat turndown..."We're not interested.", I believe was the reply. It seems things have not changed! :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...
 
Brian...IMO, you don't even have to mention "those who are disenfranchised with the current offerings"! Just say that you are starting a new league, that, in no way, reflects any opposition to APA, or any other league. It's just another pool league opportunity. In my experience, many league players play in different leagues, at the same time...because they LIKE to play! :D Good luck to you. Charlotte is a good, pool-crazy town!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

btoneill said:
Should be interesting when I talk to the APA LO in Charlotte to extend an olive branch to her that the goal of the USAPL is not to run APA (and her franchise) out of town, but instead to offer an alternative to those who are disenfranchised with the current offerings available.

Brian
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
Brian...IMO, you don't even have to mention "those who are disenfranchised with the current offerings"! Just say that you are starting a new league, that, in no way, reflects any opposition to APA, or any other league. It's just another pool league opportunity. In my experience, many league players play in different leagues, at the same time...because they LIKE to play! :D Good luck to you. Charlotte is a good, pool-crazy town!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm continuing to play in APA and will of course be playing in the new league as well. To me both formats serve a different purpose and present different challenges, and a chance to meet people of all walks of life.

Brian
 
btoneill said:
[...]
Should be interesting when I talk to the APA LO in Charlotte to extend an olive branch to her that the goal of the USAPL is not to run APA (and her franchise) out of town, but instead to offer an alternative to those who are disenfranchised with the current offerings available.

Brian
Click to expand...

Brian:

Not to derail the thread, but would that APA LO in Charlotte be Eva Laurence? (I seem to recall an article in one of the "Big Three" pool periodicals that described Eva had just purchased the regional APA league in the NC area -- not sure if it were Charlotte or not...)

-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
Brian:

Not to derail the thread, but would that APA LO in Charlotte be Eva Laurence? (I seem to recall an article in one of the "Big Three" pool periodicals that described Eva had just purchased the regional APA league in the NC area -- not sure if it were Charlotte or not...)

-Sean
Click to expand...

No, she's down in Myrtle Beach, SC and is running the franchise down there.

Brian
 
Many many times.....

I have read posts on hear and thought I had a idea of what the person was saying just to watch replys pour in stating things that are in the totaly other direction. I have realized that very few people (including me) know how to use every key on the key board ( I have know Idea wich one is to come befor a sarcastic or jokeing comment) to make their point. I am glad that Mark while reading my post realized the 1 line that was darogatory in nature was a joke and the 4 that pointed out I felt he does alot of good for the game were truthfull, . Im sure for the some, it was hard to figure those things out and the comment "any money he would get from table rentals would go in the right direction" was hard to understand do to my lack of typing skills. of course :rolleyes:

I would have to say from the (limited) things Ive read, form a guy that was just speculating I HIT THE ******* NAIL ON THE HEAD, thank you very much.

I guess I might as well ad im done with the APA and switching to a in house BCA league the lastthing I would do is right out the gate come on here and tell the owner he's a little d*ck :p:D:D
 
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I did not read this....

ugotactionTX said:
I'm sure I over-reacted and should have refrained from using "pie hole". It isn't the first time. I just didn't like where the original post "appeared" to be headed. If I misunderstood the intent I apologize
Click to expand...

reply completely and did not see the word "apologize". So let me say any of the sarcasum in the above post that might have been pointed in your direction is with drawn. Like I stated its hard somtimes to know were the person is going you cant see their face or hear their voice, both of wich are a big part of cummunication
 
btoneill said:
Just to chime in on Mark promoting the sport and not seeing other leagues as competition...

I'm just starting up a USA Pool League in Charlotte (which is run nationally by Mark's company CSI) and I had to sign a code of ethics to be a league operator. Two lines in their code of ethics sealed the deal for me:
* We shall at all times treat all players, OTHER LEAGUES and the public with dignity, respect, and courtesy.
* We shall always conduct ourselves and our league business in a fair and honest manner refraining at all times from conduct or practices that INHIBIT THE EXPANSION OF POOL LEAGUES OR THAT REFLECT DISCREDIT UPON THE SPORT, other USAPL-scanctioned (or advertised as scantioned) leagues or the USAPL.

(caps added for emphasis).

So, I have agreed (and CSI has anyone who wants to run a USAPL league has to agree) in essence that I will not bash APA/VNEA/TAP/BCAPL/Aunt Edna's inhouse league/etc. I think this is a great thing and shows how much Mark and CSI want to help the sport grow in the US into something resembling order.

Should be interesting when I talk to the APA LO in Charlotte to extend an olive branch to her that the goal of the USAPL is not to run APA (and her franchise) out of town, but instead to offer an alternative to those who are disenfranchised with the current offerings available.

Brian
Click to expand...

KT Thompson is the APA LO for Charlotte, good luck with that olive branch, you'll need it.
 
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