APA equipment really puts the "Amature" in APA

[RackRunner]

Well, it sounds like everyone gets exactly the impression that I get. I would love to have an APA person respond to this thread, but my guess is that no one in the APA office knows what an "azbilliards" is.

Depressing...I hang on for my teammates alone...

KMRUNOUT

KM...get out while you still have your sanity...
I've taken three teams to Vegas for the 8 ball Nationals, three years in a row...the APA doesn't give a sh*t about anything except the almighty dollar. Great business plan though. Get everyone to play, jack up their skill levels so you can't continue to play with your friends. One team becomes two, two become four, four become eight, etc. etc. etc. My league operator moved a 5 to a 6 (by 1/100th of a point) in our LTC and that put us over 23 with me playing, so needless to say, we were done. He readily admitted to me later that he knew the guy wasn't a 6. In my opinion he did that just to stop my team from going. Bad business for him if the same guy's team wins four trips to Vegas in a row. P*ss on the APA...I'm done with it...

 

[JB Cases]

The Aramith ball is supposed to be Aramith's best bar table cue ball. Instead of a magnetic core it has the metal distributed throughout the ball. It marks up easily and feels funny when playing with it. Aramith has know for several years that this ball does not work well. They don't however have another option at present to compete with Diamond's optical sensor which allows Diamond tables to use any normal cueball.

The APA did use Diamonds for a brief time which was wonderful. Of course a Diamond "partner" buying the competing league killed that deal. Although it shouldn't have as the APA should be about presenting the best playing experience for the people who do manage to get to Vegas.

The APA doesn't really care about what your playing experience is elsewhere. Some leagues play on the worst equipment imagineable. Others have pro-quality equipment. To be in the APA means to be prepared for all conditions.

In the Olympics this past few weeks one quote stands out, an American Olympic gold medal winner was asked if the pollution in Beijing would be a problem, he said it might be but as long as everyone had to deal with it then it was the same problem for all the runners, and under the same conditions he was confident that he would prevail.

That's how I feel about the APA. Whatever the equipment is - though aggravating - it's the same for everyone playing. And masters players should be able to adjust to the conditions far easier than amateur players.

 

[back2good1]

Think of all the thousands of players that play BCA.... all year long they play on piece of shit globals and valley tables with different size pockets, different size/weight cue balls, and anything but simonis felt...

Then they get to Las Vegas and there is a sea of level, tight playing Diamond Bar boxes with red circle cue balls...

 

[JB Cases]

I can stay in a way better place then the big R in LV for five days for less then 500.

And keep in mind, most APA players play more then once a week. Their costs could be much higher.

APA players, joint a BCA league, save your cash, use that cash to attend BCA in LV. Have TONS more fun and play on better equipment.

:smile:

Um you must be going to a different Las Vegas than I have been going to for the last 12 years.

Where can you stay in a "better" place than the Riv for 5 days for less than $500? Unless you are talking some kind of sweet promo deal or some kind of comp because you already spent way more than that losing to another casino I don't see it. I have stayed in most places on the strip, extended stay places, private rentals and there doesn't seem to be any "better" place for less than $100 a day without some drawbacks. Either you are far away from the Riviera and have to incur costs and time and hassle to get back and forth from where you "live" or the place really isn't that great.

I definitely prefer the private condo/house route. It's really nice to come "home" after a whole day at the Riv. But most of the decent ones are going to be 10-20 miles from the strip which means a rental car.

We have gotten rooms at the Riv for $40 a night on someone else's Player cards. I am sure that this type of deal exists at other places. So of course the $80 suite at teh Venetian probably exists but I don't know how much of my soul I'd have to sell to get it.

The APA has it's place in pool. We in the billiard industry owe a debt of gratitude to the APA for bringing in millions of people to the sport who probably would not have started playing were it not for the APA. Still the APA is a bit heavy handed in it's approach to things. I guess that's how you are when you are the 800lb gorilla in the room.

The APA is not the league for advanced players though. It's pointless to complain about it. Go to the BCA if you want serious competition.

 

[RRfireblade]

APA is for social play only IMO. I've given up on anything outside of normal league night after too many trips to tri-county and beyod only to play on 7' slop tables with shag carpet. It's just a waste of time to spend any real energy on it. Might as well flip a coin on the outcome and spend the rest of the day at the beach.

 

[Ronoh]

Hell... now I'm not sure

I earned this patch, and proud of it. If you had a hard time adjusting to the table, it's not my fault.

http://doc.eaksr.com/Pool/apa9run.jpg

I've said it in the past, and I'll say it again. It's their pond, you're the fish in it. Choose your battles.

APA Vegas is grueling if your team looses once in the first 5 rounds, then it gets progressively worse.

I would rather do Singles than Team anyday. I'm sure there's of few of ya out there that would agree.

as to the O.P. --- If anyone is going to sound off and suggest that "a good player should be able to adjust to the equipment", post that in a different thread.

I apologize for disappointing you for adjusting to the equipment.

 

[TheNewSharkster]

The 7' tables with big pockets bother me more than the cue ball.

 

[TWOFORPOOL]

APA Equipment

You seem to be a "player" but not an experienced one. The first thing I do in playing in a national tournament is ask: WHAT EQUIPMENT ARE WE PLAYING ON! That includes what cue ball we are using. I played in this years APA Masters event and asked what cue ball we were going to use one month before tournament. I got that cue ball and practiced about 20 hours with it. The tables seem better than most bar boxes in the local taverns I play in.

I have been to 7 National APA events which included use all kinds of equipment to include the option of using a Red Circle cue ball if both players agreed one year.

Next year ask what equipment the APA will be using to include which cue ball. They will be more than happy to tell you. I also believe that the weighted ball is used by more people in the APA than any other cue ball.

I do understand your frustration. The first year I played they used the Red Circle cue ball. The second year I ASSUMED they were going to use a Red Circle cue ball again. They used the weight cue ball the second year and I wasn't prepared (as you were this year) and I didn't play up to speed because I wasn't use to the weighted ball.

 

[play8ball]

APA is a Racket

Well, yet another satisfied APA customer. They bait and switch constantly, and spoon feed their mid level players because that's their bread and butter. The APA is a farce, and not meant for anyone who actually likes to play pool. Play in the BCA, at least you're not financing whoever happens to be the league operator's "team du jour!"

 

[mongoose-]

I earned this patch, and proud of it. If you had a hard time adjusting to the table, it's not my fault.

http://doc.eaksr.com/Pool/apa9run.jpg

I've said it in the past, and I'll say it again. It's their pond, you're the fish in it. Choose your battles.

APA Vegas is grueling if your team looses once in the first 5 rounds, then it gets progressively worse.

I would rather do Singles than Team anyday. I'm sure there's of few of ya out there that would agree.

as to the O.P. --- If anyone is going to sound off and suggest that "a good player should be able to adjust to the equipment", post that in a different thread.

I apologize for disappointing you for adjusting to the equipment.

If that is all that makes an APA player happy I will sell you a bundle of those patches for a small fee.

 

[Koop]

If that is all that makes an APA player happy I will sell you a bundle of those patches for a small fee.

How much

J/K, I didn't even bother picking mine up. They just end up in the trash or my kids play with them anyway.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I think you've missed out on one clear concept of the APA. It's a league for players, not pro players like you. If you need to be coddled and spoiled every time you play, then get out of the $8 leagues. Go play semi-pro and pro events. If you're going to whine about the equipment, then go enter a $50 or $100 tourney, and play on Diamonds with Super Aramith balls.

If you walked around the room you play APA league out of, I dare you to ask 20 people the difference between a Super Aramith Red dot cueball and a green dot cueball. You may find 4 that know the answer, and I'm willing to bet the only ones that do are on your team, or part of your "whine" list you complain to after you get beat by another APA sandbagger.

Oh, yeah. The NFL does have rules regarding the ball. They do not, however, have a rule in regards to air temperature the game is played at. Tom Brady doesn't get to ask them to bump the outside temperature up 20 degrees because it was 68 on Tuesday when he was practicing long balls to Moss. Pool seems to be the only game where upper echelon players come to expect perfect conditions. Your opponent plays the same ball and same table. If you lost, you lost. Don't blame the equipment. If you're going to blame the cueball, then also blame your tip and cue. They caused you to lose, too.

Shawn,

I have come to respect your posts. They are typically well reasoned and I usually agree with you. That is why I feel like this post is a little out of character. Did you perceive my comments about the cue ball as whining? All I said was that I didn't care for the cue ball they used and don't see why they didn't do it differently.

First of all, I am not a pro player and don't expect to ever be. I don't need coddling or special treatment. In fact, I am specifically advocating STANDARD treatment, meaning I would like to see some standardization at least with respect to the cueball.

Oh, yeah. The NFL does have rules regarding the ball. They do not, however, have a rule in regards to air temperature the game is played at.

Yeah, that is exactly what I said before. My point was that the air temperature, etc. is about player comfort, while the ball specifically changes the physics of the game.


I wasn't complaining because I lost. I won both of my team matches. I played ok. That isn't the point. I am not an upper eschelon player. My teammate who is a low C player isn't either, but she cares about the cue ball too. I play APA league in a bar and I can guarantee that no one in the bar would know the difference between balls. They also wouldn't know the difference between tips (to use your analogy). Would you mind if the next time you need a new tip, you contact me, and I pick out a tip for you and you just put it on and don't know what it is? Do you know what tip you play with? My guess is that you do, and that it matters to you. Sure you can probably play alright with almost any tip, but how it FEELS and your level of enjoyment might be different.

This thread isn't about making excuses. It is about asking for ways to better ENJOY playing pool. I just played my league match against another 7 last night. It was in a hell hole with dense smoke (illegal in MA and quite offensive to me), a crappy table, and a 75 pound cue ball. I beat him 5-1 in very low innings. However, I did not enjoy the match at all. It was not fun to play on that table. My team needed the points, so I played. Otherwise I would avoid that place for no other reason than that it sucks. I don't like to do things that suck. There is nothing more to this thread than that. I'm just asking who else would like to see pool of all kinds and levels played at a higher level, in a better state. Do you not prefer better to worse?

Thanks for the feedback anyway:smile: and I look forward to enjoying your future posts,

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I dont know KMRUNOUT so I am not sticking up for him. I think he was entitled to not like the conditions he was playing in. I dont think he ever said it caused him to lose or wined about anything. I think he was stating his opinion. So to come on here and call him a winer and say he was blaming that on his loss is a little harsh

Chris,

Much appreciated. That is how I feel. Also, above where I mentioned about the humidity and all that...I was saying that everyone has to live with that stuff. Of course its nice to control that too, but whatever. I was pointing out that the change in cueball is MORE significant to the game than any of those other minor differences.

Anyway, thanks

KMRUNOUT

 

[inside_english]

OMG, the kid was probably ballin' cuz he didn't want to get hit in the noggin with a stray cue ball on a break. Please tell mom to sit him safely at the head of the table next time.

OR...stay away from the pool room if you can't find a sitter!

 

[stikapos]

Maybe I'm nuts for pointing this out, but the biggest issue I had with the equipment was indeed the cueball, but for a different reason than you might all think. Did anyone notice that the weighted aramiths were literally beat the death ?? Half the time, whenever on the rail or out on the cueball to put english on a shot, I'd miscue and facing the guys I was matched up against, that was a death sentence. Yes, you could hit the rail a mile away and still pocket balls. But the cloth was pretty decent and despite a few tables that settled, most were reasonably level. If I had any complaint at all about the APA, it sure ain't the cueball or the tables used. I mean, here I am at the Hard Rock, out at the pool, and there are foo foo chickies all over the dang place with thongs and bongs and whatever the heck they call themselves or their apparrel and I can't see much of it because I'm always too dang gum tired! Now, is that fair ???


LOL
tim

 

[KMRUNOUT]

"APA equipment really puts the Amateur in APA" was his title for this thread. APA stands for American Poolplayers Association, so there is no "Amateur" in APA. Everyone else had to play on the same equipment. To post a rant about the national event not having the EXACT cueball you are used to is a little immature. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If 75% of the field complained about the cueball, I'd listen. However, he's just getting pissy about the color of the dot on the Aramith ball. That, in my parts, is called whining.

Shawn,

The APA slogan is "The governing body of amature pool". That is where the amature reference comes from.

If you read my post carefully (actually not that carefully) you would see that I requested the use of ANY regular cue ball, not a bar ball. I referenced 3 Aramith products (since they are the sponsor) that all would have been better choices. My real preference is the blue circle Centennial cueball (also by Aramith, but probably not a good choice for a sponsored product ;-)

You already pointed out that the majority of players would not know the difference between cue balls (I doubt your numbers). So this isn't really about making them happy, since they will be happy either way. I am obviously in your 25% bracket. 25% of several thousand is a LOT of players, especially when you consider that the whole group represents only a small % of the whole APA. (The ones who make it to Vegas-the premeir APA competition)

I believe the many need a game (sport?) that has mass appeal is going to last. I think the the many would benefit more from agreeing to standardize the equipment as much as possible. Long term I think it would be better for the quality of the game of pool. It sounds like you are equating "the needs of the many" to "the ignorance of the many". Unless I read you wrong.

Anyway, thanks again for the feedback.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

The Aramith ball is supposed to be Aramith's best bar table cue ball. Instead of a magnetic core it has the metal distributed throughout the ball. It marks up easily and feels funny when playing with it. Aramith has know for several years that this ball does not work well. They don't however have another option at present to compete with Diamond's optical sensor which allows Diamond tables to use any normal cueball.

The APA did use Diamonds for a brief time which was wonderful. Of course a Diamond "partner" buying the competing league killed that deal. Although it shouldn't have as the APA should be about presenting the best playing experience for the people who do manage to get to Vegas.

The APA doesn't really care about what your playing experience is elsewhere. Some leagues play on the worst equipment imagineable. Others have pro-quality equipment. To be in the APA means to be prepared for all conditions.

In the Olympics this past few weeks one quote stands out, an American Olympic gold medal winner was asked if the pollution in Beijing would be a problem, he said it might be but as long as everyone had to deal with it then it was the same problem for all the runners, and under the same conditions he was confident that he would prevail.

That's how I feel about the APA. Whatever the equipment is - though aggravating - it's the same for everyone playing. And masters players should be able to adjust to the conditions far easier than amateur players.

Nice post John. Well put!

 

[KMRUNOUT]

If that is all that makes an APA player happy I will sell you a bundle of those patches for a small fee.

Ha ha...yeah, I think I have a large bucket somewhere full of patches. Hey...I didn't notice...did they have a 9 ball break and run patch for masters? I got a couple of those...

KMRUNOUT

 

[cardiac kid]

This year I attended both the BCAPL and ACS events in Vegas at the Riv. I look at the situation in reverse. The Diamond tables are ruining the game. They are too good. Just like the Sardo rack that gave us perfect racks everytime (except for the dimples in the cloth). I can't complain about the conditions too much. I cashed in all seven events I played in.

The ACS was shear panic. No matter how I tried to control the cue ball, it would rock as it came to rest. I lost a match on the hill when the cue ball j hooked me. How do you practice for that? We counted three different cue balls in use.

The tables for the ACS, Valley, Southern Nevada and APA events are supplied by Gary Bensen and High Mountain Productions. The cloths are changed each year before the first National event. Some of the tables haven't had new rails installed in way too many years. The tables that accept dollar bills are the newest. I must ask if anyone here wants to complain about how the event ran. Gary is the best at what he does. Even BCAPL hires him to run their event.

Lyn

 

[cardiac kid]

Ha ha...yeah, I think I have a large bucket somewhere full of patches. Hey...I didn't notice...did they have a 9 ball break and run patch for masters? I got a couple of those...

KMRUNOUT

I think we forget how excited we were to earn our first patch. I play to win. Most of my competitors play to have fun. Who is to say which of us is right?

Lyn