APA league etiquette...to hell in a handbasket???
- Thread starter Maniac
- Start date
I've seen this scenario happen WAY more than once!!!
Maniac
That's Unsportsmen like in my eyes , I couldn't let any of my team members do that .
I give every person I play the same respect no matter if they are I higher skill level or a lower skill level .
Very true! This is why I much prefer the BCA league I play in now. Everyone in the league either highly skilled, or experienced enough to understand basic etiquette.
As mentioned several times prior, the APA is an amateur league. I've had a lot of good experiences with teams I've played on, and I have also come across many teams like the one described at the beginning of this thread. Because of this I now only play league out of 'pool halls', as I know the majority of the people there will at least have some basic etiquette.
With the good you also get the bad, and as good as APA is for pool (I never would've started league play without it), there are a lot of negatives that are part of the package.
Like the French say, "Merde....".:grin:
Few generalizations I have 'learned' over the years playing and captaining APA teams;
Not everybody takes their game as seriously as YOU DO, and some would rather drink and socialize than play pool, or close to it.
APA pool players, by and large, are 'bar people', as in people who frequent pool halls, with or without APA pool.
APAers are not the classiest people I've meet, as was demonstrated at our city tournament; God bless them, but most looked like they crawled out from under a rock.
Add in alcohol, a hard days work (if they have jobs), and everybody is ready to blow off steam and seem to pride themselves on how crazy and over the top they can be on league night. Most are just trying to have some good natured fun. The only time I have a problem is when people rejoice openly at our competitors misfortunes. I normally speak up when this happens, as it may be fun to do, but is unquestionably disrespectful, and makes the entire team look bad.
Not everybody takes their game as seriously as YOU DO, and some would rather drink and socialize than play pool, or close to it.
APA pool players, by and large, are 'bar people', as in people who frequent pool halls, with or without APA pool.
APAers are not the classiest people I've meet, as was demonstrated at our city tournament; God bless them, but most looked like they crawled out from under a rock.
Add in alcohol, a hard days work (if they have jobs), and everybody is ready to blow off steam and seem to pride themselves on how crazy and over the top they can be on league night. Most are just trying to have some good natured fun. The only time I have a problem is when people rejoice openly at our competitors misfortunes. I normally speak up when this happens, as it may be fun to do, but is unquestionably disrespectful, and makes the entire team look bad.
This is true too; I love getting into the Qualifiers and City Cups and seeing the teams order their buckets of beers at 8:30am because they are the types who don't play unless they are drinking. I always get a kick out of that...
With all due respect, they don't belong there either. I bowled in leagues for years and never liked the high five after getting a strike or spare or making the game winning shot. We never hooted or hollered for anything other then a perfect game but so did the rest of the house. When I bowled in the A.B.T. sharking or misbehavior in any form wasn't allowed. You got fined.
I, after reading this thread am wondering if my partner and I doing a hand slap after a win should discontinue also? We try to do it on the sly but perhaps it also is being mildly disrespectful. Then again so is the sharking that goes on.
All of the stuff you are complaining about is correct, if Pool wants to grow, then a strick set of rules need to be put in place, and enforced.
Being 25 and starting in a pool hall, the apa scene does get alittle annoying. I especially hate the cheering and clapping when someone scratches on an 8. You all point out bad habits and what etiquette should be. A couple of questions though:
1) when did the 'stand at the table and chalk your tip after a miss' start. I hate that, for some reason that really gets under my skin. Not so much when I play, but when my wife is playing. Almost like guys are trying to intimidate her. I don't understand why that goes on in APA.
2) I have a question about sitting by the table:
I usually sit still or if i'm moving around, I do it far away from the table and away from players line of sight. Here's the question, when you are sitting still but your chair is only 6 feet away from the table. Is it proper to move when you are in your opponents line of sight, or just sit like a statue?
1) when did the 'stand at the table and chalk your tip after a miss' start. I hate that, for some reason that really gets under my skin. Not so much when I play, but when my wife is playing. Almost like guys are trying to intimidate her. I don't understand why that goes on in APA.
2) I have a question about sitting by the table:
I usually sit still or if i'm moving around, I do it far away from the table and away from players line of sight. Here's the question, when you are sitting still but your chair is only 6 feet away from the table. Is it proper to move when you are in your opponents line of sight, or just sit like a statue?
LOL, are we talking about APA here?
Again, at our city tournament, our teams were handed out a flier with a dress code that stipulated for men a collared shirt, clean blue jeans or slacks, and dress type shoes.
I am not kidding when I tell you they would have had to throw out the entire lot; the majority had cut off sleeves, tats showing, lewd comment t-shirts, dirty work boots, ripped jeans, and that was the women!
1) It's a bad habit some people pick up. It's happened to me countless times, and I've been guilty of it as well, when I look at the shot I just missed to try to think about what I did wrong. This is where having your own chalk on your person helps... People will keep doing it. It's not always an intimidation factor, just a bad habit, IMO.
2) It depends on if the player is sighted on his shot or not. My rule of thumb is: if the player hasn't sighted on his shot and you are in front of it, move, but if he's already sighted on his shot, stay as still as possible, because he's already down to shoot. It's standard etiquette to not stand or sit in the sightline of a player shooting at the table, and 6 feet is a short enough distance that any extraneous movement you make can be seen. However, if the player has already gotten down to shoot, it's too late, and any extraneous movement you make at that point is going to interrupt his flow, so I would sit as still as possible.
Back when I was an almost-daily pool player, in the late 60's and early 70's, there were two types of places to play pool: the dedicated "pool hall," and the "beer joint that had some pool tables."
The latter usually had some TVs going, a juke box, foosball, and a handful of coin-op tables with cigarette burns on the rails. The tables stayed busy, but weren't the focus of the place. Pool was something you did while hanging out drinking and talking with your buddies.
The former was usually what the OP described as a "true" pool hall: a quiet, respectful place with nothing but pool tables. No music, no booze, the sound of balls clicking, and an occasional "good shot" in a soft voice. Obviously, there aren't many, if any, of these around any more.
But it's not just cultural factors, it's also the economy. Costs of equipment, maintenance, property, staff, operation, etc. are so high that a "true" pool hall simply wouldn't bring in enough income to survive. Owners have to market that loud, "party" atmosphere just to stay alive, and a lot of that's probably reflected in the APA.
I miss it, too. I guess that's why I'm reproducing the quiet, dark, peaceful pool environment in my own pool room at home. For me, pool is a quiet, relaxed, peaceful game.
A few months ago I passed through a town and stopped to play at little at a Fast Eddie's. It was a madhouse. Don't get me wrong; it was a great place from another perspective. Packed full of people, loud music, girls hustling drinks and food, hooting and hollering at missed shots, etc. I HATE it when the waitress walks up and just stands there STARING at you while you make a shot, so she can ask if you want another drink.
Tables were about 4 feet apart, and the yahoo next to me kept bumping into me when I was in the middle of a shot. After about 30 minutes, I just left.
It was a good, clean, well-managed place, and like the beer joint described above, the pool was basically just something to do while eating, talking and drinking, and listening to rap on the juke box. In fact, the place had several clusters of non-players, giggling and just hanging out (and spending $$$ on food).
But not my cup of tea, not how I like to play pool. I've often wondered if there was SOME kind of business model that could include "serious" pool in the traditional style, in some way. Maybe have a walled-off area, something like that.
Kinda got long-winded there, sorry.
Ruark
The latter usually had some TVs going, a juke box, foosball, and a handful of coin-op tables with cigarette burns on the rails. The tables stayed busy, but weren't the focus of the place. Pool was something you did while hanging out drinking and talking with your buddies.
The former was usually what the OP described as a "true" pool hall: a quiet, respectful place with nothing but pool tables. No music, no booze, the sound of balls clicking, and an occasional "good shot" in a soft voice. Obviously, there aren't many, if any, of these around any more.
But it's not just cultural factors, it's also the economy. Costs of equipment, maintenance, property, staff, operation, etc. are so high that a "true" pool hall simply wouldn't bring in enough income to survive. Owners have to market that loud, "party" atmosphere just to stay alive, and a lot of that's probably reflected in the APA.
I miss it, too. I guess that's why I'm reproducing the quiet, dark, peaceful pool environment in my own pool room at home. For me, pool is a quiet, relaxed, peaceful game.
A few months ago I passed through a town and stopped to play at little at a Fast Eddie's. It was a madhouse. Don't get me wrong; it was a great place from another perspective. Packed full of people, loud music, girls hustling drinks and food, hooting and hollering at missed shots, etc. I HATE it when the waitress walks up and just stands there STARING at you while you make a shot, so she can ask if you want another drink.
Tables were about 4 feet apart, and the yahoo next to me kept bumping into me when I was in the middle of a shot. After about 30 minutes, I just left.
It was a good, clean, well-managed place, and like the beer joint described above, the pool was basically just something to do while eating, talking and drinking, and listening to rap on the juke box. In fact, the place had several clusters of non-players, giggling and just hanging out (and spending $$$ on food).
But not my cup of tea, not how I like to play pool. I've often wondered if there was SOME kind of business model that could include "serious" pool in the traditional style, in some way. Maybe have a walled-off area, something like that.
Kinda got long-winded there, sorry.
Ruark
We are comparing apples and oranges here. I learned to play in a real pool room...wooden floors, no juke box, no video games, just pool tables.
Fast forward to today. Pool rooms have added loud music, alcohol, televisions, live bands (or worse, Karaoke!) in an effort to attract more customers.
In the old rooms, there might be a dozen serious pool players, but that was all that was there. Pool rooms can't survive catering to serious pool players. They need the kids, the social players, the drinkers, and the league players.
Also, as someone else mentioned, the concept of team play didn't exist in my day. That alone creates a more social situation. Imagine 8 friends getting together in a bar once a week for a few hours, and only talking in hushed tones to each other. Ain't gonna happen!!! Team sports create an enviornment of excitement, and people will express that excitement. Even golf (the sport we always seem to compare with pool), has it. Granted the crowd is quiet when a golfer is shooting, but listen to the roar once the ball leaves the club face. "GET IN THE HOLE!" "YOU DA MAN"!
People claim they want to see pool grow. If we take the game back to the 50's, it would be relegated to the little smoke filled rooms again. Is that what we want? Or do we adapt, and learn to play in an environment that allows more people to enjoy the game?
Steve
Fast forward to today. Pool rooms have added loud music, alcohol, televisions, live bands (or worse, Karaoke!) in an effort to attract more customers.
In the old rooms, there might be a dozen serious pool players, but that was all that was there. Pool rooms can't survive catering to serious pool players. They need the kids, the social players, the drinkers, and the league players.
Also, as someone else mentioned, the concept of team play didn't exist in my day. That alone creates a more social situation. Imagine 8 friends getting together in a bar once a week for a few hours, and only talking in hushed tones to each other. Ain't gonna happen!!! Team sports create an enviornment of excitement, and people will express that excitement. Even golf (the sport we always seem to compare with pool), has it. Granted the crowd is quiet when a golfer is shooting, but listen to the roar once the ball leaves the club face. "GET IN THE HOLE!" "YOU DA MAN"!
People claim they want to see pool grow. If we take the game back to the 50's, it would be relegated to the little smoke filled rooms again. Is that what we want? Or do we adapt, and learn to play in an environment that allows more people to enjoy the game?
Steve
So it show that the Player did not give a, PGA would have not allowed this. BTW I am talking Golf, the other game played on GREEN. :wink:
I think it has more to do with caliber of player Manic. I still get that playing in a higher caliber league system in the North Dallas area. But when I play in a bar league, on a different day, where the mean caliber of player is much less, I see the same results you've described above.
In the high caliber league, no body likes winning when they don't earn it. Slopping in balls or a lucky safe after missing, usually results in someone apologizing for it.
Not so in the bar league. Those are again, as you described above.
So don't worry.. you're not old, you just know how to win graciously, and how to be a good sportsman when things don't go your way.
Cheers....
I think most know what they have seen from the beginning. Some are just never exposed to any other way.Back in the mid 80's when I first started playing it was at a bowling alley that had 8 tables in the back a loud jukebox and a bar.There was always a group of us that went together.It was always packed and you never talked you had to yell to be heard over the music and people.I thought it was the best.we played there for quite a few years but in the late 90's a pool hall opended closer to home for us so we decided to start playing there.when I first walked in it was very quiet,and my first thought was"BORING".we got a table and started to play.Being use to what we knew we started talking and heckling each other and asked the owner where the jukebox was.He told us that there was no music and asked if we would please quiet down.We tried to be as quiet as possible and shot for about 3 hours or so and left.3 of us worked second shift at the time so since it was so close we went back in thru the week to shoot in the afternoon before work.The owner was nice and even offered us help with our game and explained a few other games to us(9ball,1pocket things like that)since we always played 8 ball.All we talked about all week was how we couldnt wait to get to the bowling alley friday night so we could listen to some music while we shot.on friday when we got there and started playing we were all wondering "What we were we thinking".we had enjoyed the quiet and friendly atmosphere but just didnt realize it until it was gone.We lasted about 45 minutes and headed for the pool hall.I continuded to play there until it closed in mid summer of 2002.I had not played for a month or so when a friend asked me if I would shoot on a pool league with him.Of course I said yes since the place I normally play is closed.The games were heald at a local bar and being tru to my word I finished the season even though I hated the noise and having to yell.After that I looked around the area for about a month for a new place to play with no avail.That was it and I was done.About 3 weeks ago I got in my safe and pulled out my cue for the first time in years(since 2002)I went to a new pool hall that had opended in my area a year or so ago and it was OK.they have a bar and jukebox but its in a different room and not so loud I have to yell.I had forgoten how much I loved playing pool.They have a fall league starting soon and I think I may just join.Different strokes for different folksIf you dont mind the hooping and holloring then thats great. If you like it quiet then thats also great.But hopefully you can find a good medium.
For the most part that is true. I know some higher ranked players that still hoot and holler like idiots and talk trash.
As far as a little excitement or a high five or two, I can see it....it's a bar league, people do it to have fun, and many are just trying to have fun....it's a team event, and even in the Ryder Cup in golf, you see people get more excited.....professional pool events on TV have people clapping after every straight in shot, why should the APA be different (I do not agree with clapping after every shot :grin
On the other hand, clapping for a missed shot, talking loudly to distract your opponent, or other sharking techniques are just poor sportsmanship....that is annoying and should not be allowed IMHO....
On the other hand, clapping for a missed shot, talking loudly to distract your opponent, or other sharking techniques are just poor sportsmanship....that is annoying and should not be allowed IMHO....
This wasn't a league game but still....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgxDPinLLx8&feature=related
Oly is a great player but the crowd was pathetic IMO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgxDPinLLx8&feature=related
Oly is a great player but the crowd was pathetic IMO
Another poster hit on one of my pet peeves.
While I have no problem with the cheers, high 5s, etc, one thing bothers the crap out of me. Why do some venues have to turn the music up SO loud? One of the worst is The Green Room in Dundalk, MD where we play the Tri-Annuals and National Qualifiers. Sometimes, the music has been so loud and thumping that you can barely hear your coach or teammate, let alone get the attention of a referee. I don't mind music playing, but it needs to be lower than the volume of an aircraft at max-afterburner.
In one National Qualifier, we got to the Green Room fairly early and all chipped in to put $75 in the jukebox. We played all country music, Elvis, 60s-70s stuff. It was funny to see, but the folks at the bar actually turned the volume down...BTW, we won a trip to Vegas at that tourney.
Joe
While I have no problem with the cheers, high 5s, etc, one thing bothers the crap out of me. Why do some venues have to turn the music up SO loud? One of the worst is The Green Room in Dundalk, MD where we play the Tri-Annuals and National Qualifiers. Sometimes, the music has been so loud and thumping that you can barely hear your coach or teammate, let alone get the attention of a referee. I don't mind music playing, but it needs to be lower than the volume of an aircraft at max-afterburner.
In one National Qualifier, we got to the Green Room fairly early and all chipped in to put $75 in the jukebox. We played all country music, Elvis, 60s-70s stuff. It was funny to see, but the folks at the bar actually turned the volume down...BTW, we won a trip to Vegas at that tourney.
Joe