APA LEAGUE - Rules - Im Confused

Billiardsfan said:
From page 43 of the manuel:

32. EQUIPMENT
In general, any piece of equipment designed specifically for pocket billiards,
with the exception of laser devices and mechanical cues, is acceptable in APA
League play. Some specialty cues (see SPECIALTY CUES described in
definitions) may be limited in use. Special equipment, such as bridges and cue
extenders, are legal. You may change cues and/or cue shafts during a game
provided the cues and/or shafts you are switching to do not violate any rules of
use, and you remain within the Time Guidelines (outlined on page 7).
Jump Cues – A specialty cue designed for attempting jump shots (see JUMP
SHOTS described in definitions). They may not be used to perform jump
shots or massé shots (see MASSÉ SHOTS described in definitions) in
standard APA League and tournament play.
Break Cues – A specialty cue designed for breaking (see BREAK SHOTS
described in definitions). Sometimes combined with jump cues to form a
jump-break cue, these cues are allowed in APA play for breaking. They may
not be used to perform jump shots or massé shots in standard APA League
and tournament play.
Regular Shooting Cues – Any cue designed to shoot the majority of shots in
a game of pool. These cues may also be used to perform jump shots, massé
shots and break shots in all APA League and tournament play.
APA will rule upon any piece of equipment in question that is not covered by
this rule.
Click to expand...

This rule is not very clear to me. It does seem clear that you cannot use a specially designed break cue (or J/B cue), like the Predator BK or OB version etc,, for jumping. However, if (like me) you break with a "Regular Shooting Cue" upon which you have put a super hard tip (so that don't in fact use it for regular play), I think this rule would allow me to switch to it and jump.

The rule really should be clearer, IMO.

Gideon<---doesn't play APA/CPA
 
The APA has some quirky rules for sure.

There idea of a handicap system is a joke. There have been some monster road players that played in APA and were rated 7 in 9 ball. The problem with their ratings is when to mark a safety vs. missed shot. Most captains don't pay enough attention to this detail.
 
GideonF said:
This rule is not very clear to me. It does seem clear that you cannot use a specially designed break cue (or J/B cue), like the Predator BK or OB version etc,, for jumping. However, if (like me) you break with a "Regular Shooting Cue" upon which you have put a super hard tip (so that don't in fact use it for regular play), I think this rule would allow me to switch to it and jump.

The rule really should be clearer, IMO.

Gideon<---doesn't play APA/CPA
Click to expand...

It is pretty clear...at less it is to me.

You can jump with any playing cue that is not specifically made for jumping or breaking. Putting a hard tip on a regular playing cue to use to break with does not change the fact it is a regular playing cue.

Hope this clears it up for you.
 
tucson9ball said:
The APA has some quirky rules for sure.

There idea of a handicap system is a joke. There have been some monster road players that played in APA and were rated 7 in 9 ball. The problem with their ratings is when to mark a safety vs. missed shot. Most captains don't pay enough attention to this detail.
Click to expand...

I think the handicap system works pretty good.

The problem is ...as you state.....failure to mark safeties
 
tucson9ball said:
The APA has some quirky rules for sure.

There idea of a handicap system is a joke. There have been some monster road players that played in APA and were rated 7 in 9 ball. The problem with their ratings is when to mark a safety vs. missed shot. Most captains don't pay enough attention to this detail.
Click to expand...

Oh yea....got a question.. What kind of road monsters would lower themselves to play in the any pocket available league?

According to most on here spa is nothing but a bangers league
 
lorider said:
Oh yea....got a question.. What kind of road monsters would lower themselves to play in the any pocket available league?

According to most on here spa is nothing but a drunken bangers league
Click to expand...

You forgot the most important part of us DB'ers.
 
ctyhntr said:
Glad your local league operator allows this variance. I'm pretty sure any local league exceptions won't apply at APA Nationals.
Click to expand...

See, this is why it pays to have identical, or at least similar cues.
Switching to your breaker during your turn to do a jump shot is not allowed at the national level. After the break, if I need to I'll complete my turn with the cue I broke with unless it's a phenoelic (how do you spell that...) tip or a white diamond tip or something like that. My regular breaker has a Samsara break tip. As long as I chalk it up and don't try to do anything to crazy it's usually ok. If I have to jump to start a turn I'll be prepared to complete that turn with the cue I brought to the table.
In regular weekly play I will generally let my opponent get away with quite a bit, if they want to switch to a breaker to jump, or whatever I don't really care, it's usually a friendly game. However, at playoffs, LTC or the National Level I will stick to the rules pretty rigidly, that means you will too. At that level I don't think that's too much to ask
 
lorider said:
It is pretty clear...at less it is to me.



You can jump with any playing cue that is not specifically made for jumping or breaking. Putting a hard tip on a regular playing cue to use to break with does not change the fact it is a regular playing cue.



Hope this clears it up for you.
Click to expand...



That is how I read the rule, but it seems that the experience of others who play APA is that it is not permitted. That's why I think the rule should be clarified.

Gideon
 
APA 8-ball is geared towards beginners and intermediates. From my experience 2/3 of the players would be D or less. If you're a C+/B and not sandbagging, you'll likely end up as a terminal 7. SL7 is the highest ranking in APA 8-ball.

If you're in an area where this is no other league option except APA 8-ball, then you may not have much choice. One open level player told me back in his home state, APA was the only game in town. As a SL7 he didn't lose a single match in 2 years. Coming to NYC and playing in Team 9-ball where the handicap scale covers open/pros he hasn't been able to repeat the same winning streak.

lorider said:
Oh yea....got a question.. What kind of road monsters would lower themselves to play in the any pocket available league?

According to most on here spa is nothing but a bangers league
Click to expand...
 
Billiardsfan said:
From page 43 of the manuel:

32. EQUIPMENT
In general, any piece of equipment designed specifically for pocket billiards,
with the exception of laser devices and mechanical cues, is acceptable in APA
League play. Some specialty cues (see SPECIALTY CUES described in
definitions) may be limited in use. Special equipment, such as bridges and cue
extenders, are legal. You may change cues and/or cue shafts during a game
provided the cues and/or shafts you are switching to do not violate any rules of
use, and you remain within the Time Guidelines (outlined on page 7).
Jump Cues – A specialty cue designed for attempting jump shots (see JUMP
SHOTS described in definitions). They may not be used to perform jump
shots or massé shots (see MASSÉ SHOTS described in definitions) in
standard APA League and tournament play.
Break Cues – A specialty cue designed for breaking (see BREAK SHOTS
described in definitions). Sometimes combined with jump cues to form a
jump-break cue, these cues are allowed in APA play for breaking. They may
not be used to perform jump shots or massé shots in standard APA League
and tournament play.
Regular Shooting Cues – Any cue designed to shoot the majority of shots in
a game of pool. These cues may also be used to perform jump shots, massé
shots and break shots in all APA League and tournament play.
APA will rule upon any piece of equipment in question that is not covered by
this rule.
Click to expand...

I have brought this up to my LO, and he still allows us to jump with any full size cue, including jump/break cues....

Yes, I expect if I were to ever get to Vegas that wouldn't fly. I rarely do it anyway, its just nice to have the option, at least within our LO's territory. Including LTCs.
 
Ken, the best advice I can give you is the same as I give any of our higher level players when faced with playing a SL1 or SL2.....

Ball-in-hand is the absolute worst thing that can happen to you. Obvious, yes. But playing someone who only needs 14 or 19 points, it needs to be the HIGHEST priority. Your whole game plan should be built around this.

Break safer. Meaning line up square in the middle of the table, not from the side. Much less chance of scratching. If you don't make a ball, don't sweat it. They aren't going to run the table. They aren't going to run two balls, likely.

Don't take chances. Even reasonable chances. Get a safe hit, regardless of how it will play for shape.

Patience.....patience.....patience...... They aren't going to run balls. They might crap something in, and you can't help that. You don't have to run racks either. You can and should play safe. I know if feels funny, stitching a beginner. But in an actual match, against that spot, ya gotta do it. Leave'em long, especially on a 9-footer.

Just don't do anything that gives them ball-in-hand. Simple? Yeah........about that.
:p

Hopefully you get to play some higher level folks and get to really play the game, instead of the stuff above. I absolutely HATE it when someone throws off like that on our higher level players. It's no fun for either player. Yes, I realize that it becomes a strategy. It simply isn't a strategy I choose to employ.
 
justadub said:
Ken, the best advice I can give you is the same as I give any of our higher level players when faced with playing a SL1 or SL2.....

Ball-in-hand is the absolute worst thing that can happen to you. Obvious, yes. But playing someone who only needs 14 or 19 points, it needs to be the HIGHEST priority. Your whole game plan should be built around this.

Break safer. Meaning line up square in the middle of the table, not from the side. Much less chance of scratching. If you don't make a ball, don't sweat it. They aren't going to run the table. They aren't going to run two balls, likely.

Don't take chances. Even reasonable chances. Get a safe hit, regardless of how it will play for shape.

Patience.....patience.....patience...... They aren't going to run balls. They might crap something in, and you can't help that. You don't have to run racks either. You can and should play safe. I know if feels funny, stitching a beginner. But in an actual match, against that spot, ya gotta do it. Leave'em long, especially on a 9-footer.

Just don't do anything that gives them ball-in-hand. Simple? Yeah........about that.
:p

Hopefully you get to play some higher level folks and get to really play the game, instead of the stuff above. I absolutely HATE it when someone throws off like that on our higher level players. It's no fun for either player. Yes, I realize that it becomes a strategy. It simply isn't a strategy I choose to employ.
Click to expand...

My philosophy also dub. Except I preach it to my mid level players also when playing low level players.

Take last Thursday night for example. Last night of regular session and we were vying for a playoff spot.

After 3 matches we were up 40-20 and I thought we had I in the bag.

4 th match I threw a 4 and they counters with a 5 . Well their 5 had probably the bed game of his life and my 4 had his worst losing 19-1

Last match they threw a 3 and I countered with a 5. I told my player that his opponent was a darn good 3 and just play smart and play safe when he had the chance. Well my 5 decides he is efren Jr or something and loses the cue ball several times giving his opponent bih 4 times.

We won and after the match my guy says dang that was a tough win. I said you gave him 10 points off those bih and he only needed 2 to win the match. I reminded him giving bih is a killer to a good shooting lower level player.
 
GideonF said:
This rule is not very clear to me. It does seem clear that you cannot use a specially designed break cue (or J/B cue), like the Predator BK or OB version etc,, for jumping. However, if (like me) you break with a "Regular Shooting Cue" upon which you have put a super hard tip (so that don't in fact use it for regular play), I think this rule would allow me to switch to it and jump.

The rule really should be clearer, IMO.

Gideon<---doesn't play APA/CPA
Click to expand...

Face palm!

You CANNOT change sticks while playing for a particular shoot other than using a break cue for the purpose of breaking. Not a gray area in any way shape or form.

If you use a normal stick with a hard tip for all of your shots and not as a specialty cue and it aides you in jumping you are fine, but you can't change to a stick for the sole purpose of jumping as you have then switched to a specialty cue.

The "regular shooting stick" you are claiming to use as a break stick is clearly a break stick as you pointed out being that you put a hard tip on it for the sole purpose of breaking with it and do not use it as a normal shooting stick. Thus you are in violation of:
Regular Shooting Cues – Any cue designed to shoot the majority of shots in a game of pool.

So many people claim that APA rules are too vague or not specific enough. People's lack of intelligence/comprehension is clearly the problem and I am without a doubt sure it spills into every facet of their life and pool.
 
Last edited:
Skippy27 said:
Face palm!

You CANNOT change sticks while playing for a particular shoot other than using a break cue for the purpose of breaking. Not a gray area in any way shape or form.

If you use a normal stick with a hard tip for all of your shots and not as a specialty cue and it aides you in jumping you are fine, but you can't change to a stick for the sole purpose of jumping as you have then switched to a specialty cue.

The "regular shooting stick" you are claiming to use as a break stick is clearly a break stick as you pointed out being that you put a hard tip on it for the sole purpose of breaking with it and do not use it as a normal shooting stick. Thus you are in violation of:
Regular Shooting Cues – Any cue designed to shoot the majority of shots in a game of pool.

So many people claim that APA rules are too vague or not specific enough. People's lack of intelligence/comprehension is clearly the problem and I am without a doubt sure it spills into every facet of their life and pool.
Click to expand...

Skippy, I believe you are correct to "The Letter of the Law", however, it's likely that you and Gideon don't play in the same area and as you know local rules and by-laws can vary from place to place. So Skip, lemme ask you: You're in a regular weekly match and the person you're playing decides they need to jump and they change up sticks, do you cite the rule and make them shoot with their player, or do you care either way?
 
Skippy27 said:
Face palm!

You CANNOT change sticks while playing for a particular shoot other than using a break cue for the purpose of breaking. Not a gray area in any way shape or form.
Click to expand...

Okay, so what does this mean (from the rule): "You MAY change cues and/or cue shafts during a game provided the cues and/or shafts you are switching to do not violate any rules of use, and you remain within the Time Guidelines (outlined on page 7)."?

On the plain wording of the rule, you CAN change sticks while playing for a particular shot - it does not say you can only do this when switching from break cue to regular cue after the break.

Skippy27 said:
If you use a normal stick with a hard tip for all of your shots and not as a specialty cue and that aides you in jumping you are fine, but you can't change to a stick for the sole purpose of jumping as you have then switched to a specialty cue.

The "regular shooting stick" you are claiming to use as a break stick is clearly a break stick as you pointed out that you put a hard tip on it for the sole purpose of breaking with it and do not use it as a normal shooting stick.
Click to expand...

Well, the definition of a break cue is one is "a specialty cue designed for breaking", whereas a regular shooting cue is "any cue designed to shoot the majority of shots". Another poster has said he thinks it is very clear that a normal cue with a hard tip is NOT a specialty cue designed for breaking. You say it is very clear that it is now "specialty" breaking cue.

This is precisely why I said the definition was unclear. I would have been easy to write the rule to say that if you want to jump you must use the cue you are playing with (and cannot switch cues), but that's not the rule that was quoted.

By the way, in my example, I think it is a cue designed for regular play that has been modified to use as a break cue. But the definitions don't tell you what happens in that circumstances. And they certainly don't tell you what happens if I just happen to use a house cue to break and want to use that to jump (which would be preferable than my LD shooting cue), because it is very hard to call an off the wall house cue a specialty breaking cue designed for breaking.

In my view, the most important aspect of writing rules is to make them clear and not open to reasonable misunderstanding or debate. I think the rule is unclear.

Gideon
 
EVERY POOL LEAGUE PLAYER FORTUNATE ENOUGH NOT TO BE IN THE APA

giphy.gif
 
justadub said:
Ken, the best advice I can give you is the same as I give any of our higher level players when faced with playing a SL1 or SL2.....

Ball-in-hand is the absolute worst thing that can happen to you. Obvious, yes. But playing someone who only needs 14 or 19 points, it needs to be the HIGHEST priority. Your whole game plan should be built around this.

Break safer. Meaning line up square in the middle of the table, not from the side. Much less chance of scratching. If you don't make a ball, don't sweat it. They aren't going to run the table. They aren't going to run two balls, likely.

Don't take chances. Even reasonable chances. Get a safe hit, regardless of how it will play for shape.

Patience.....patience.....patience...... They aren't going to run balls. They might crap something in, and you can't help that. You don't have to run racks either. You can and should play safe. I know if feels funny, stitching a beginner. But in an actual match, against that spot, ya gotta do it. Leave'em long, especially on a 9-footer.

Just don't do anything that gives them ball-in-hand. Simple? Yeah........about that.
:p

Hopefully you get to play some higher level folks and get to really play the game, instead of the stuff above. I absolutely HATE it when someone throws off like that on our higher level players. It's no fun for either player. Yes, I realize that it becomes a strategy. It simply isn't a strategy I choose to employ.
Click to expand...

I will have to work on my safe break. I made 2-3 balls on my breaks but I think I scratched on at least one (got kicked in by another ball) or was hooked after the break. With only 6-8 balls left on table and ball in hand it is a lot easier to make several balls.

Ken
 
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