APA LEAGUE - Rules - Im Confused
- Thread starter Ken_4fun
- Start date
Oh no, no, no......
Breaking safe is prohibited by The APA:
Breaking safe or soft is not allowed. The League Operator may make judgments and issue penalties to teams and players who are not breaking hard. Breaking just hard enough to comply with this rule is not a guarantee against penalties. Remember, break as
hard as you can with control
yep, they've pretty much thought of everything
APA Rules, the only two words that comprise of 8 letter that should be a single 4 letter word.
The issue with that is when those APA players show up in a real pool room with real rules, we have to re-train them all.
But you are right about that, same as playing on bad equipment, it evens out the skill levels since a bad player has no idea where the balls are going anyway or how they should react so every shot is a surprise in the first place, while a good player will go nuts when the cueball rolls 4 inches off course to the rail like it was vacuumed in.
When I played in a traveling league that played in bars (TAP), I don't think I ever won a match against a worse player on a bad table, but have won against equal players on that same equipment, and always beat the worse players on good tables.
You guys are killing me....
.I was thinking of trying to hit the head ball and and trying to leave the cueball BEHIND the rack.....
Guess I need to rethink.
Ken
You guys are killing me....
I was thinking of trying to hit the head ball and and trying to leave the cueball BEHIND the rack.....
Guess I need to rethink.
Ken
"Ve have vevys of making you talk too......"
I suppose you could always move to Santa Barbara and join the SB Pool League,
I understand that one is absolute perfection, pool heaven, a total paradise.
I don't know if they have patches but if they do you probably don't have to pay for them.
Thee are never any disagreements, no one ever loses, every game is a break and run for both players, ....... and they dance
You guys are killing me....
I was thinking of trying to hit the head ball and and trying to leave the cueball BEHIND the rack.....
Guess I need to rethink.
Ken
Pretty sure you're having fun with this, at least I hope you are.....
Break'em hard, but from the middle so you don't scratch. You're good enough, you'll make something, and stay at the table. Yes, it's easier if you can get the two-to-three balls you usually get on your regular break, but it won't be easier if that cueball gets away from you and into the pocket, giving that player who only needs 14 points a free one
As someone else mentioned, this league is certainly geared towards the beginner, so you better players need to find a different way to challenge yourself, outrunning the spot. I admire seeing it done. (And I still hate seeing that kind of matchup.....I far prefer to see my better players playing their better players. It's a better match for each of them, and better for the rest of us to watch and learn from.)
I'm always having fun when I am playing pool. At home, I have an old Gold Crown III 9 foot that I play the ghost, and the ghost absolutely kicks my ass. But I also enjoy doing a variety of drills.
I wish everyone the best of rolls,
Ken
By-laws can say whatever they want provided they are approved by the APA office and are published. Ask any LO for a copy of their bylaws if they are not posted in your area section of the poolplayers.com site. Regardless, those bylaws will not be used in higher level tournaments so it is pointless to have any that trump the way to play a match and what equipment can/can't be used. Which is why they typically don't and cover much more basic and general stuff concerning the league night and local level tournaments.
However, I would tell the person they can't change sticks for a specialty shot as that is exactly why the rule is in place. It would not matter to me if the stick is the exact same stick (tip, shaft and butt) but 4 oz lighter than their shooting stick (lighter is better for jumping). The fact that they are changing sticks, which is allowed, for the sole purpose of performing a specialty shoot is the problem.
There are 3 common specialty shoots that can be aided by a specially designed stick in pool: Break, Jump and Masse. Changing to any stick, regardless of type, to perform a specialty shot is not allowed except in the case of the break. Changing to a cue for one of those shots just made that cue a specialty cue as it was used for the sole purpose of performing a specialty shot. That is the spirit of the rule and can be easily interpreted that way based on how it is worded.
Dude, you're a hard case. I'd love to hang out with you sometime and talk about anything but the rules. You're pretty rigid, and that can be a good thing, it can also be a bad thing. I'm not trying to be disrespectful or anything like that, but tell me, if you're playing a lower level player and they take a time out, do you immediately look at your watch and begin to count? Like I said - please don't take that the wrong way, I'm not trying to start anything, I know you pride yourself on your rule knowledge, it's impressive. What is your current S/L? How long have you played in The APA?
And you personally, how would you determine "the spirit" of the rule?
Oh, coming to Las Vegas this August?
That would make sense, based on the wording of the rule, but there's more to the history of the rule than that. In a nutshell, APA was hearing from locations about lower-skilled players buying jump cues but not knowing how to properly execute the shot, and damaging the tables in the location. Rather than outlaw the jump shot and create many arguments every time the cue ball hopped on the playing surface (was it accidental or intentional?), they decided to just outlaw the jump shot with the jump cue.
I think that if there were an easy way to describe the stroke used to shoot a jump shot with a jump cue, that's what would be illegal. But elevating the butt end of the cue also applies when you are shooting over a ball and sometimes when the cue ball is stuck on a rail, so it's really hard to describe just the jump shot stroke. The easy out is just to say you can't use a jump cue to shoot a jump shot. My preference in the wording would be "You may not shoot a jump shot with a cue designed or modified to facilitate jumping."
You would think that the APA would come up with a way (maybe a video) to teach people how to properly jump with a jump cue rather than ban it. I'm sure the silly pocket marker rule has a similar history. "Too many arguments over the called pocket for the 8-ball, so we will invent a silly rule that no one else in the world uses". The solution to that problem should have been calling the ball and pocket for every shot. You never see a dispute over which pocket was called in a BCAPL league.
I'm not a huge fan of handicap league play and being an APA 8/7, especially for the reasons you've voiced regarding the rules for push. However, I was practicing my break for this reason and realized so long as I make sure the first three balls are frozen in the rack front to back, I could soft break with a really high percentage of making a ball, controlling the cue and controlling the 1-ball.
You break into a slow sliding draw shot from the line of inside the corner pocket to hitting square on the 1-ball (20%). The cue ball should stick like a stop shot or draw back 6-10" and is rarely getting kicked around.
The last 9-ball match played was against a 5 and he couldn't understand how he was smashing the hell out of the rack with balls flying everywhere but never made one. I would step up, barely hit the ball and have perfect tables to run out.
Final score: 65-17
I used to "cream puff" the break as well, after feeling the same frustration as Ken. My opponent's team captain went to the league operator, and complained that I wasn't breaking within the rules. The rules state that the player must break as hard as he can while maintaining control. I had to show him how I was breaking. The LO wanted me to break harder. I said the rules say nothing about which ball I had to control - I told them I was trying to control the position of the 1 ball. After a lengthy debate, I was told that I could keep breaking soft. A week later I was told by the LO that what I was doing could be considered as unsportsmanlike conduct, and that if I was that "serious" about pool, that I should consider leaving the CPA (Canadian version of the APA). I went to TAP the next session. They allow jump cues. And break cues. And there's none of this crap about "specialty" anything. Oh yeah....and they allow a push out.
I'm not hitting as softly as you would with a racking template but I'm by no means at 100% which has been recorded by both radar and the break speed app as 28mph+. My 20-25% is still probably around 15mph which seems to give me an abundance of control over both the cue ball and the 1-ball. There are plenty of women breaking that speed every week and if I'm not allowed to mimic their speed, I may as well quit playing APA.
No offense taken. No, I am not one that watches the clock unless they get ridiculous. I am even one that if a lower level player accidentally touches the cue ball, I would ignore it. I would also not call a lower level player on a double hit. They are there trying and learning and I am fine with not punishing them for it. However, if a higher level person comes to the table they will not get the same kindness.
I am a 6, been playing since the spring of 2012 (wow, didnt realize it has been that long). Vegas in August is up in the air, probably not as I tend to travel for work a lot during the later summer months and I just returned from there on Monday.
I would determine the spirit based on what they are saying and if you have to try to find loopholes or creative ways to get around what is plainly written. They are telling you that you can't use a specialty stick for specialty shoots for anything other than breaking. The fact that you have to try to read between the lines and/or come up with creative methods to get around what is plainly written shows we are going beyond what they intended. They said no specialty sticks but what if..... I take a normal stick, hollow it out and put a hard tip on it? What if...... I just take the shaft of a normal playing stick and use that as a jumper? What if I, What if, what if, what if.... If they intended for you to be able to swap sticks for a jump shot, but not use a specifically made jump stick, they would have mentioned it just as they did for the break shot. However, they did not.
So now lets try to understand the rule that allows for you swap playing sticks at all. I would venture to guess the spirit of this rule is to allow you to swap if there is something about your stick you are not liking or something happened to it. You dropped it, broke the tip off. You weren't paying attention and wedge it between 2 tables snapping it in half. You hit the light with it and put a big nick in it that bothers you when you stroke. You just had a new tip put on it but it is too hard for your liking.
To whom ever said something about them not wanting people to jump and ruin tables thus they eliminated it. More important than any APA rule, pool table owners dictate if you can or can't jump or do masse shots on their tables. It does not matter what the APA says or allows. If the owners of the tables say no, then you wont be doing it PERIOD. I play in another league that allows jumping with jump sticks, but most of the time you can't do it because the place you are playing at has rules against it to protect their table. I personally don't jump as I find it less challenging than trying to do a kick shot and I am yet to find a place that has banned kicking so I never have to worry about being able to do it or not. Beside why take the easy road of jumping before you master the kick?
Before implementing the rule, APA consulted with multiple pro players and asked how long it would take to teach APA 2's and 3's how to use a jump cue. The answer was "3's, five minutes, 2's, impossible." A 2 can't execute a normal stroke, and you think they can be taught to jump a ball with a video?
The pocket marker rule DOES have it's roots in avoidance of arguments. That doesn't make it silly, though. I played in the APA way back before the pocket marker rule was implemented, and there were plenty of arguments about whether the pocket was called or which pocket was actually called. Your solution to that problem is to make them call every ball and pocket instead of just the 8. Yeah, that's not silly at all.
EVERY POOL LEAGUE PLAYER FORTUNATE ENOUGH NOT TO BE IN THE APA
That's how I dance and feel about the APA.
You break like King Kong, then. I watched a match between Larry Nevel and Shawn Putnam a few years back. Both guys break HARD. And they were on the gun at 25-26. 28+ is Bustamante and Dechaine speed.
Let's clarify this was initially recorded on a bar box for a break competition Jacoby had sponsored. One of my breaks the cue ball flew about 6' straight up in the air came down and landed right in the middle of the table. The next morning when we came down to the venue they were replacing the slate that had cracked in half. Plenty of witnesses for this particular incident.
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