APA policies in your area...help me understand

K

KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello folks,

I've been a player in the APA for about 16 years in the Massachusetts area. For the most part our league has been run pretty well. I read lots of threads on here bashing the APA, but I must say that overall it has been a positive experience for me. Lately some things have come up that involved me talking to the national office. Based on how unpleasant they were with me, and degree to which the person I spoke to got upset at simple questions asked very politely, I am now curious how it is for others or in other areas.

I am specifically inquiring about equipment. In my area, we have a bylaw that says that the home team can decide what cue ball to use. At the start of each individual match, the home player can decide. Once the decision is made, the match is played out with that cue ball. Then the next home player to play can decide. For example, if you go to a bar and bring a regulation cue ball and offer it to use, and the other team agrees, you could reach say the 3rd match of the night and have the home player decide he would rather use the house ball. That is his right, and he can. Then when the 4th match starts, it is up to the home player whether to use the regulation ball or the house ball, etc. That is how the bylaw works in our area.

How does it work in yours? I just got off the phone with a person whose name I won't mention in the APA office. She seemed to get very upset and rude with me when I asked her any questions she didn't feel like answering. This all started because I wanted to use the magic rack for 9 ball. Apparently the APA has deemed the magic rack as "not a legal device". They don't actually have a list of devices that are legal or illegal, so they apparently only deal with things on a case by case basis. She said that for both racks and cueballs, whatever the host *location* (not team) provides, that will be the default device used. She said that if you are playing at home and are used to using a regulation cue ball, but the bar table you play on normally has an oversized ball, that if the other team feels like it they can demand to use the oversized ball and you must comply!! Is it me, or is this just ridiculous? Apparently the APA doesn't even support the home teams decision to use the equipment they want! I asked what if I want to use the Delta 13 rack, or what if the home location decided to provide the magic rack. I was told that I was arguing with her, and that she wouldn't answer "what if" questions. Apparently the APA isn't interested in heading off issue before they happen; they would rather deal with unhappy people after the fact?

Anyway, could you guys and girls tell me how the issue of equipment is handled in your area in the APA? I'd be curious to hear some feedback.

Thanks for listening,

KMRUNOUT
 
When I played in APA with Bill Yard, the policy was to use the house equipment unless both teams agreed to use outside equipment.
 
KMRUNOUT said:
Hello folks,

I've been a player in the APA for about 16 years in the Massachusetts area. For the most part our league has been run pretty well. I read lots of threads on here bashing the APA, but I must say that overall it has been a positive experience for me. Lately some things have come up that involved me talking to the national office. Based on how unpleasant they were with me, and degree to which the person I spoke to got upset at simple questions asked very politely, I am now curious how it is for others or in other areas.

I am specifically inquiring about equipment. In my area, we have a bylaw that says that the home team can decide what cue ball to use. At the start of each individual match, the home player can decide. Once the decision is made, the match is played out with that cue ball. Then the next home player to play can decide. For example, if you go to a bar and bring a regulation cue ball and offer it to use, and the other team agrees, you could reach say the 3rd match of the night and have the home player decide he would rather use the house ball. That is his right, and he can. Then when the 4th match starts, it is up to the home player whether to use the regulation ball or the house ball, etc. That is how the bylaw works in our area.

How does it work in yours? I just got off the phone with a person whose name I won't mention in the APA office. She seemed to get very upset and rude with me when I asked her any questions she didn't feel like answering. This all started because I wanted to use the magic rack for 9 ball. Apparently the APA has deemed the magic rack as "not a legal device". They don't actually have a list of devices that are legal or illegal, so they apparently only deal with things on a case by case basis. She said that for both racks and cueballs, whatever the host *location* (not team) provides, that will be the default device used. She said that if you are playing at home and are used to using a regulation cue ball, but the bar table you play on normally has an oversized ball, that if the other team feels like it they can demand to use the oversized ball and you must comply!! Is it me, or is this just ridiculous? Apparently the APA doesn't even support the home teams decision to use the equipment they want! I asked what if I want to use the Delta 13 rack, or what if the home location decided to provide the magic rack. I was told that I was arguing with her, and that she wouldn't answer "what if" questions. Apparently the APA isn't interested in heading off issue before they happen; they would rather deal with unhappy people after the fact?

Anyway, could you guys and girls tell me how the issue of equipment is handled in your area in the APA? I'd be curious to hear some feedback.

Thanks for listening,

KMRUNOUT
Click to expand...

In New York City, the equipment cannot change once the night has begun. That is to say, the cueball used in the first match should be the same cueball used in the last.

To be honest, I think it's unfair for a team to not use the house cueball. It's the one ball on the table that can dramatcially influence the game and there's no way for the visiting team to get any time to adjust. The sole determinant in any pool game should be the quality of play and not sideline antics like switching cueballs.

As for racks, I can't say much about the magic rack since I've never used it (although I've seen it used quite a bit). As effective as it may be, I don't think it will ever become a practical tool for competitive play although I could be wrong.


Jude
 
When I played APA, it sucked and I wanted to kill myself.......ok, maybe I didn't want to die, but the petty rule disputes wore me out :D

Yes, you are appropriately frustrated....
 
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First, ignore NewStroke, it's his job to bash APA whenever he can :)

The first issue is, you called the national office about a local bylaw. The National office has no control or say over local bylaws. So, the answer she gave you is the answer that is the "national" rules. If you were playing in Vegas, you wouldn't be able to use your own cue ball.

I've had to call the National office once, and I had a great experience with it. I was in Vegas for both Singles and Team Nationals last year and had nothing but a good experience with all the APA National staff who were running things there.

Brian
 
in our area if both captains agree at the start of the match to use different ball is allowed. however once begun we cannot switch back and forth which i think would be unfair.

Mike
 
btoneill said:
First, ignore NewStroke, it's his job to bash APA whenever he can :)

The first issue is, you called the national office about a local bylaw. The National office has no control or say over local bylaws. So, the answer she gave you is the answer that is the "national" rules. If you were playing in Vegas, you wouldn't be able to use your own cue ball.

I've had to call the National office once, and I had a great experience with it. I was in Vegas for both Singles and Team Nationals last year and had nothing but a good experience with all the APA National staff who were running things there.

Brian
Click to expand...

You know, I too had to call the national office before, and it was a very pleasant experience. I was quite shocked that this particular woman was getting very upset and defensive at me asking simple clarifying questions...she ended up hanging up on me! Maybe she was just having a bad day. She seemed to approach the situation as if something was going on before...she started right out in a negative tone, and I had started right out super friendly and thanking her for getting back to me so quickly.

I guess it might remain a mystery.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
In New York City, the equipment cannot change once the night has begun. That is to say, the cueball used in the first match should be the same cueball used in the last.

To be honest, I think it's unfair for a team to not use the house cueball. It's the one ball on the table that can dramatcially influence the game and there's no way for the visiting team to get any time to adjust. The sole determinant in any pool game should be the quality of play and not sideline antics like switching cueballs.

As for racks, I can't say much about the magic rack since I've never used it (although I've seen it used quite a bit). As effective as it may be, I don't think it will ever become a practical tool for competitive play although I could be wrong.


Jude
Click to expand...


Jude,

I think the way you guys do it is the right way. I think both captains should agree at the beginning of the night, and whatever they decide is the ball you use throughout. That way there is no funny business about changing balls depending on what player is up or anything stupid like that.

Thanks for the info,

KMRUNOUT
 
I'm a bit confused. You know what the by-law states, but you call the national office to ask about it? No offense, but that doesn't make much sense. The last thing the national office wants to deal with is somebody calling up and questioning a local by-law. It sounds like the team you played is just a bunch of jerkoffs if that's the kind of crap that they pull. Either that, or somebody doesn't know a straight-in shot from slop and thinks that a crappy cue ball gives them some kind of dumb advantage.

Our area is pretty well taken care of. The table's equipment is the basic standard, but we can use the good CBs if both teams agree (and all do). Every once in a while some jackass will come along and say we have to use the table ball, but that usually doesn't last long when they start noticing it doesn't do what they want. In our area, if you aren't packing a CB, you probably have a new team.
 
KMRUNOUT said:
You know, I too had to call the national office before, and it was a very pleasant experience. I was quite shocked that this particular woman was getting very upset and defensive at me asking simple clarifying questions...she ended up hanging up on me! Maybe she was just having a bad day. She seemed to approach the situation as if something was going on before...she started right out in a negative tone, and I had started right out super friendly and thanking her for getting back to me so quickly.

I guess it might remain a mystery.
Click to expand...

From my understanding, the vast majority of calls the APA National office gets is people yelling and upset about their handicap/etc. Very seldom do they get calls that are people who are nice and polite. I'm betting the person had probably had a bad day and/or just got off the phone with a jackass...
 
Banks said:
I'm a bit confused. You know what the by-law states, but you call the national office to ask about it? No offense, but that doesn't make much sense. The last thing the national office wants to deal with is somebody calling up and questioning a local by-law. It sounds like the team you played is just a bunch of jerkoffs if that's the kind of crap that they pull. Either that, or somebody doesn't know a straight-in shot from slop and thinks that a crappy cue ball gives them some kind of dumb advantage.

Our area is pretty well taken care of. The table's equipment is the basic standard, but we can use the good CBs if both teams agree (and all do). Every once in a while some jackass will come along and say we have to use the table ball, but that usually doesn't last long when they start noticing it doesn't do what they want. In our area, if you aren't packing a CB, you probably have a new team.
Click to expand...

I think there's nothing wrong with contacting the national office about a local law. I mean, what if the local law is so ridiculous, it must be wrong? The National Office might not know anything about it without these complaints and once the complaint is made, they can steer the LO back on the right path.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
I think there's nothing wrong with contacting the national office about a local law. I mean, what if the local law is so ridiculous, it must be wrong? The National Office might not know anything about it without these complaints and once the complaint is made, they can steer the LO back on the right path.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that when you purchase the local franchise, you basically have full reign over whatever you want for rules... I've seen some CRAZY ones! For example, my current APA league lets you play two "ghost" players per session. A ghost player is someone who already played that night who will be playing in place of someone who isn't there. You tell the other team you want to play a ghost player, and they pick who they want to play from your team that is present and then pick who they are going to play against them.... Crazy crazy rule!
 
btoneill said:
EVERY league has petty rule disputes...
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree...

Standard APA - rule dispute almost every match
APA Masters - rule dispute once a season, but very rare...
BCA - I can remember 1 rule dispute, but I'm sure there are a couple more....and that is over 2 years....

Mark the pocket
Approved pocket markers
Approved cue balls
Number of timeouts
Length of timeouts
People actually yelling when you hit the ball to shark you
Extreme sandbagging
Scorekeeping
Safeties
and the list goes on :D

I actually enjoyed APA Masters, lot of fun, no issues.....for some reason, people just go rule crazy and actually try to find a crazy rule to win in Standard APA....it was really wierd....played a buddy of mine from Masters, we both agreed we didn't have to mark the pocket.....after I made the first 8, his teammate tried to argue with him for like 5 minutes that I should have lost the game, regardless of our agreement.....just didn't fit the spirit of pool for me.....but to each their own.....I still think with some improvements, it's a great concept...
 
I think our rule is you play with the equipment used and agreed upon from the first match on through the end. No changing unless something unforeseen happens like someone gets mad and throws the cue ball in the ocean or something. Anyway, you get the point. Changing cue balls in the middle of the matches is just a stupid and unfair idea in favor of the home team IMHO. Even if that rule existed in our local league I wouldn't do it and would tell my team not to do it either.
 
Please forgive whomever you were dealing with in Lake St.Louis . They were probably just having a really bad day . I've had to deal with member services frequently , and Betty and her team there have always been a great help to me .

The League Operators do have great leeway in their bylaws , HOWEVER , the bylaws may NOT contradict national rules , except in rare cases .
All bylaws ARE subject to scrutiny and approval by the national office .

Our local league operator , for instance , has repeatedly written bylaws to suit particular situations and benefit particular teams . For example , she once wrote a bylaw which effectively eliminated the 23-rule , which is the backbone of standard APA play . A quick fax of the bylaw to Lake St. Louis quickly eliminated that bylaw !
There was also a rule dispute once involving teams that were involved in our local playoffs . The League Operator convened a Board of Governors meeting to make a decision .Fortunately , one team captain was smart enough to inquire in writing to the national office . They sent a reply clarifying the rule , and settling the dispute . At the beginning of the next session , our League Operator included a bylaw which REVERSED Lake St. Louis' position on the issue . Back to the fax machine . . . . and another bylaw bites the dust !
I've been involved in the cueball dispute before , and I've even been threatened with suspension from the league for bringing my own set of Aramith Super Pros for use on the Gandy Big G we were competing on (I was captain of the home team , and I'm the one that arranged for the location to HAVE the Gandy - but I didn't want to leave the Super Pros there all the time , so it had cheap house balls on it on non-league nights for good reason ~ the patrons were CONSTANTLY stealing the red-circle cue balls from this joint . . . ).
Thought it odd that our LO could threaten me with suspension for bringing my own balls , while the APAs national magazine is advertising special cases to carry your own balls - what a conundrum . . . . :shrug:

But most of the problems stem from our LO ~ and most of our solutions have come from the national office . They've always been really helpful to me ! Sorry about your bad experience !

 
In our area the BB CB is usually replaced with a ball that is not a mud ball. The away team has the table 30 minutes before the match starts. They get a chance to practice with the playing conditions.

It would be unsportsmanlike to change something during a match.

The issue with the main office happens everywhere and every business. There are a few that think they are so high and mighty that they are working there. Usually is someone in a peon job that likes to feel important by being a a$$hole and treating everyone on the outside like $hit.
 
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