APA Rankings

[Skess]

Wow! That's awesome!

Congratulations on such an awesome achievement! What year was it?

Goes to show how honesty and integrity breeds success. That's what makes it all work out so well.

Thanks! It was 2001.

We had one of those weeks. The best part was that all 8 players on my team won at least 1 match in Vegas. It was great to be able to get everyone involved and have them win. That week still ranks as the greatest time I've had playing pool.

 

[hobokenapa]

Think what you will but if you're going to put 'winning a championship' as the ultimate goal, I'll have to beg to differ. Watching a former teammate on television is far better.

Jude, I agree with you. That is why I'm still in the APA. I'm frustrated at the system but turning a weak 3 into a 5 has been very rewarding. Similary watching them go a long way in HLT events, and especially last summer when players that had never even won a match in Tri-Cups were going 3-0 and 3-1 in the Gold Cup to get us within one ball of Vegas.

On a similar note, does the Amsterdam Thurs 9-ball have any handicap restrictions? Or can you field an entire team of Open players?

 

[FLICKit]

I'm a captain and a Divisional Rep. I've been in the APA for about two years and am an SL7 (8-ball).

In my experience, the main problem with the APA system, and the number one reason why people will try and sandbag is the 23-rule. The figure is not only too low, but it discourages improvement throughout the year (three seasons). At the beginning of Summer (the beginning of the APA year), my team was 7,4,4,4,3,3,3,2. I chose players that are keen to learn, and I am more happy to give time helping them improve. At the end of the Spring session, the same eight players were 7,5,5,5,5,4,4,3. All the hard work was worthless since we could hardly even field a team, and I could hardly ever play. We lost five of our last six matches and missed out on the Gold Cup. The problem I found was that making people better HURT our chances. It's almost like if I had taught the players nothing, we would have been rewarded. Anyone read Atlas Shrugged? That is the reason why I was thinking of giving it up, but I've made so many friends and I have such a great time playing and teaching that I decided not to. I even wrote to the APA saying that the 23-rule should be based on handicaps at the BEGINNING of the yearly cycle for players with 20 matches or more but I heard nothing back from them.

As for handicaps. Yes, it is based on your best 10 of 20. If you are 50% then that it is obviously based on ten wins. When a player goes to 9-11 in their last 20 that is when handicaps are much more likely to drop as a 'loss' is factored in. The inning score for a loss is much higher and this skews the figures. Go to 8-12 or 7-13 and you're almost certain to go down. If you want to know exactly how it works, there are plenty of posts that explain it. You can search for it on Google, it's not difficult to find.

I hear ya, and understand where you're coming from. I have often thought that the APA system could benefit by using a 24-rule. A 25-rule would be too high, and wouldn't work. Having the number below 25 is a big reason why the APA is so successful and is thus bigger than all other national leagues combined. It welcomes not only the advanced players, but also introduces many new players into the league, which promotes growth of APA, and the pool world as a whole. Introducing so many new players to the world of pool, will be a big reason why pool will continue to grow and flourish in the future.

Some might automatically respond that 24 would be too high. But, if you'd really take the time to analyze fully all the impacts that it would have, I strongly believe that 24 would work and work better.

It's been at the 23-rule for years, and I understand that has produced incredible success for APA over the years. That's why APA is the biggest. As a result, I know there'd be a good deal of resistance to changing what's already working so well.

With the 24-rule, you'd be able to compete with your team with 7,5,5,4,3. Other players/teams wouldn't feel quite so constrained by the handicap level. Yet, it'd still be low enough to maintain the strong and balanced competition amongst the teams. It's nice when so many teams have a truely legitimate chance for success. Good parity has breeded such great success!

 

[CantEverWin]

Think both ways

I hear ya, and understand where you're coming from. I have often thought that the APA system could benefit by using a 24-rule. A 25-rule would be too high, and wouldn't work. Having the number below 25 is a big reason why the APA is so successful and is thus bigger than all other national leagues combined. It welcomes not only the advanced players, but also introduces many new players into the league, which promotes growth of APA, and the pool world as a whole. Introducing so many new players to the world of pool, will be a big reason why pool will continue to grow and flourish in the future.

Some might automatically respond that 24 would be too high. But, if you'd really take the time to analyze fully all the impacts that it would have, I strongly believe that 24 would work and work better.

It's been at the 23-rule for years, and I understand that has produced incredible success for APA over the years. That's why APA is the biggest. As a result, I know there'd be a good deal of resistance to changing what's already working so well.

With the 24-rule, you'd be able to compete with your team with 7,5,5,4,3. Other players/teams wouldn't feel quite so constrained by the handicap level. Yet, it'd still be low enough to maintain the strong and balanced competition amongst the teams. It's nice when so many teams have a truely legitimate chance for success. Good parity has breeded such great success!

It seems that the honest APA players are on this site. The sandbaggers must be in their dungeons sipping blood and conceiving of ways douse everyone's pool playing spirits.
Has anyone noticed that after you play a match and kill another player the discussion of you being under rated doesn't cross your mind? Or even that you should be complaining that your opponent may be over rated? Next time you win big you should tell your area director that your opponent should mover down so that next time you play you guys can be even... We'll, see how many of you jump to that.
No one is "Sandbagging" and killing you on a pointless weeknight. They're just a person killing you. It makes no sense to think that someone would be trying to keep a low ranking, but beating you badly on a regular season match. there's no benefit.
The 23 rule does seem to get in the way a lot. I was on a nationals team that had a set lineup do to the 23. The team was well under it at the start of our original session, but do to practice and coaching players moved up. That's just something that need's to be dealt with.
The 23 ad's strategy. It make's a low rated players games as important as the higher rated one's.
People should just play.

 

[jjinfla]

I'm a captain and a Divisional Rep. I've been in the APA for about two years and am an SL7 (8-ball).

In my experience, the main problem with the APA system, and the number one reason why people will try and sandbag is the 23-rule. The figure is not only too low, but it discourages improvement throughout the year (three seasons). At the beginning of Summer (the beginning of the APA year), my team was 7,4,4,4,3,3,3,2. I chose players that are keen to learn, and I am more happy to give time helping them improve. At the end of the Spring session, the same eight players were 7,5,5,5,5,4,4,3. All the hard work was worthless since we could hardly even field a team, and I could hardly ever play. We lost five of our last six matches and missed out on the Gold Cup. The problem I found was that making people better HURT our chances. It's almost like if I had taught the players nothing, we would have been rewarded. Anyone read Atlas Shrugged? That is the reason why I was thinking of giving it up, but I've made so many friends and I have such a great time playing and teaching that I decided not to. I even wrote to the APA saying that the 23-rule should be based on handicaps at the BEGINNING of the yearly cycle for players with 20 matches or more but I heard nothing back from them.

As for handicaps. Yes, it is based on your best 10 of 20. If you are 50% then that it is obviously based on ten wins. When a player goes to 9-11 in their last 20 that is when handicaps are much more likely to drop as a 'loss' is factored in. The inning score for a loss is much higher and this skews the figures. Go to 8-12 or 7-13 and you're almost certain to go down. If you want to know exactly how it works, there are plenty of posts that explain it. You can search for it on Google, it's not difficult to find.

Hey Hobo,

You don't like the 23 rule in 8- ball? Try 9-ball where the SL's go up to 9.

You do understand that when a team cannot be fielded because of the 23 rule then that team must split up and form two new teams. Or maybe three new teams. And that has been happening since the APA has started and that is why there are over 250,000 APA members. Although they are not all playing. Once an APA member, always an APA member.

I never tell anyone to sandbag or to lose or to pad innings. What I do do is know my players and my opposing players and make the matchups accordingly. I could pretty well predict at the start of every match if my player is going to win or not. And boy it is so predictable. One can't play first; another can't play against a women. (That is something that bothers a lot of males.) Others are afraid of certain players; playing my 2's against 1's 2's or 3's scares them but 5's or 6's they kill. Calling a timeout really upsets some players. It's all in knowing your players and how to match them up.

It's basically a lot of fun; not to be taken seriously; not to be confused with championship pool. But the smoke is starting to get to me and I think I will stop after this session and just play the tournaments again. And I am getting tired of just having to be there week after week. It just never ends. That is my biggest objection to league play.

Jake

 

[Kevin]

It seems that the honest APA players are on this site. The sandbaggers must be in their dungeons sipping blood and conceiving of ways douse everyone's pool playing spirits.
Has anyone noticed that after you play a match and kill another player the discussion of you being under rated doesn't cross your mind? Or even that you should be complaining that your opponent may be over rated? Next time you win big you should tell your area director that your opponent should mover down so that next time you play you guys can be even... We'll, see how many of you jump to that.
No one is "Sandbagging" and killing you on a pointless weeknight. They're just a person killing you. It makes no sense to think that someone would be trying to keep a low ranking, but beating you badly on a regular season match. there's no benefit.
The 23 rule does seem to get in the way a lot. I was on a nationals team that had a set lineup do to the 23. The team was well under it at the start of our original session, but do to practice and coaching players moved up. That's just something that need's to be dealt with.
The 23 ad's strategy. It make's a low rated players games as important as the higher rated one's.
People should just play.

I can't do much more here, I started APA in 1987 when it was locally new, and my captain offered teaching the high art of defense and/or APA sandbagging. I learned lots. Lots. Lots. Before, total offense was the rule, he opened the door to the other 50% of the game. Thank You Noble Lathrom, a 23 handicap limit is a lesson in making a winning team for the season, and allowing expansion/growth.

Feeling foolish and constrained, after 5 straight quarters of winning local league pool, I chose to ignore handicap considerations.... shot great, fell short, shot from a winnning 4 to a losing 6... lessons from there, that was 17yrs ago for me.

Summary: If you are playing in any handicapped pool league and still learning/growing/gettiing better, stay with it, gravitate towards captains/players that can help you step up to the next level. If you begin to feel the $$/time/benefit working against you, re-evaluate, and consider options. Easy to say, hard to do. But if you find yourself balking at paying league dues for the next year, take two weeks vacation from pool circles and answer yourself why. You may need another league to challenge.

 

[chefjeff]

But that's what I mean. You're focused on winning within the system rather than teammate's progression. I mean, don't get me wrong, I know why the rules are the way they are which is why these things happen but listen to yourself. Your not interested in pool. You're interested in the APA. When someone goes up, you should congratulate them, offer encouragement. Instead, you're worried that your team's chances are at risk.


I want it noted that when I captained an APA team, I had an s/l 4 who was tearing up the league in her first season. When she was bumped to the 5, we did nothing but congratulate her. We knew it was coming and were prepared to reshape the team, if needed. NEVER would I have impeded her progress because of team interests. Having one's rating go up is worthy of merit. That s/l 4 was Jennifer Barretta. I'm not going to go so far as to say her success had anything to do with me. That's really irrelevant. The point is that how you treat other people's progress speaks volumes and can have potential ramifications. I had no idea that Jennifer was eventually going to be playing in the WPBA (we hoped, though) but by no means was I going to keep her at an s/l 4 so that we might have a chance at Las Vegas! Looking back on it now illustrates how ridiculous a thought it would have been.

Wow. I always wondered how many potentially great players were thwarted by the APA. You're the dude, Jude!

According to the ads they used to run, the way to the pros is via the APA. I became a little pissy whenever I saw these ads.

Did the APA get Jennifer into the game, itself? If so, go APA!

Jeff Livingston

 

[frankncali]

23 rule

In 8-ball the 23 point rule is set very well IMO. Usually the higher rated player wins and if the max was raised it would be nothing but 4's and up playing. Low level players would be discouraged.

As for 9-ball I really cant see the APAs stance for the 23 point rule.
The same players they welcome as 6's and 7's in 8-ball are almost shut out
in 9-ball.

Im a 9 and a 7 and I can play and be a part of a team as a 7 alot easier than
as a 9. As a nine I almost hurt the team by playing. Also theres just not that
many 1-2-3's out there not too mention getting them on the same team.

IMO the nine ball league's scoring system is better than the 8ball one. It doesn't do a team alot of good to sandbag and lose when all points count.


I thinks theres 100 times more talk about someone sandbagging than there
actually is sandbagging going on. Theres almost an art to it and most players really dont understand how to do it.

In the league I play in I see more people overrated than underrated. IMO
one of the biggest flaws in the 8ball handicapping is that it appears
the losers winning % does not matter very much.
I have a 3 thats 3 for her last 16 and she is still a three. IMO thats not fair to her. Now she almost hates playing.

Theres flaws but its still fun. I enjoy getting out with my buddys.
I would love to find a team of players that would love to learn and get better but thats almost an impossibility.

 

[hobokenapa]

Theres flaws but its still fun. I enjoy getting out with my buddys.
I would love to find a team of players that would love to learn and get better but thats almost an impossibility.

You do not have players that want to improve? You probably need a mix. I have a couple of players for who it is just a night out to get out with friends, have some drinks and maybe play some pool. I have others that are keen to improve and want to learn (my 5 that was a 3 for example). When he went up, he asked me if having him as a 4 would help the team. I told him it would but I could never hold back a person that really wants to get better, and is now targetting a six. Jude had it spot on here.

As for 9-ball, I agree it can be tough to field a team with high ranked players. I am an SL8 on my 9-ball team but we do have three 3s so I can get a game. We also have a second much smaller, and more laid-back APA division that only the really keen players play in. In this division, teams are more than happy just to waive the 23 rule. Remember, the 23-rule is not cast in stone. Captains can agree to waive it. This division is on 9ft tables, and a SL5 that wants to learn would much rather play me as an SL8 that some SL2 or SL3.

Regarding 23 being the right level. It would be if it didn't go on your current level. I want to grow my players over the year not be held back by the 23. But once we get to Summer, I've not problem getting more low ranked players in to meet 23.

 

[FLICKit]

Just to recap. Sounds like most of you believe that it should be changed to at least 24-rule for 9-ball. With the higher handicap levels in 9-ball (7,8,9), that would provide more room for players to reasonably field a team.

Most of you like the 9-ball scoring system, because it's basically worthless to sandbag, due to the points awarded for the team, based on balls.


But, some of you are hesitant to raise to the 24-rule in 8-ball, because you recognize the advantages for team growth, and for welcoming new players. You have a concern that the 24-rule would significantly change the strategies that are involved.

I'm not saying that I totally disagree with you on the 8-ball 23-rule. There are many reasons to favor the 23-rule. I'm simply suggesting that 1 point, won't be as drastic as you're making it out to be. Yes, you could form a team of 6,6,4,4,4 which would be pretty nice. But, you could also form some teams to counteract that (i.e. 7,6,4,4,3 or 7,7,4,4,2 and 7,7,5,3,2 and others). Not to mention that these would be the handicap numbers that you'd want at the end of the year. And, as many of you in the APA have stated, you develop the skills and abilities of your players. Since the APA handicap system is more finely tuned than most others, it adjusts to reflect the current abilities of these players. Raising a skill level is encouragement and recognition for development of pool abilities. Also, higher skill levels, means extra games are played, which also further aids in the progress of those players. Knowing all of this, would require the initial team to start off lower than 24 (i.e. 7,5,3,3,3). There would still be a place for all levels of pool players, but it could help to reduce the issue of the team progressing and being over-capped by the end of the year. Obviously 25-rule wouldn't be wise, because it really would exclude a large market of new people to play pool, which is not what we want for league, or for the growth and expansion of the pool world as a whole. But, I suggest that 24-rule might have more advantages and less disadvantages than you might initially think.

As has been said, there are times when the captains have agreed to forgo the 23-rule. Not recommended, should not be done, whenever possible. Will never be done in any higher level tournaments. But, it didn't have nearly as much of a negative effect as some may have feared. It actually worked fine, and the teams still had a comfortable balance of players.

Also remember, just because there is a 24-rule in effect, does not mean you should field a 24 limit team. Unless you have enough lower rated back up players, your team needs to be under the team max, just in case you have a few players who become inbetween two levels (i.e. strong 4, weak 5). Or in case your team succeeds, and thus players would be mostly winning over the course of 20 matches, which would be prime rationale for a skill level raise to ensure the integrity of the game.


Plus, since most of you would like to raise to the 24-rule in 9-ball, it would be nice to use 24-rule in 8-ball just to maintain consistency. Obviously, as an absolute, the max team points don't have to match in 8-ball & 9-ball. Just for consistency and not creating confusion, it would be nice if they stayed the same.


Not saying that it has to be done... Just raising thoughts to ponder on... Looking at it from the pluses and minuses of both sides of the argument...
Things that make you go hmmmm........

 

[frankncali]

flickit

you make some good points but I think the 1 point would come into play more than you think. However in 9-ball theres a rule about playing more than
2 sl6's and up. You cant do that so maybe if it were raised to 24 in 8-ball
a similiar rule could be placed to keep teams from only playing high numbers.

IMO in 8ball the more low rated players that have to play hurts the teams chances for wins. So with 24 points I would try to find a team with numbers
like 7,6,5,5,5,4,2,2 or maybe two 4s and two 5s. Only one lower rated player per night.

In my area there are very few players that honestly want to get better. The ones that do are very noticeable. Its odd because in our area there are
very good players. Not just good APA players but good anywhere. Oddly
its hard to get players to listen and to practice. Here most players play
3-4 nights per week and on the other days they dont play much. Most of the places we play dont have enough tables for the teams to practice or the
players just dont play unless they are playing a match.
In the last year or so theres been a good handful of players really listen and
put in some thought and practice. All of those have gotten better. One would think others would take notice and try to copy them but it does not
happen.

I dont worry about handicaps to much and really try to take a look at the games. If my 3 has chances to win and what they did to either win or lose.
Every now and then I see a match where a player what outclassed but thats
mainly at the higher levels.

I would love to go to Vegas with a team that can compete but wonder if it will happen. I still question whether things I have heard are correct. Mainly
that sl's are local and that a sl4 in say Boston could be a sl3 or sl5 elsewhere. Or that a sl7 might not be a sl7 in another area. If this is true
then the nationals are majorly unfair. But theres still beer to drink and fun to
be had.

 

[Koop]

I would love to go to Vegas with a team that can compete but wonder if it will happen. I still question whether things I have heard are correct. Mainly
that sl's are local and that a sl4 in say Boston could be a sl3 or sl5 elsewhere. Or that a sl7 might not be a sl7 in another area. If this is true
then the nationals are majorly unfair. But theres still beer to drink and fun to
be had.

Hi Frank,

I was in Vegas back in 99 for the 9-ball championships and I can tell you that SL's vary throughout the nation. I found, though not always the case, that the coasts were rated lower than their counterparts in the rest of the country. I was a 6 and played a 7 from Missouri. I ended up beating the guy with a 19-1 score. Thinking this may be a fluke I watched as the rest of my guys dismantled them and in some cases I think it had to do with their handicaps being too high. Not trying to pick on Missouri, just using that team as an example.
On a side note, we played on 9 footers all year and then in Vegas we were on 7 footers. I don't know how much difference your handicap would move but I think there is some relevance as to which size you play on. Those 7 footers in Vegas had buckets for pockets and nothing was a long shot. We ended up in 7th place but knocked out two teams that had previously won the whole thing. I have my inclinations as to why we lost and it has to do with so many posts that are going on about what's wrong with the APA. My team included which I am not proud to admit.

Dave

 

[jjinfla]

Anyone know why the APA only goes to a 7 in 8-ball but goes to a 9 in 9-ball?

Jake

 

[FLICKit]

flickit

you make some good points but I think the 1 point would come into play more than you think. However in 9-ball theres a rule about playing more than
2 sl6's and up. You cant do that so maybe if it were raised to 24 in 8-ball
a similiar rule could be placed to keep teams from only playing high numbers.

Well, that's what's being presented for discussion. Would the impact of a 24-rule be as big as people think, bigger than people might think, or smaller?

In listening to people's comments about the 23-rule, you hear how people at times have difficulty putting together a successful team that stays under the cap. It comes up just enough, that it is worthwhile to at least consider other options, to see if that issue could be resolved. When you hear complaints, you have to consider some possible remedies. With enough consideration, you may fight a worthwhile resolution, that makes things better for all. At the same time, you have to be able to articulate the pitfalls of the different scenarios. When you fully understand the positives and negatives, then you're in a better position to assess what's best for the future.

IMO in 8ball the more low rated players that have to play hurts the teams chances for wins. So with 24 points I would try to find a team with numbers
like 7,6,5,5,5,4,2,2 or maybe two 4s and two 5s. Only one lower rated player per night.

Of course, you have to beware. When you try to go that high with your caps, then you have to play at least one 2. Unless you have a strong 2 (ready to become 3), then it's very unlikely that your 2 will win. Given that, then you're relying on winning 3 out of 4 matches every time, which can be tough. Especially if you get matched up against a comparable team like 7,6,5,5,4,4,3,3 or 7,6,6,4,4,4,3,3. You've basically given up the 1 match, in order to get an edge in another match, and the remainder of the matches are toss ups that depend on who plays better that night. I'd take that challenge against ya.

IMO, it still provides good balance and competition, which is what's key to being successful.

 

[frankncali]

Flickit

Your right about playing the 2. But I feel the same way about 3s as well.
Thats why I take the higher rated guys. In the lineup I mentioned earlier it
would be better to have 2 sl 4s probably. Or drop the 6 and add a 3 or 4.

Its all about winning percentages. A friend of mine has kept stats on his players pretty intensely and he has some great data. He has made it to Vegas 4 times in the last 6 years. He had a guy that was a 5 that had an
interesting stat. He had never lost against a sl7 but had never beaten a
2 or 3. Others showed trouble in giving up weight when compared to an
even race or getting a spot.

I like the matchup game for playoffs and regionals. During the season I try
to even play out as much as possible. In 8ball I can play every week and it not hurt the team as long as I win. My % is pretty high. In 9ball I am lucky to get in 4-6 plays and sometimes I think I hurt the team by playing.
24 would really help in 9ball and would not hurt lower rated players chances
of playing and competing that much. Afterall a team can only play two senior level players anyway.
BTW- just looking for your opinion or anyones but I am thinking about having
a tournament. It will be 3 players and in the 8ball format. Each team MUST
have 1 player either sl 2-3 , 4-5, 6-7. One from each grouping. Play will be true APA handicap races. I only want the players to play other players from their same grouping. Also I am trying to work it to where all three players play every match. I have thought about a round robin format at the start but time is a factor there. Still not 100% how to do it. Other factors are deciding what order the players play. Is it fair to let the lag decide or a coin flip? I might not be able to make it where all players play each match.
Just trying to think of something different. Theres some type of tournament every two months here. I just had a 9ball one last weekend and it went pretty well. 52 players @ $20 entry. Was hoping for 64. We had a break contest as well. Balls were in the same order and the breaker got two breaks.
The total of the balls number(ie the 9 is worth 9 points) is added for both breaks. One guy made 7 points on his first break and then 20 on his next but scratched leaving him with only the original 7. It was fun and something different to do.

 

[FLICKit]

Flickit
Your right about playing the 2. But I feel the same way about 3s as well.
Thats why I take the higher rated guys. In the lineup I mentioned earlier it
would be better to have 2 sl 4s probably. Or drop the 6 and add a 3 or 4.

I agree. That's one of the strengths of the APA handicapping system. In general, when you look at skill levels, the higher you are, the higher the average win% will be for that skill level grouping. Of course for individuals in each grouping there will always be exceptions. But, for the groups as a whole, I'd say it basically works out that way.

A 3 at least has a modicum of a chance. Some 3's are actually pretty good, but just very inconsistent. Strong one day, weak the next few times. But, under the right circumstances they at least have a chance. Plus, sometimes they can be useful against higher level (5's and 6's and sometimes 7's), because it puts alotta pressure on the higher level player. 1 error 8 or scratch 8 can have devastating effects.

Its all about winning percentages. A friend of mine has kept stats on his players pretty intensely and he has some great data. He has made it to Vegas 4 times in the last 6 years. He had a guy that was a 5 that had an
interesting stat. He had never lost against a sl7 but had never beaten a
2 or 3. Others showed trouble in giving up weight when compared to an
even race or getting a spot.

Yep. That's smart tactics. Fun to be able to strategize that way.

I like the matchup game for playoffs and regionals. During the season I try
to even play out as much as possible. In 8ball I can play every week and it not hurt the team as long as I win. My % is pretty high. In 9ball I am lucky to get in 4-6 plays and sometimes I think I hurt the team by playing.
24 would really help in 9ball and would not hurt lower rated players chances
of playing and competing that much. Afterall a team can only play two senior level players anyway.
BTW- just looking for your opinion or anyones but I am thinking about having
a tournament. It will be 3 players and in the 8ball format. Each team MUST
have 1 player either sl 2-3 , 4-5, 6-7. One from each grouping. Play will be true APA handicap races. I only want the players to play other players from their same grouping. Also I am trying to work it to where all three players play every match. I have thought about a round robin format at the start but time is a factor there. Still not 100% how to do it. Other factors are deciding what order the players play. Is it fair to let the lag decide or a coin flip? I might not be able to make it where all players play each match.
Just trying to think of something different. Theres some type of tournament every two months here. I just had a 9ball one last weekend and it went pretty well. 52 players @ $20 entry. Was hoping for 64. We had a break contest as well. Balls were in the same order and the breaker got two breaks.
The total of the balls number(ie the 9 is worth 9 points) is added for both breaks. One guy made 7 points on his first break and then 20 on his next but scratched leaving him with only the original 7. It was fun and something different to do.

Interesting tournament format. I like the idea. May have to try it. Maybe should even set a team handicap limit of 13 or 14 so teams aren't just the highest skill level in each grouping.

Options for deciding the order:
1. Simply start with lowest grouping, and finish with highest grouping.
That way hill/hill matches will be decided by your big guns. Could be a lotta fun when everything is on the line.

2. Whoever wins the flip, chooses who (your team or other team) decides the first grouping (2-3, 4-5, or 6-7) to play. Whoever didn't choose the first grouping, would make the 2nd choice. Final grouping would be obvious.
Strategies of that could prove very interesting...

 

[catscradle]

I'm serious when I say this, there is NOTHING a league could offer me that I would trade for my pool game. If I were you and my captain told me to add a few innings, I'd grab my cue and leave. Vegas airfare is cheap. Your pool game and your reputation aren't. I'm fortunate to live in an area that has several league options so I never had to settle for what was available. Hopefully, you have similiar luxuries.

Took your advice Jude.
Last night when my captain said I'd be playing and there was "... no need for me to win." I refused to slow playing citing the fact that it was f@@#%g up my game in general. He wasn't happy. He didn't play me in 9-ball where he was most afraid of me going up, but did play me in 8-ball against a 5 (I'm a 6 and not in danger of going up). I immediately got down 2 games (I think because I was really exhausted from soccer that morning), and I think he was kind of pleased to see me in danger of losing. I then got things together concentrating on fundamentals, and won 2. My opponent then won the next and was on the hill. I then really buckled down and took the next 3, winning 5-3.
I really felt justified, thanks for the advice.

 

[Koop]

Took your advice Jude.
Last night when my captain said I'd be playing and there was "... no need for me to win." I refused to slow playing citing the fact that it was f@@#%g up my game in general. He wasn't happy. He didn't play me in 9-ball where he was most afraid of me going up, but did play me in 8-ball against a 5 (I'm a 6 and not in danger of going up). I immediately got down 2 games (I think because I was really exhausted from soccer that morning), and I think he was kind of pleased to see me in danger of losing. I then got things together concentrating on fundamentals, and won 2. My opponent then won the next and was on the hill. I then really buckled down and took the next 3, winning 5-3.
I really felt justified, thanks for the advice.

Nice job Steve. I've seen way too many guys turn their games to shit because the captain is constantly telling them to lose. The 9 ball team that I was on in Vegas was a prime example. The guys who bagged it to get out there could not get in stroke and instead of helping the team, it hurt it. Never again will I be a part of a team that caters to this crap.
Sorry for rambling but again, great job.

Koop

 

[Egg McDogit]

I don't see how it it's possible to not sandbag in the apa, if you're looking to goto vegas or win the tournaments. But to me, the point of the league is to grow interest in pool and for beginners to improve. If you're not into that aspect of the game, then maybe the league isn't for you.

I've played in 1 apa tournament (8 ball) - and it was my only apa experience. My friend and I were both sandbagging a bit...we thought we'd take this thing off. I have to say, I found the apa mindboggling. The handicaps made NO sense to me at all. I played a 7 (highest apa rating?) who was terrible...couldn't run 4 balls. I played a 4 who played decent safes on me and ran out or came close if/when I sold out. I played a few other people who had ratings that didn't make any sense compared to the other people I'd played. I ended up losing to a 2 who played safes and could run out..the race was rough..I was giving up 4-5 games to 6 or something like that. That was a STRONG 2 haha. I have no idea what the apa is thinking with the handicaps, but none of the handicaps made sense to me.

I thought the whole apa event was a hilarious melodramatic fracas. All the people who were trying to take the thing off were whining and yelling at each other and the td's. All the people who were there to have fun seemed to have fun. I also learned that when you play in the apa, when the other person fouls, you DON'T TOUCH THE CUE BALL UNTIL IT STOPS ROLLING COMPLETELY.

In conclusion, my friend and I gave up on robbing this apa tournament...it's hard work giving up 3-5 games in a short race to people who can run more than 5 balls, play position, and play decent safes. I feel bad for anyone who's got an honest team together and is trying to goto vegas.

peace

 

[Skess]

Nice job Steve. I've seen way too many guys turn their games to shit because the captain is constantly telling them to lose. The 9 ball team that I was on in Vegas was a prime example. The guys who bagged it to get out there could not get in stroke and instead of helping the team, it hurt it. Never again will I be a part of a team that caters to this crap.
Sorry for rambling but again, great job.

Koop

I had to laugh when I saw this post. We just started our local LTC 9 ball playoffs yesterday. With one exception, every team that qualified early and then bagged their way through a couple sessions to be careful, were knocked out 0-2. I have to admit that I enjoyed watching it happen.

As for us, we lost our first match is a tight one, but came back to win the next two. We play again tonight. The unfortunate thing for me is that I shot myself off the team. Incredibly, I was raised to an 8 after my second match yesterday and now I can't shoot under the 23 rule. If you knew my game, you'd understand what I mean by "incredibly".

Our team had been walking the wire on handicaps all year, but we had a 2 at the bottom that made sure we could shoot what we needed to. The problem arose when I got to the tournament and found out that my 2 was ineligible because she only had 6 matches played. She needed 10. I couldn't believe that I hadn't caught that. It was nobody's fault but my own. I knew the rule and it just never dawned on me during the spring session. I've played alot of pool in the last 10 years in leagues and had my share of good wins and tough losses, but the worst thing so far was telling my 2 that she was ineligible to play because I screwed up. She took it fairly well, but I still felt like hell all day. Hopefully, we win this thing and I'll pick up her trip to Vegas. It's the least I can do at this point.

I also had a solid 3 leave the team when she moved for a job. That leaves us with 5 players that total exactly 23. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for the next couple nights as we try to get through a tough losers bracket.

Hope we can do it...