APA Rankings

[FLICKit]

The underlying problem with the APA, as much fun as it may be, is that you spend an incredible amount of time among beginners. That isn't to say that one shouldn't devote some of their time to improving the games of others but if you're serious about getting better, you'll need to concentrate on your own game.

When I was in the APA, I was an s/l 7 (8-ball) and went MONTHS without ever playing another 7. On top of that, I rarely played 7's in the post-season. Most of my matches were against players who were expected to lose, players the other team wanted to lose or players that were supposed to be underrated. Needless to say, it was an odd adventure every time. Most of my opponents didn't know how to play pool and even if they did, they didn't know anything about appropriate behaivor. They'd argue about ridiculous things, play ridiculous shots and in the end, lose and not know what happened. Occasionally, I'd get a gentleman who'd compliment me on my game but for the most part, I got a bunch of complainers.

In one match, I fouled by not hitting a solid. Prior to the ball rolling to a complete stop, I picked up the cue-ball and handed it to my opponent. It wasn't going to hit ANYTHING and I figured I'd just concede ball-in-hand. My opponent immediately said, "You can't do that." I replied, "Can't do what? Concede ball-in-hand? Or else what? It's a foul?" He immediately lost his temper but I couldn't help but point out how ridiculous he was being. I wasn't changing the lay-out of the table. Nothing was near the projected path of the cue-ball. By the time the match was over, I had won 5-0 and he literally started throwing the balls around bouncing them off the table and onto the floor and chucking a whiskey glass across the room. THIS over a picked-up cue-ball and the fact that I had ruined his chances of winning MVP that season.

Honestly, this is something I no longer deal with. Not only are the players in my league more polite and sober. They're better. Half of my time is spent playing people at my skill level and the rest is divided among players slightly above and slightly below. We don't need to win to go to qualify for Las Vegas. All we need to do is fill out the form and send it in. It's a better, more serious league that anyone who is interested in improving should consider. If you're in the New York City area, Amsterdam Billiards is holding registration today but you can sign up any time in the next week. The number is 212-496-8180 and you can PM me for more information.

OK... thanks for filling in the details...

True, the APA is the most welcoming to all levels of pool players. This includes the beginners. That's obvious. Everybody has to learn the game at some point. As has already been stated, the APA has taken many players and provided a fun recreational way for them to develop and progress. Many of these players have progressed to levels to where they are probably playing against you in your league right now. (Respectfully speaking don't try the line, where you try to deny that players have progressed). That's fine... Having fun and getting better is what it's about... Along with advancing the game of pool to a broader and broader audience.

I understand that you've already formulated your opinions and would be unlikely to change that. Plus, it sounds like you've had some bad experiences from how things were run in your area. Sorry to hear that. Things like that shouldn't happen anywhere or anytime under any league format. Unfortunately in life nothing is perfect, so we all have to adjust to what life has given us. Or correct problems in areas, where we can, so that it doesn't happen to others. Obviously, this will not always be the case....

The APA also has a triple play masters format. It is a non-handicapped league and is designed to bring out the top level competition. At the top level, there are some very strong players, which not very many other amateur players in the country could compete with. This format is one of the ways in for those amateur player who want to turn pro. They hold tournaments whereby the winners advance to the pro ranks.

 

[hobokenapa]

Bca

Jude, how do the handicaps work for BCA 8-ball? Are the Amsterdam Leagues (8-ball and 9-ball) BCA leagues?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Jude, how do the handicaps work for BCA 8-ball? Are the Amsterdam Leagues (8-ball and 9-ball) BCA leagues?

Currently, only the Team 9-ball League is BCA sanctioned (Thursday Nights) though that will hopefully change in the near future. All handicaps are games on the wire (like the APA) and have a chart that's a little bigger than the one on the APA scoresheet.

The handicaps are as follows:

D, D+, C, C+, B, B+, A, A+, Open, Open+, Professional

Two D's race to 7. Two A's race to 8. Two Opens race to 9. Lower ranked player will typically need to win 5 games but that may be more or less depending on the two skill levels. I know when Ginky plays a D, it's usually a 13-2 race (or something like that).

 

[FLICKit]

Currently, only the Team 9-ball League is BCA sanctioned (Thursday Nights) though that will hopefully change in the near future.

This is getting a bit off topic from the thread title.

How about creating another thread with the appropriate title, and we all can resume that discussion there...

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Currently, only the Team 9-ball League is BCA sanctioned (Thursday Nights) though that will hopefully change in the near future. All handicaps are games on the wire (like the APA) and have a chart that's a little bigger than the one on the APA scoresheet.

The handicaps are as follows:

D, D+, C, C+, B, B+, A, A+, Open, Open+, Professional

Two D's race to 7. Two A's race to 8. Two Opens race to 9. Lower ranked player will typically need to win 5 games but that may be more or less depending on the two skill levels. I know when Ginky plays a D, it's usually a 13-2 race (or something like that).

To add to this, there is a 1 game difference between skill levels. A D playing a D+ will get 1 game going to 7 (D+ needs to win 7 before D wins 6). A D playing a B will get 4 games on the wire going to 9 (D needs to win 5 before B wins 9).

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

This is getting a bit off topic from the thread title.

How about creating another thread with the appropriate title, and we all can resume that discussion there...

I'm sorry FLICKit but I think the original topic is dead. If you feel a need to go back to APA issues, I suggest you should start a new one.

 

[FLICKit]

I'm sorry FLICKit but I think the original topic is dead. If you feel a need to go back to APA issues, I suggest you should start a new one.

So you want to have a full BCA discussion, in a thread title that has nothing to do with BCA??

Would think just for easy reference at a later time, it might be easier to refer people to a thread with BCA in the title, rather than anything else.


Hey! Where can I go to find out details about BCA leagues...
Well duh, just go to TAP sucks, section 3, and you'll find it all.

 

[Cue of Fury]

I didn't say that. I asked has anyone else had this experience. His comments were so far outta whack, that it was very unlikely to be true.

Have YOU had that same kind of experience? If so, I'd be interested in hearing the details... If not, then I wouldn't be so quick to pick either side. Wouldn't recommend jumping to any conclusions before acquiring the details.

People can say anything as long as they stay vague (that system sucks, it's the worst of em all, that player is way underrated, I hate this game, it sucks...). The question is can your statements still hold water, when you get into the details.

Of course, some details you'll never know... Given that, you can only have a subjective opinion about those issues. In cases where things are that subjective, it's not worth ruffling feathers over. But in cases where you can back up your statements with an honest and provable dialogue, then that holds much more weight. I welcome hearing the evidence...

Some can't present any evidence, so they immediately respond with emotion and subjectivity... You have to weigh that evidence accordingly...

I have had a lot of the same experiences and those experiences are why I no longer play APA. I found that most of the teams in my league were having whoever was keeping score to not mark defensive shots, which would be to assume that this person even had the first clue as to what a defensive shot was. Also, as Jude experienced, the level of complaints about handicaps was enough to take the fun out of participating.

There were also times where we would have to play at this one bar where the home team thought that it was just a great idea to attempt to physically intimidate the opposing team, shout obscenities to random patrons, and otherwise act out of line. When I spoke with my team captain about it he told me that the LO had a list of complaints against them a mile long and that nothing had been done about it. It was pointless to file another one, so we were stuck dealing with that wonderful situation.

As you can tell, my experience with the APA did not meet my expectations for a fun way to enjoy the game.

 

[FLICKit]

I'm sorry FLICKit but I think the original topic is dead.

That may be sorta the point anyway....

After 8 pages of discussion in this thread.
Don't wanna start up a brand new discussion in the same thread...

That's just overkill....

 

[hobokenapa]

It may not be a big deal to many people, but playing in Amsterdam Billiards with NO SMOKE is just absolute heaven. After having played in APA Leagues in Hoboken/Secaucas for three years, I've probably smoked 20 a day as a NON-SMOKER. I've lost my voice and been sick more than once after a whole weekend tournament in Herberts/Willow Billiards/Roebling.

 

[FLICKit]

I have had a lot of the same experiences and those experiences are why I no longer play APA. I found that most of the teams in my league were having whoever was keeping score to not mark defensive shots, which would be to assume that this person even had the first clue as to what a defensive shot was. Also, as Jude experienced, the level of complaints about handicaps was enough to take the fun out of participating.

There were also times where we would have to play at this one bar where the home team thought that it was just a great idea to attempt to physically intimidate the opposing team, shout obscenities to random patrons, and otherwise act out of line. When I spoke with my team captain about it he told me that the LO had a list of complaints against them a mile long and that nothing had been done about it. It was pointless to file another one, so we were stuck dealing with that wonderful situation.

As you can tell, my experience with the APA did not meet my expectations for a fun way to enjoy the game.

See... you are a bit different than EggMcDogitt.
I always think it's funny when someone like him, who is a self-proclaimed sandbagger, gets mad when his plans are thwarted.

He also made claims that a 2 played run out pool. That doesn't happen. Unless,
1. that player got super lucky. But losers in any level of pool, don't often give you all the details OR
2. the 2 made significant improvements in their playing ability.
improvement is what it's about... but that level of improvement is ludicrous.
From first time player, to run out pool. You don't see that happen like that.

Cheating happens in everything in life. Unfortunately that's all too human. As a result, measures have to be put in place to minimize it.

Let me ask you this....
since there are 2 scoresheets (1 for each team), and yours doesn't have to match theirs exactly, were you marking the safeties down on your scoresheet?

As long as you take responsibility for the things that you can affect, then measures are in place that can minimize/eliminate that type of cheating. Or, if not that, then at least make it not rewarding...

 

[Cue of Fury]

It may not be a big deal to many people, but playing in Amsterdam Billiards with NO SMOKE is just absolute heaven. After having played in APA Leagues in Hoboken/Secaucas for three years, I've probably smoked 20 a day as a NON-SMOKER. I've lost my voice and been sick more than once after a whole weekend tournament in Herberts/Willow Billiards/Roebling.

It is a big deal to me, a smoke free environment would be great to play in.

 

[FLICKit]

It may not be a big deal to many people, but playing in Amsterdam Billiards with NO SMOKE is just absolute heaven. After having played in APA Leagues in Hoboken/Secaucas for three years, I've probably smoked 20 a day as a NON-SMOKER. I've lost my voice and been sick more than once after a whole weekend tournament in Herberts/Willow Billiards/Roebling.

Yeah, there are many APA leagues in my area, in non-smoking bars. I don't smoke and I hate it. The image of pool would really improve and be more upscale, if there were many more non-smoking establishments.

For all you smokers, don't bother with the normal responses. I've heard ;em all before... That would be better served in a different thread as well...

 

[Cue of Fury]

See... you are a bit different than EggMcDogitt.
I always think it's funny when someone like him, who is a self-proclaimed sandbagger, gets mad when his plans are thwarted.

He also made claims that a 2 played run out pool. That doesn't happen. Unless,
1. that player got super lucky. But losers in any level of pool, don't often give you all the details OR
2. the 2 made significant improvements in their playing ability.
improvement is what it's about... but that level of improvement is ludicrous.
From first time player, to run out pool. You don't see that happen like that.

Cheating happens in everything in life. Unfortunately that's all too human. As a result, measures have to be put in place to minimize it.

Let me ask you this....
since there are 2 scoresheets (1 for each team), and yours doesn't have to match theirs exactly, were you marking the safeties down on your scoresheet?

As long as you take responsibility for the things that you can affect, then measures are in place that can minimize/eliminate that type of cheating. Or, if not that, then at least make it not rewarding...

Yes, my team captain insisted that we always mark defensive shots regardless of what the other team is doing. The problem is that our team was the only one marking them correctly.

 

[Egg McDogit]

Whack job? Dude what are you basing that on?? I'm not BS'ing you. I'm in the DC area. I've been playing seriously for about 2.5 years and that was the first time I've played in an apa event of any kind.

My friend's played in the tourney a couple times...and I went with him the previous week but they wouldn't let me play b/c I wasn't an apa member. I talked to the td and he agreed to let me play as a 5, but I'd need to signup for the apa.

Later that night, one of the apa guys in the tournament asked me to gamble...I'd never seen him play before. He wanted to play 20/rack 9 ball, but I wanted to lockup some sets. He wouldn't lockup and I decided it wasn't worth playing 20 a game and have the guy quit after 2 games. So I end up playing him real cheap by the game and slowing it down a little as to not blow my handicap (td was right there) and to possibly try to get some sets going, which might make it worthwhile to show a little. He quits on me after a few games and won't lockup...no big deal right...

I show up the next week and they tell me I'm going to have to play as a 6 because apparently the guy I "drilled" (while on the stall) the week before for a few bucks was a "strong 6"?!?!? The guy couldn't get out to save his life!! Ok fine...I still feel I have a good chance.

Well about 2 matches into the tournament, the substitute td (different one from the last week) tells me I'm a 7, but he can't raise me because it's not up to him - guess it's up to the guy from the week before. So if I go back and play again I'll be a 7. I have no desire to go play in that tournament again as a 7 (see the apa does prevent sandbagging)...because I'm not going there to play for fun and it'd be hard work and take some good rolls to win it there as a 7.

One of my matches was against an apa7. He got all pissed off because I shot the 8 without calling the pocket - the 8 was hanging in the corner pocket!! Then apparently there's some deal about "marking" your pocket in the apa? The guy road racked me BIG TIME - as in I'd break and the rack would remain in triangle form. I asked him if he'd mind if I racked my own, at which point he went off on me again. I didn't really care cause the guy wasn't very good and I don't even understand how he could be an apa7 - my understanding is that apa 7's get out when they're supposed to. He could run maybe 5 balls - and that was if I blew a ranout and left the table wide open. I felt sorry for the guy after I played a few more people...he can't win playing as a 7.

I lost against a 2, which was fine. The race was pretty brutal..like 6-2 or something like that..and if I remember right, I scratched on the 8 in the first game. I was thinking 2's could run like 2-3 balls and didn't really use much strategy. This guy wasn't amazing or anything - and it was my fault I lost - but he did break balls out of clusters, play position and safes, and he could run 6 balls. I think the 7 played a bit better, but they were in the same ballpark. Strategy-wise the 2 was better - and I am NOT bs'ing

As far as the drama, at one point the td was playing a 4. The 4 pushed through the cueball on a close shot and double hit it. The TD and the 4 got into a shouting match over it. The TD was literally screaming at the top of his lungs in the 4's face and it looked like it could come to blows. Other people had to intervene and get them away from each other. Oh and by the way, I've seen the 4 he was playing play in other tournaments and although I'm not 100% sure of how 4's are supposed to play, I know he's not a 4.

I saw a guy playing as a 4 who obviously isn't known in the apa circle. The guy strings racks lol. There's a pretty strong 4 for you. You can go ahead and think I'm bs'ing you, but I'm really not. Believe what you want, but I swear I know a couple guys who've strung as many as 6 racks in 9 ball playing as 4 and 5's.

peace
-egg

LOL... What a joke post!

Nice try....

If anybody besides this whack job, has had the same experiences, I'd really like to know...

If you're really gonna try to claim to be serious, what area do you play in, and how long have you been playing? And what's your rating?

 

[Egg McDogit]

I fessed up to sandbagging - and no I didn't get mad. All I could do is have a laugh at myself for thinking I could go in and rob the tournament and having the whole thing backfire on me. Actually that's exactly what my friend and I did after the tournament...have a laugh about how stupid we were and what a fiasco it was.

I gave the details in the post I just made. I screwed up and lost to the 2. No big deal it happens - and I deserved it for trying to sandbag. I should win regardless of how the other person plays or what their handicap is, and I take responsibility for losing. That aside, the 2 was running 5-6+ balls at a time with position and an intelligible pattern, playing safes (that I'd have to kick at, not weak safes) when he couldn't get out, breaking out balls, etc.
That's enough to give you a hard time in a short race if you're not playing well.

peace

See... you are a bit different than EggMcDogitt.
I always think it's funny when someone like him, who is a self-proclaimed sandbagger, gets mad when his plans are thwarted.

He also made claims that a 2 played run out pool. That doesn't happen. Unless,
1. that player got super lucky. But losers in any level of pool, don't often give you all the details OR
2. the 2 made significant improvements in their playing ability.
improvement is what it's about... but that level of improvement is ludicrous.
From first time player, to run out pool. You don't see that happen like that.

Cheating happens in everything in life. Unfortunately that's all too human. As a result, measures have to be put in place to minimize it.

Let me ask you this....
since there are 2 scoresheets (1 for each team), and yours doesn't have to match theirs exactly, were you marking the safeties down on your scoresheet?

As long as you take responsibility for the things that you can affect, then measures are in place that can minimize/eliminate that type of cheating. Or, if not that, then at least make it not rewarding...

 

[FLICKit]

I fessed up to sandbagging - and no I didn't get mad. All I could do is have a laugh at myself for thinking I could go in and rob the tournament and having the whole thing backfire on me. Actually that's exactly what my friend and I did after the tournament...have a laugh about how stupid we were and what a fiasco it was.

I gave the details in the post I just made. I screwed up and lost to the 2. No big deal it happens - and I deserved it for trying to sandbag. I should win regardless of how the other person plays or what their handicap is, and I take responsibility for losing. That aside, the 2 was running 5-6+ balls at a time with position and an intelligible pattern, playing safes (that I'd have to kick at, not weak safes) when he couldn't get out, breaking out balls, etc.
That's enough to give you a hard time in a short race if you're not playing well.

peace

Cool! At least this is a much more honest and descriptive post.

A strong 2. Sounds like you're really gonna back that up.

OK... what's the name of the 2, what area does he play in, and do you know for sure whether or not he's still playing?
I'd like to follow up with some research on this 2....

 

[Cue of Fury]

Do men start as 2's in APA 9 ball?

 

[FLICKit]

Do men start as 2's in APA 9 ball?

Simple answer. No.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Cool! At least this is a much more honest and descriptive post.

A strong 2. Sounds like you're really gonna back that up.

OK... what's the name of the 2, what area does he play in, and do you know for sure whether or not he's still playing?
I'd like to follow up with some research on this 2....

OMG, you're going to do some research on an s/l 2 who probably isn't even in your state, let alone your region? Please oh please tell me why!