APA Rankings

[Koop]

I had to laugh when I saw this post. We just started our local LTC 9 ball playoffs yesterday. With one exception, every team that qualified early and then bagged their way through a couple sessions to be careful, were knocked out 0-2. I have to admit that I enjoyed watching it happen.

Hey Skess,

I enjoy seeing it happen too. What most people don't realize in the APA, is that none of us are really good enough to bag a whole session and then try to turn it on when it counts. Good luck in the next round.

Koop

 

[chefjeff]

(snip all the usual problems...)

I also had a solid 3 leave the team when she moved for a job. That leaves us with 5 players that total exactly 23. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for the next couple nights as we try to get through a tough losers bracket.

Hope we can do it...

Well don't go to Vegas with a team 23...a friend of mine did this and when they got there, they were raised above that to whatever stupid number they've set as "too" high, and they couldn't even play one match!!! And this after a whole season of playing AND PAYING.

They sued the LO (and apa?). Not sure if they won but things like that really show the limits of apa. btw, none of these guys plays apa anymore.

Jeff Livingston

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Jude, I agree with you. That is why I'm still in the APA. I'm frustrated at the system but turning a weak 3 into a 5 has been very rewarding. Similary watching them go a long way in HLT events, and especially last summer when players that had never even won a match in Tri-Cups were going 3-0 and 3-1 in the Gold Cup to get us within one ball of Vegas.

On a similar note, does the Amsterdam Thurs 9-ball have any handicap restrictions? Or can you field an entire team of Open players?

You can't field an entire team of open players but you are allowed to have 2. On my current team, we have 2 Open players, one A player (myself, two C+'s and 1 C. It's best to have a diverse team since you'll need to match-up and these handicaps can be brutal.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Took your advice Jude.
Last night when my captain said I'd be playing and there was "... no need for me to win." I refused to slow playing citing the fact that it was f@@#%g up my game in general. He wasn't happy. He didn't play me in 9-ball where he was most afraid of me going up, but did play me in 8-ball against a 5 (I'm a 6 and not in danger of going up). I immediately got down 2 games (I think because I was really exhausted from soccer that morning), and I think he was kind of pleased to see me in danger of losing. I then got things together concentrating on fundamentals, and won 2. My opponent then won the next and was on the hill. I then really buckled down and took the next 3, winning 5-3.
I really felt justified, thanks for the advice.

I'm really happy to hear that! Good luck to you and perhaps, you should consider captaining your own team next season! You'll be surprised by how easy it is to recruit players when you care about their game more than the standings.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Wow. I always wondered how many potentially great players were thwarted by the APA. You're the dude, Jude!

According to the ads they used to run, the way to the pros is via the APA. I became a little pissy whenever I saw these ads.

Did the APA get Jennifer into the game, itself? If so, go APA!

Jeff Livingston

No, the local pool scene got Jennifer Barretta into the game. The APA was one branch of competitive pool for her. She also plays in Amsterdam's leagues, the Tri-State Tour, the Joss Tour, the NEWT tour, the Corner Billiards league and anything else that comes to town. Prior to her competing, she was at Chelsea Billiards DAILY. The woman had a love for the game before she ever started competing.

 

[chefjeff]

No, the local pool scene got Jennifer Barretta into the game. The APA was one branch of competitive pool for her. She also plays in Amsterdam's leagues, the Tri-State Tour, the Joss Tour, the NEWT tour, the Corner Billiards league and anything else that comes to town. Prior to her competing, she was at Chelsea Billiards DAILY. The woman had a love for the game before she ever started competing.

Thanks for the info, Jude. Damn!...and I was looking for the lazy man's way to fame. You mean I've gotta play all the time and practice, too?

Jennifer's quite an inspiration, for sure.

Jeff Livingston

 

[FLICKit]

I don't see how it it's possible to not sandbag in the apa, if you're looking to goto vegas or win the tournaments. But to me, the point of the league is to grow interest in pool and for beginners to improve. If you're not into that aspect of the game, then maybe the league isn't for you.

I've played in 1 apa tournament (8 ball) - and it was my only apa experience. My friend and I were both sandbagging a bit...we thought we'd take this thing off. I have to say, I found the apa mindboggling. The handicaps made NO sense to me at all. I played a 7 (highest apa rating?) who was terrible...couldn't run 4 balls. I played a 4 who played decent safes on me and ran out or came close if/when I sold out. I played a few other people who had ratings that didn't make any sense compared to the other people I'd played. I ended up losing to a 2 who played safes and could run out..the race was rough..I was giving up 4-5 games to 6 or something like that. That was a STRONG 2 haha. I have no idea what the apa is thinking with the handicaps, but none of the handicaps made sense to me.

I thought the whole apa event was a hilarious melodramatic fracas. All the people who were trying to take the thing off were whining and yelling at each other and the td's. All the people who were there to have fun seemed to have fun. I also learned that when you play in the apa, when the other person fouls, you DON'T TOUCH THE CUE BALL UNTIL IT STOPS ROLLING COMPLETELY.

In conclusion, my friend and I gave up on robbing this apa tournament...it's hard work giving up 3-5 games in a short race to people who can run more than 5 balls, play position, and play decent safes. I feel bad for anyone who's got an honest team together and is trying to goto vegas.

peace

LOL... What a joke post!

Nice try....

If anybody besides this whack job, has had the same experiences, I'd really like to know...

If you're really gonna try to claim to be serious, what area do you play in, and how long have you been playing? And what's your rating?

 

[FLICKit]

Well don't go to Vegas with a team 23...a friend of mine did this and when they got there, they were raised above that to whatever stupid number they've set as "too" high, and they couldn't even play one match!!! And this after a whole season of playing AND PAYING.

They sued the LO (and apa?). Not sure if they won but things like that really show the limits of apa. btw, none of these guys plays apa anymore.

Jeff Livingston

That may be a tough situation where you don't get to play the team. You got some bad breaks on that one. But at least you can still collect the travel money and go to Vegas. The Vegas events are so fun, even if your team can't compete. Many other events that you can compete in, and always much fun to be had in Vegas.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

That may be a tough situation where you don't get to play the team. You got some bad breaks on that one. But at least you can still collect the travel money and go to Vegas. The Vegas events are so fun, even if your team can't compete. Many other events that you can compete in, and always much fun to be had in Vegas.

Have you been to the BCA Event yet (the one happening now)?

 

[FLICKit]

Have you been to the BCA Event yet (the one happening now)?

Not yet. I'd like to check one out. I hear the BCA events are comparable in size to the APA ones. Those 2 are definitely the biggest.

 

[Cue of Fury]

LOL... What a joke post!

Nice try....

If anybody besides this whack job, has had the same experiences, I'd really like to know...

If you're really gonna try to claim to be serious, what area do you play in, and how long have you been playing? And what's your rating?

LOL, what are you saying, that this could not be possible in the APA?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Not yet. I'd like to check one out. I hear the BCA events are comparable in size to the APA ones. Those 2 are definitely the biggest.

They're MUCH bigger. They've had as many as 9,000 players. Not only that but you don't need to win your region in order to play. All you need to do is sign-up and pay the entry. AND, like the APA, there's plenty going on. Multiple events AND a pro event at the same time. IMHO, I think one's time is better spent PLANNING on an annual trip to Las Vegas and concentrating on doing well there rather than hoping for a trip to Las Vegas when probability suggests that it could take years to win the trip.

 

[FLICKit]

LOL, what are you saying, that this could not be possible in the APA?

I didn't say that. I asked has anyone else had this experience. His comments were so far outta whack, that it was very unlikely to be true.

Have YOU had that same kind of experience? If so, I'd be interested in hearing the details... If not, then I wouldn't be so quick to pick either side. Wouldn't recommend jumping to any conclusions before acquiring the details.

People can say anything as long as they stay vague (that system sucks, it's the worst of em all, that player is way underrated, I hate this game, it sucks...). The question is can your statements still hold water, when you get into the details.

Of course, some details you'll never know... Given that, you can only have a subjective opinion about those issues. In cases where things are that subjective, it's not worth ruffling feathers over. But in cases where you can back up your statements with an honest and provable dialogue, then that holds much more weight. I welcome hearing the evidence...

Some can't present any evidence, so they immediately respond with emotion and subjectivity... You have to weigh that evidence accordingly...

 

[FLICKit]

They're MUCH bigger. They've had as many as 9,000 players. Not only that but you don't need to win your region in order to play. All you need to do is sign-up and pay the entry. AND, like the APA, there's plenty going on. Multiple events AND a pro event at the same time. IMHO, I think one's time is better spent PLANNING on an annual trip to Las Vegas and concentrating on doing well there rather than hoping for a trip to Las Vegas when probability suggests that it could take years to win the trip.

9,000 is pretty big. That's why I said it's comparable to the APA national event. They get about 5,000 just for their 8-ball team event. Plus, they have 9-ball team event, doubles, triple play, mini-mania, and many other events at the same time as well.

Are you trying to turn this into a pissing contest???

There are plusses and minuses to both systems.

Some people like it better, when you know that you have to earn your way there. Others like the fact that they can buy their way. To each their own. In APA you have avenues for both. The team events are earn your way only. But they have plenty of other events that you can buy your way in.

Like I said, no need to get into a pissing contest, just looking at the positives of both...

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

The underlying problem with the APA, as much fun as it may be, is that you spend an incredible amount of time among beginners. That isn't to say that one shouldn't devote some of their time to improving the games of others but if you're serious about getting better, you'll need to concentrate on your own game.

When I was in the APA, I was an s/l 7 (8-ball) and went MONTHS without ever playing another 7. On top of that, I rarely played 7's in the post-season. Most of my matches were against players who were expected to lose, players the other team wanted to lose or players that were supposed to be underrated. Needless to say, it was an odd adventure every time. Most of my opponents didn't know how to play pool and even if they did, they didn't know anything about appropriate behaivor. They'd argue about ridiculous things, play ridiculous shots and in the end, lose and not know what happened. Occasionally, I'd get a gentleman who'd compliment me on my game but for the most part, I got a bunch of complainers.

In one match, I fouled by not hitting a solid. Prior to the ball rolling to a complete stop, I picked up the cue-ball and handed it to my opponent. It wasn't going to hit ANYTHING and I figured I'd just concede ball-in-hand. My opponent immediately said, "You can't do that." I replied, "Can't do what? Concede ball-in-hand? Or else what? It's a foul?" He immediately lost his temper but I couldn't help but point out how ridiculous he was being. I wasn't changing the lay-out of the table. Nothing was near the projected path of the cue-ball. By the time the match was over, I had won 5-0 and he literally started throwing the balls around bouncing them off the table and onto the floor and chucking a whiskey glass across the room. THIS over a picked-up cue-ball and the fact that I had ruined his chances of winning MVP that season.

Honestly, this is something I no longer deal with. Not only are the players in my league more polite and sober. They're better. Half of my time is spent playing people at my skill level and the rest is divided among players slightly above and slightly below. We don't need to win to go to qualify for Las Vegas. All we need to do is fill out the form and send it in. It's a better, more serious league that anyone who is interested in improving should consider. If you're in the New York City area, Amsterdam Billiards is holding registration today but you can sign up any time in the next week. The number is 212-496-8180 and you can PM me for more information.

 

[Koop]

Hey Jude,

I would be curious to know if any kind of survey has been done which compares the APA players to the BCA players. The league you are in sounds ideal and the thought of playing great competition night in and night out would be great.
I guess my question would be, is there something inherent in the BCA which makes it better than the APA with respect to fielding better players. I wish I was in NYC during the week because I can't find anything BCA related around here.

Thanks,
Koop

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

9,000 is pretty big. That's why I said it's comparable to the APA national event. They get about 5,000 just for their 8-ball team event. Plus, they have 9-ball team event, doubles, triple play, mini-mania, and many other events at the same time as well.

Are you trying to turn this into a pissing contest???

There are plusses and minuses to both systems.

Some people like it better, when you know that you have to earn your way there. Others like the fact that they can buy their way. To each their own. In APA you have avenues for both. The team events are earn your way only. But they have plenty of other events that you can buy your way in.

Like I said, no need to get into a pissing contest, just looking at the positives of both...

This isn't a pissing contest. This is raw truth. APA is APA, BCA is pool. When you go to the APA event, people are constantly asking about ranking and 90% of the people there would never consider playing outside the APA. In the BCA, you're looking at the best amateur 8-ball players on the planet with zero exception. The very best of the APA attend along with amateur champions from all over the continent. Canada always has a strong representation. I've been to both so I know how far the APA can piss. Trust me on this one, the BCA show will just floor you. There is a level of seriousness and legitimacy that the APA will simply never have. It's truly a championship: May the best player/team win. In the APA, all you hear about is how favorable handicaps led to victory. In the BCA, all that is hogwash. Play better and you'll win. That's it.

The APA is social. It's meant to be fun and entertaining and they use a huge prize-fund pyramid to keep teams interested. To qualify in New York, a team that has won a play-off spot must then win six matches in a row. In a coin-flip situation, that works out to 63:1 odds. Since they qualify 3 teams for Las Vegas annually, that means there's a 50/50 chance I'll go to Las Vegas in 20 years assuming I make the play-offs each and every time. If you're serious about wanting to go, why exclude yourself from what is an incredible gala? I mean, I'm not telling you to quit your APA team tomorrow and join up with the BCA. If anything, play in both but I'm telling you now, once you do go to the BCA event, you'll never think about the APA again.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Hey Jude,

I would be curious to know if any kind of survey has been done which compares the APA players to the BCA players. The league you are in sounds ideal and the thought of playing great competition night in and night out would be great.
I guess my question would be, is there something inherent in the BCA which makes it better than the APA with respect to fielding better players. I wish I was in NYC during the week because I can't find anything BCA related around here.

Thanks,
Koop

Well, there are draw-backs to the BCA on a local level. Unlike the APA, the BCA doesn't dictate how a local league should conduct itself so you're really at the whim of a league director. How one chooses to create a league will determine what you think of it week to week. However, once you get past that, the BCA Nationals is not handicapped and there are few restrictions as to how one may form a team. Any team with knowledge of what to expect in Las Vegas is always conscious of what is necessary to be successful there. Unlike the APA, they're not recruiting new players, they're recruiting experienced ones.

 

[Skess]

Well, there are draw-backs to the BCA on a local level. Unlike the APA, the BCA doesn't dictate how a local league should conduct itself so you're really at the whim of a league director. How one chooses to create a league will determine what you think of it week to week. However, once you get past that, the BCA Nationals is not handicapped and there are few restrictions as to how one may form a team. Any team with knowledge of what to expect in Las Vegas is always conscious of what is necessary to be successful there. Unlike the APA, they're not recruiting new players, they're recruiting experienced ones.

Jude,

So as I understand it, the BCA is more of a sanctioning body than an actual league. Under the umbrella of the BCA, a league op can run any type of league they choose to. Is that accurate?

I did some research on this some years back when I grew frustrated with the league options locally and could never really get a grasp of how a local BCA league translated to a National level event. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is how can different types of leagues with different rules and such all come together in one big National event.

I'd love to have your insight on this.


Thanks

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Jude,

So as I understand it, the BCA is more of a sanctioning body than an actual league. Under the umbrella of the BCA, a league op can run any type of league they choose to. Is that accurate?

I did some research on this some years back when I grew frustrated with the league options locally and could never really get a grasp of how a local BCA league translated to a National level event. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is how can different types of leagues with different rules and such all come together in one big National event.

I'd love to have your insight on this.


Thanks

It's an entirely different concept. Your right. It's not like the APA in the sense that they do not dictate how a local league should be run. In a way, the BCA's malleability may be its weakness but it's also its strength. It can be shaped into a women's only league, a golden citizen's league, a corporate league or a junior league and still offer a national championship to its competitors.

Really, the championships lays out its own rules and allows leagues a little flexibility in conforming to them but its assumed that your league director had that in mind when deciding on local format. There are no handicaps and rules are simply BCA 8-ball so there's little of the confusion typically seen at an APA event. All matches are round-robin, race to 13 (best of 25) with five players on each team. Teams are allowed to make one roster move during the match. The event is true double-elimination.