APA skill level review--advice wanted

[Roadking]

I have only been in APA for 5 weeks:

My rating have gone (initial) 4 -> 7 -> 3 -> 7 -> 5 -> 6. Who knows what I will be next week. Talking to others who have been in the game longer, I should be a 6.5 (if they gave out 0.5s); once I get my "self choke" mentality dealt with I should become a solid 7.

I find that hard to believe. Either your #'s are wrong or your L.O. Doesn't know what he's doing.
Once you move up you can never move down 2 skill levels.
So a 7 can never be a 5 or a 6 can never be a 4 again.
You would have had to had 3 B&R's the 1st week to move up to a 7 & then you still shouldn't have gone up to a 7 the 2nd week of your APA career.

 

[berko]

Just curious: Roughly how do the apa levels correlate with letter grades?

 

[Tony_in_MD]

As he said he has been in APA for 5 weeks. His handicap is based on only the results of 5 matches.

It will go up and down a lot until there is a larger set of matches to run the numbers against.

I find that hard to believe. Either your #'s are wrong or your L.O. Doesn't know what he's doing.
Once you move up you can never move down 2 skill levels.
So a 7 can never be a 5 or a 6 can never be a 4 again.
You would have had to had 3 B&R's the 1st week to move up to a 7 & then you still shouldn't have gone up to a 7 the 2nd week of your APA career.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Depends where you are from, and what the talent pool looks like in your division.

The APA ratings are not really nationalized.

Basically the top of the bunch in an APA region become 7's whether or not they can compete with 7's from another area depends upon the level of their competition.

This is the reason (IMHO) behind a lot of the perceived sandbagging at the national tourneys. You may be a big fish in a small pond but at the national level there are bigger fish that can eat you up.

Just curious: Roughly how do the apa levels correlate with letter grades?

 

[OneIron]

Depends where you are from, and what the talent pool looks like in your division.

The APA ratings are not really nationalized.

Basically the top of the bunch in an APA region become 7's whether or not they can compete with 7's from another area depends upon the level of their competition.

This is the reason (IMHO) behind a lot of the perceived sandbagging at the national tourneys. You may be a big fish in a small pond but at the national level there are bigger fish that can eat you up.

IMO, that's a big weakness in the APA "Equalizer" system. The handicaps don't match up well in Regionals or Nationals. Add to that the sandbagging factor and you have real issues. :frown:

 

[Bambu]

Just curious: Roughly how do the apa levels correlate with letter grades?

Cant really convert apa to letter rankings. Some 7's are legitimate B's or better, but more are still C's(around here anyway).

 

[Roadking]

As he said he has been in APA for 5 weeks. His handicap is based on only the results of 5 matches.

It will go up and down a lot until there is a larger set of matches to run the numbers against.

Your not gonna go from a 4 to a 7 & then back down to a 3 in your first 3 matches.
You can never move down 2 skill levels.
Once your a 7 you'll never be a 5 ever again just like once your a 5 you'll never be a 3 ever again.

 

[brokenarrowjbe]

If you are playing APA for anything other than funsies, you are going to be upset. My divorce lawyer once told me I was paying him to make reasonable requests to unreasonable people and I could either live with it or he could order up leather seats for the mercedes. I have been burned by three's that "have never made a shot like that" and then do it 5 or 6 times, I have left kick in banks for safeties and been stupefied when they made it and got position on the next ball. I then practice leaving better safeties and remembering they are only shooting cause I missed the shot or the safety. However, I have to admit if I am playing a higher rated player I take it more serious and if they try any kind of sharking behavior I make it my mission to win or make the win for them as hard as possible. I do however prefer to play straight up. I would rather get games on the wire. I also think a player losing by scratching should be noted as that is not really a skill the opponent can capitalize on. Good luck, but I think APA handicaps are like cell phone bills. John

 

[ctyhntr]

Observing my local league scene (8-ball and 9-ball), anyone who is a SL4 or below is probably D, SL5 D+, SL 6 D+,C, and SL7, C+ and higher.

Just curious: Roughly how do the apa levels correlate with letter grades?

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Well then how do you explain what his skill levels did?

Your not gonna go from a 4 to a 7 & then back down to a 3 in your first 3 matches.
You can never move down 2 skill levels.
Once your a 7 you'll never be a 5 ever again just like once your a 5 you'll never be a 3 ever again.

 

[Roadking]

I was wrong & I apologize.
I talked to my LO tonight & he said it is possible.
He said until you get 10 matches in your handicap can fluctuate like that.
But he also said personally he would have never made him a 7 after his second match.
But after you get 10 matches in,your handicap can never go down 2 skill levels again.
And again I apologize.

 

[rjb1168]

apa

Dishonest LO and whining players are causing this problem in most cases. If they made them go by the computer program and nothing else it would work much better. My 2 was playing a 3 in the session playoff and the 3 had a early 8. Then she scratched on the 8. We go to play the next match and they moved my 2 to a 3 so now we cant make 23. We complained but might as well talked to the wall.

 

[thrash attack]

Dishonest LO and whining players are causing this problem in most cases. If they made them go by the computer program and nothing else it would work much better. My 2 was playing a 3 in the session playoff and the 3 had a early 8. Then she scratched on the 8. We go to play the next match and they moved my 2 to a 3 so now we cant make 23. We complained but might as well talked to the wall.

It sounds like they went by the computer and it didn't go over too well.

 

[gunzby]

My advice is to stop trying to swim upstream.

My team had a girl who shot well as a 3. She went to the cities and plowed through a girl beating her in 9 ball 19-1. The girl went and complained to the desk and she was immediately moved up to a 4. What the whiny girl didn't say was that she gave her BiH 3-5 times per rack and I suppose the desk didn't notice that this girl also complained about 4 other ppl that day that she didn't even play.

Anyhow she was raised to a 4 in September. Fast forward to May and she had won a total of two matches since being moved up to a 4. I asked for her handicap to be moved back down with an explanation. Apparently the person reading those emails is a wall because I might as well of been talking to one.

This is my last session in APA as far as handicapped matches go. I'll be starting Masters in November and that will most likely be the only time I play APA anymore.

 

[OneIron]

This is my last session in APA as far as handicapped matches go. I'll be starting Masters in November and that will most likely be the only time I play APA anymore.

You've made a smart decision...

 

[MitchAlsup]

I find that hard to believe. Either your #'s are wrong or your L.O. Doesn't know what he's doing.
Once you move up you can never move down 2 skill levels.
So a 7 can never be a 5 or a 6 can never be a 4 again.
You would have had to had 3 B&R's the 1st week to move up to a 7 & then you still shouldn't have gone up to a 7 the 2nd week of your APA career.

Remembering that I have only been in the league for 5 weeks::

match 1 me:4; him:4 , result 3-0 me in 6 innings
match 2 me:7; him:5 , result 3-2 him in 20+ innings (I had to get to 4 before he got to 2)
match 3 me:3; him:5 , result 2-1 me in 7 innings
match 4 me:7; him:6 , result 4-4 him in 30+ innings with lots of safety play
Match 5 me:6; him:6 , result 4-5 him in 25+ inning match with lots of safety play (including an 8 inning string with only 2 balls on the table) I also had 4 opportunities to win that I blew.

 

[Maniac]

What the whiny girl didn't say was that she gave her BiH 3-5 times per rack and I suppose the desk didn't notice that this girl also complained about 4 other ppl that day that she didn't even play.
Like I've said before, there needs to be a box on the scoresheet to make a mark for each time a player receives a ball-in-hand, and that statistic needs to be figured in as far as handicapping goes.


This is my last session in APA as far as handicapped matches go. I'll be starting Masters in November and that will most likely be the only time I play APA anymore.
Unless your league requirements are different than mine, you will have to play in an APA handicapped league if you want to play more than one session in Masters.

I hope all turns out well for you and the others!!!

Maniac

 

[KMRUNOUT]

If your win/lose percentage is 50%................ doesn't mean that the handicap system is working perfectly ???

Kim

One would think so. That is why we are all so shocked. 50% Wins as a 3...sound like she was already at the right S/L.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Depends where you are from, and what the talent pool looks like in your division.

The APA ratings are not really nationalized.

Basically the top of the bunch in an APA region become 7's whether or not they can compete with 7's from another area depends upon the level of their competition.

This is the reason (IMHO) behind a lot of the perceived sandbagging at the national tourneys. You may be a big fish in a small pond but at the national level there are bigger fish that can eat you up.

This is incorrect. The criteria for being a 7 (or any skill level) is the same everywhere in the country. It goes by innings per game. However, your win % has an effect on what score you get if you shoot worse than your average. Thus a 7 playing in a week area will look stronger on paper than that same 7 in a strong area. However, if you take 2 7's from different areas who both have, say, 80% wins, and shoot the same innings, their score should be identical.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Update and some clarifications:

1) I should point out that my player has 100's of scores on her record. She has been in the league for many years.
2) She is well aware of the situation and does not feel she should be a 4.
3) My LO is a good guy. I really don't think threatening to take my money away is the right move.
4) The issue boils down to whether she was *correctly* raised *when* she was raised. She either was raised by the computer, in which case NO PROBLEM, or she was manually raised. Someone didn't have all the info if they thought she should be a 4. They made a decision based on insufficient data. I'm SURE there are guidelines within APA corporate for how and when to manually raise a player. I want to know if those guidelines have been followed.

Update:
My LO suggested some options:
1) We can drop/add players any time during the session to restore our flexibility in our lineup.
2) He can *not* impose a local lock on her S/L, which will at least allow her to play as a 3 in regular season play.
3) He offered to let our team split into 2 teams of 4, and both teams would be qualified for the LTC (States).

Option 3 is just what the APA would love. It is 180 degrees against what we are about. I like my team, and we all like to play together. As a consequence, we are successful even playing our best every time. I have become very good at matching my players up, and determining who they are likely to beat given their skill set. We take pride in being able to do well without cheating or sangbagging in any way. Every single member of the team has moved up over the past several sessions. In MANY of those cases the people play very weak for their new skill level. However we have never once questioned skill levels because they were always *somewhat* believable. Until now!

Option 2 at least allows my player to enjoy the majority of her APA poolplaying. I am all for her being a 4 if the scores warrant that. In fact, I would encourage her and offer her any assistance she needs in getting solid at that new skill level. I just wish she earned it, rather than having it imposed on her the way it has been.

At least if we can add a few players, we can still function as a team. I believe my LO wants to help, and is saddened by the situation. None the less, I wish he was owning it a bit more.

Anyway, thanks again for all the replies.

KMRUNOUT