That's some funky APA division you're playing in. The APA rules don't permit SL2's for males, only ladies. The lowest males can be is SL3.
APA skill ranking?
- Thread starter Hail Mary Shot
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That's some funky APA division you're playing in. The APA rules don't permit SL2's for males, only ladies. The lowest males can be is SL3.
Ken...I would if I thought you weren't dead serious...which I do. The pool world is unfortunately too full of cheaters...from the head of the WPA, all the way down to lowly APA league players (out to cheat the system...because they can). Just a sad state of affairs, if you ask me...and no wonder pro pool players will likely never be able to make a decent living (as a group anyway). Your W.C. Fields quote says it all! Not pointing fingers strictly at you...but geez, quit glorifying it!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Funky is a very polite way to put it
Here's a link to my leagues website. If you scan some rosters, you can find a few guys that are ranked 2's. Feel free to shoot a nasty-gram to the L.O.
Man, it drives me nuts when someone claims the "only" reason that they lost was because the other guy "sandbagged". So, the only reason why you lost is the guy "sandbagged"? Like you didn't like miss a shot or two, or maybe missed shape? When the pressure was on did he make more shots than you did? In my opinion, a person that builds their game on their ability to "sandbag" tends to collapse like a house of cards when they have the control of the game is taken from them. The only way he sandbags to a victory is you did not recognize what you were up against and failed to changed your game to meet the new challenge.
What's so lowly about APA league players? Keep in mind these lowly players spend much more money than the high and mighty champions on average. These aren't your tap water and popcorn players.
Choose your words more carefully. Without the APA league players you'd really see how sad the state of affairs is.
I think he was referring to sandbaggers in the APA, not APA members in general.
Unfortunately for the APA, which is a very begginer freindly league, the "angry little people" I mentioned earlier in this thread are prevelant in the APA, for no other reason it seems than there are "easy pickings".
Funky is a very polite way to put it
Here's a link to my leagues website. If you scan some rosters, you can find a few guys that are ranked 2's. Feel free to shoot a nasty-gram to the L.O.
Well, if that is a league I were playing in, I might just do that. Your LO doesn't give a hoot about me, and why should he? It's you and his players that he should care about.
Sounds to me like this LO doesn't really care, if he's blatantly disregarding the national League rules. If you really wanted to make an issue of it, I believe the APA HQ is where you shoudl start. Though it seems like an uphill battle. Too bad that's what you folks have to endure. I wonder if any of your teams actually go to Vegas, and if they do, what does he do about teams with male SL2's? It would seem that they would be disqualified from the beginning, and shouldn't even be allowed to participate. But that's just my opinion...
It's LO's like that who give AP a bad name. Them, all sandbaggers, and the sandbaggers these LO's allow/promote/encourage. Once again, not the fault of the APA, but the people who play in it. Sad.
The hell...? How is that even possible? Especially because I thought guys couldn't be 2's
Man in my league, you see some strange things. This doesn't really bother me. I'm there to have fun, shoot pool and drink beer. In that order.
Man this is crazy! I never knew there was this much $hit that went on with apa. In my area we don't really have any sandbaggers and if we did we would just beat them up in the parking lot after league was over. J/K anyway I'm sorry that you guys have to deal with this and I guess I consider myself lucky that I don't.
mikeyfrost...You misunderstood me. What I mean is that the APA league players are generally at the bottom of the "food chain" in the pool hierarchy, going all the way to the top (WPA board president). I'm one of the few people here who champion the APA day in and day out (and anyone who knows me knows that). I was also a successful APA league operator for four years.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
First of all, regardless of what the guy said, there are NO male 2's in the APA (except possibly in 9-ball). The software program does not allow it. Even if the local L.O. was "jury-rigging" the local s/l's, he would get caught when he sends in his weekly player data disk to the APA national office.
Second, sandbagging is nowhere near as rampant as several posters here suggest, regardless of their personal observations. The APA is what it is...a beginner's pool league, designed to constantly bring in new players. The fact that their US numbers have been flat for several years suggests that there needs to be some changes in the system...but I personally don't think it is with the way handicaps are derived.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Second, sandbagging is nowhere near as rampant as several posters here suggest, regardless of their personal observations. The APA is what it is...a beginner's pool league, designed to constantly bring in new players. The fact that their US numbers have been flat for several years suggests that there needs to be some changes in the system...but I personally don't think it is with the way handicaps are derived.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
I couldn't find it in print to post here, but I'm quite certain that males in APA will only be SL3 to SL7 (for 8-ball) while females can be SL2 to SL7. There cannot be male SL2's, in any sort of sanctioned APA league play.
Your LO's are playing with the rules.
You are wrong. The male minimum skill levels are for higher level play. The League Operator can allow male SL2s in local league play.
From page 85 of the team manual:
"9. NO MALE 1s ALLOWED IN 9-BALL AND NO MALE 2s ALLOWED IN 8-BALL
During the National Level of 9-Ball Team Championship play, men will
participate at a minimum skill level of 2. During the National Level of 8-Ball
Team Championship play, men will participate at a minimum skill level of 3."
There also a mention of male SL2 8-ball players in the section regarding lowest attainable ratings on pages 32 - 33:
"27. NATIONAL LOWEST ATTAINABLE RULE
In general, players who have participated in a National Singles or National
TeamChampionship on the National Level will have their lowest attainables
raised to the highest exit skill level they attained during any one of these
championships. The APA maintains a permanent record of players who have
participated in Regional and National events. Some exceptions may be made,
but only if Local League Management specifically appeals an individual’s
lowest attainable. Those appeals properly justified will be granted. The only
standard exception would be former male SL2s who were automatically raised
to SL3s as described in the Higher Level Tournament Section. In that
instance, Local League Management only needs to submit the appeal; no
justification would be necessary.
theycallmerock
Registered
Yep. One of the APA leagues I was in allowed male S/L 2s only during the regular session and division playoffs, but bumped the male 2s to 3s for HLT play. I dont see why you just play them as 3s throughout. I guess for those males who play below a 3 level, it does make it more competitive and fun for them playing as a 2 during the regular session to even out races a little bit.
I had a guy on my team, a new player who wet about 1-30 for his first 3 seasons. Probably if my LO allowed males to be 2's (this was 8 ball) he would have had something more like 1-9, 2-8, 4-6 for the first 3 seasons. Luckily he wasn't one to give up and kept chugging along, eventually becoming a strong 3/weak 4. In my opinion for players like that not allowing them to compete as 2's locally does a great disservice to the mission of the APA, which is to encourage people to play pool (oh yeah and to make money
. I don't see why they limit it nationally either, I can imagine, that someone, somewhere probably did it for the same reason men start as 4's and women start as 3's. But really if a guy is a legit 2, why make him play as a 3?As long as I'm posting I'll refer a bit to the post about how the 7 and 9 SL brackets are somewhat ridiculous. I'm a 7 in 8 ball and I have virtually no hope of ever getting to vegas as a single (regardless of what the APA says about the equalizer system leveling out the playing field). Our regional here consists of the Bronx/Manhattan/Brooklyn/Queens/Suffolk/Nassau county leagues. Generally there is one 16 player 7 board (ie 1 7 will go to vegas). Jason Kane has won either the october or march regional 7 board every year for 9 (or maybe 10 now) straight years. It's a bit silly that 50% of all the vegas seats available to all the 7's wishing to go to vegas in the entire NYC area go to one person who is markedly better than almost every other 7 in the 6 league areas involved. It's not something that stops me from trying - but when you have two players, playing an even race to 5 and in reality in any sane money game/real tour the spot might be 5 on 10 or 5 on 11 between them, then the APA match is heavily and unfairly tilted one way. In every other SL bracket (aside from someone who is not properly handicapped) you have much more of a toss up in any given match.
theycallmerock
Registered
I had a guy on my team, a new player who wet about 1-30 for his first 3 seasons. Probably if my LO allowed males to be 2's (this was 8 ball) he would have had something more like 1-9, 2-8, 4-6 for the first 3 seasons. Luckily he wasn't one to give up and kept chugging along, eventually becoming a strong 3/weak 4. In my opinion for players like that not allowing them to compete as 2's locally does a great disservice to the mission of the APA, which is to encourage people to play pool (oh yeah and to make money
As long as I'm posting I'll refer a bit to the post about how the 7 and 9 SL brackets are somewhat ridiculous. I'm a 7 in 8 ball and I have virtually no hope of ever getting to vegas as a single (regardless of what the APA says about the equalizer system leveling out the playing field). Our regional here consists of the Bronx/Manhattan/Brooklyn/Queens/Suffolk/Nassau county leagues. Generally there is one 16 player 7 board (ie 1 7 will go to vegas). Jason Kane has won either the october or march regional 7 board every year for 9 (or maybe 10 now) straight years. It's a bit silly that 50% of all the vegas seats available to all the 7's wishing to go to vegas in the entire NYC area go to one person who is markedly better than almost every other 7 in the 6 league areas involved. It's not something that stops me from trying - but when you have two players, playing an even race to 5 and in reality in any sane money game/real tour the spot might be 5 on 10 or 5 on 11 between them, then the APA match is heavily and unfairly tilted one way. In every other SL bracket (aside from someone who is not properly handicapped) you have much more of a toss up in any given match.
The biggest complaint I hear people say year after year in Vegas for APA is that at S/L 7 there is more of a disparity between players than at any other S/L and that there should be a S/L 8. I know most of the local non-APA sponsored tournaments I play in (but with APA rules and handicapped) force some 7s to play as 8s.
delmari001
Registered
How do I know what my rating is if I've never played apa 9 ball? The reason I ask is b/c I played in a local tourney 3 wknds ago and director asked me my rating. I'm a new 8-ball player w/ a 3 skill level. He says he'll keep me in at that level. So, during matches I play my usual game. Take shots that I know I can make. If I am uncertain, I play safe. So, during one match against a 7 he tells me that I play better than their average 3's. I say okay, I don't have a problem with you raising me to be fair. He asks again what I'm rated. I tell him a 3 in 8 ball. Sure I can play defense or slop in the 9 but I am rated a 3. Local players are crying about losing to me. I have to tell him that one guy left scratched on the 7 twice and left me a combo for the win. I had to tell him about all my matches. Was really upsetting. So, he and his friends talk about it and he comes back and says he's making me an 8. An 8! I can't run more than 4 balls and I have to play as an 8. Whatever, I accept the challenge. After cooling down, I continue my match. Same play style. If I have the shot, I go for it. If not then I play safe. I lose my match 7-7 against a 7. I lose my next match too. Guy ran first two racks, scratches on the 8 next game. I get that one. Oh yeah, it's a 6-3 race. I dry break and he runs out. I lose 3-1. I stick around to watch the finals and people are asking me my rating. I tell them about being raised and they ask why I had to play the last guy a 6-3 race when he was a 7. So now I ask the director what's up with that. He says he raised me again. So effectively, he made me an 11 to give his buddy (the 7) a 6-3 race against me. WTF!!! I ask him, if I don't have a shot am I supposed to try to slop some crap in or play the safe? I remind him that this is a tourney and I'm not trying to give my money away and that it's not fair that he did me like that. How do I remedy this situation. Nice pool hall but really feelings towards tournaments there now.