Apa

I don't have a whole lot of experience with APA leagues. They were played in my local pool hall that hung out in. I was there every day, and the league was there once a week.

I got a team together one year with a few friends and we were division champs the first year out. We didn't take it very seriously and while it was at times fun, it was for the most part a big waste of time.

I understand that ball bangers find it fun and entertaining and more power to 'em. To me it as an overall waste and we never played in it again. I spent more time playing against low lifes and drug users than I ever cared to. I match up against the guys I'd like to spend time enjoying more leisure time with. I hate playing losers and whiners and I really hated sitting around all night long just to play 1 match.
 
I agree that the APA doesnt promote pool in any way. Good pool anyways.

If they did, why are there people that have shot APA for 15-20 years that are still SL3's?

You have to take that league for what it is worth. You'll have your group of guys that you get along with, maybe another team or two you enjoy shooting against, and the rest of the time, you go in, shoot and leave.

Its good to see PocketPoint (runningracks) back on the forums though!:grin:
 
runningracks said:
Are you kidding, here we go again with the "have fun" theme.

The reason people have a poor attitude towards APA is that APA has led to the downfall of the pool industry. It isn't even that hard to figure out.

Here, I'll spell it out for you in simple terms.....

1. No one in APA ever learns about the history of pool, it's pro players, or it's past great players.

2. As a result, major tournaments go by without anyone knowing they even took place.

3. Because nobody knows knows the pros are anymore, cable TV networks have cancelled the tournaments. Also, tournament prize money has been lowered.

4. Because there is no money in pool, many "great" players quit. Maybe they go to poker, or decide to start a family.

5. Young people don't even consider pool because nobody plays it, and they have no way of being exposed to it.

6. Since the great players are quitting, and the young people are off doing something else, the pool room has no patrons.

7. Your pool room has an APA league, but since these guys just play in their leagues, the room has to close.

8. The APA league is moved to a bar, the pool room isn't necessary anyway.

There you go!
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1. You don't need to know the history or who pro players are to enjoy playing pool. Most pool players couldn't tell you who Greenleaf was, or who (fill in you favorite custom cue maker here) is. I know guys playing in the pool room and gambling 20 30 yrs ago who couldn't tell you who Strickland or Archer or Segal are.

2. APA sponsors womens professional pool. The fact that people don't know about major tournaments is more due to lack of sponsorship and lack of interest by the general public. I don't recall any tournaments televised or talked about when I was a kid. Wide World of sports Fat's Willie exebition in the only pool I remember seeing or hearing about. Leagues increase awareness of tournaments because eventually those players who have desire develope out of the league and look for something bigger. Most don't

3. See answer 2 Leagues aren't the cause of this

4. How is it the league's fault that there is "no money in pool"? Every league has some sort of pay out or opportunity to win money through participation.

5. The young people I see in the moose club and the pool room would give you a run for your money. Some of the best pool I've seen live was a 15 yr old at a tournament DannyB78 ran in Cambridge. Brandon Shuff posts here, and he'd probably have to spot you.

6.Same as 5 no new point, just fluff

7.Leagues keep rooms open. Don't believe it? Post a poll in the room owners section and see what they say

8 APA is played in pool rooms, bars and social clubs. If there is a table the league will play there.


Welcome to the forum


:cool:
 
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runningracks said:
Sure, leagues keep the rooms open. But why are the rooms struggling in the first place? Because of the leagues. They've driven out everything good in pool that makes people want to play and become better.
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You've managed to hang on almost 24 hours, pretty good for you lately.

Did you ever think that there aren't even a remotely close number of "real" pool players that would frequent these rooms, if you had your way and the leagues magically disappeared? Let alone would those "real" players buy anything to eat or drink, comparable to we, the unwashed masses that play league?

How do you propose that these rooms stay open, in 2012? The "real" player ain't gonna cover the rent.
 
runningracks said:
The answer lies in what you said. The leagues have swallowed up the next group of "real" players.

There are a large number of league players that could have the potential to turn themselves into dedicated pool players, but being stuck in the leagues, they will never have the chance.

Think of it like a child stuck in the city school system. He might have had the potential to do great things, but the city schools don't give him the chance. He never reaches his potential. A few city kids get lucky and attend school in the suburbs, so they stand a better chance.
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Ah, the system is holding the game down. Damn the man, keeping us down.

I will admit that this response from you is the most reasoned (and reasonable) you've ever had, good on you.

Assuming for a moment that you are correct in this, for the sake of argument....how would you propose putting that genie back into the bottle? And manage to keep the rooms open?
 
I'm away from home for work right now, and I've played in 2 pool rooms down here in NC. On The Snap in Fuquay, and Hot Shots in Cary.

On The Snap has 10 9' diamond pro/ams. Monday night they were reall crowded, had to park on a side street. The had one table open, the rest were all being used by the APA. It was the city tourney, and the place was packed, but only a couple of the tables were being used by the tourney. The tables were in excellent condition and the price was very reasonable. I was there again tonight and they had leagues going and again I got the only available table. Had a club sadwich while I was there that was really good.

I was at Hot Shots on Tuesday night. They have 11 or 12 gold crowns with drop pockets. They were busy with APA league, and had 2 available tables. The table I played on was in nice condition, it rolled straight, the rails were crisp, and the cloth was worn but in good shape.

League is keeping these plcaes in business.

:cool:
 
runningracks said:
What factors have made it so that the leagues are keeping these rooms in business? Why don't the regular players keep the rooms in business anymore?
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Because they don't come out and play regularly, in large numbers. And then they don't buy food and drinks when they are there. League players are there to "have fun", and people out to have fun usually buy food and drinks.

(Obviously I'm painting with the broad brush the Pocket Point uses while describing league players. I realize that many "real" pool players support rooms by buying food and drinks, my point is that there have been many examples of the serious player not doing so, spoken of regularly here on AZB.)
 
runningracks said:
What factors have made it so that the leagues are keeping these rooms in business? Why don't the regular players keep the rooms in business anymore?
Click to expand...

I would call "regular players" people who go out and play pool at their local pool room once a week or more. Demographics change with time. People are more likely to sit on their ass and tweet about the latest cup of coffee they got at starbucks, or soliciting folks to help on their virtual farm or surfing porn, or being so involved in evercrack that they're peeing in a bottle so they don't miss anything.

Technology and societal changes influenced by technology have done more to change the face of pool than the leagues have. At least leagues inspire people who wouldn't otherwise pick up a cue to do so and learn the game.

Everyone doesn't want to be or cannot be a world beater. Because someone has less than an a game deosn't mean they aren't serious or dedicated, they just have reached their potential. Shouldn't their money be just as good as the hustler to keep the doors open? I'd venture they are more important than the hustler in the life of a pool room. I've never heard a league player complain about a glass of water.

League players go to the pool room to spend money. Hustlers go to the pool room to take money out of the door. The less the spend the more they take with them when they leave. That's what's killing pool.

:cool:
 
runningracks said:
What factors have made it so that the leagues are keeping these rooms in business? Why don't the regular players keep the rooms in business anymore?
Click to expand...

heres my .02 for what its worth.

my g f worked in a pool hall that just closed last month. i hung out there quite a bit and helped occasionaly.

most pool players fall into 5 categories from what i observed and from what my gf told me on how much customers spent and how well they tipped.

1. recreational players. a couple out for a night where one of them likes pool and introducing the other to the game. sometimes 2 couples together. its a fun night out and they spend money having fun. they tip decent.

2. recreational league player. again a fun night out with the team.they spend money having fun. they tip good.

3. serious league player. they play 2 or more times a week. the more nights they play the more money a week they spend. they tip decent.

4. regular pool players. come in usualy 2 nights a week. usualy practice on their game by theirself, sometime match up with another regular. hardly ever buy anything except a coffee or water , usualy no more than 1. lousy tippers.

5. gamblers. they look to take money, not spend money. never buy anything . never play each other, just sit around talking shit waiting to lock up a sucker, preferably an apa 3 or less. the only tip they know is the one on the end of their cue.

i know that not all players fit in one of those categories but the majority i have met do.

i was a bar banger most of my life until a joined a league a few years ago. now i currently play on 6 different teams. 3 apa, 2 money teams,1 napa team. i spend on average 100.00.a week for food, drinks and table time. thats not counting team fees. thats 100.00 a week those pool halls would not be getting if i was not playing league.

i can name 30 people in my apa division off the top of my head that play league more than 3 times a week. i am sure i could find a lot more if i looked up the rosters on our local apa website.

runningracks, do you think these pool halls could survive if all these league players quit playing.

btw which category do you fit in above ?
 
Please see red text

runningracks said:
LeagueGuy said:
Are you kidding, here we go again with the "have fun" theme.

The reason people have a poor attitude towards APA is that APA has led to the downfall of the pool industry. Please provide stats or concrete evidence It isn't even that hard to figure out.

Here, I'll spell it out for you in simple terms.....

1. No one in APA ever learns about the history of pool, it's pro players, or it's past great players.That's like saying all fire engines are red

2. As a result, major tournaments go by without anyone knowing they even took place. Again provide proof

3. Because nobody knows knows the pros are anymore, cable TV networks have cancelled the tournaments. Also, tournament prize money has been lowered.This is because of the APA how?

4. Because there is no money in pool, many "great" players quit. Maybe they go to poker, or decide to start a family.This is because of the APA how?

5. Young people don't even consider pool because nobody plays it, and they have no way of being exposed to it.This is because of the APA how?

6. Since the great players are quitting, and the young people are off doing something else, the pool room has no patrons.This is because of the APA how?

7. Your pool room has an APA league, but since these guys just play in their leagues, the room has to close. The owners business practices have nothing to do with this at all right?

8. The APA league is moved to a bar, the pool room isn't necessary anyway. This is because of the APA how?

There you go!
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Click to expand...
 
forthe$ said:
League play will slow your progression. If you don't care about getting better, but having a few laughs for minimal return then game on.

The OP is correct, the only winners are the LO and APA, players just put up the cash.
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If a person always plays to win, how would league play slow his progression? I don't see the connection.
 
Somehow people have gotten the idea that "playing to have fun" and "playing to improve your game" are mutually exclusive. I've been playing pool since I was 8, so 25 years now, with about a 7 year dry spell of occasional play. Call it ten years of serious play, and then the last 5 years have been serious again. I've been playing in an APA league for the last two and a half years.

In the last two and a half years, I've played an average of three nights per week, which is at least one night per week more than I was "playing seriously" before. Right now I play four nights and am looking to start up a fifth night in October. I've been having a great time, meeting new people, and making good friends that I think I'm going to keep for a long time.

When I started playing league, one of the better players on my first team started helping me improve my game, from stance and stroke to strategy and runouts. I've gone from miscues and mistakes to positional and strategic play, due mainly to the fact that I pay attention when everybody else plays so I can find what works and what doesn't. I've taken lessons, bought books, watched videos, read forums and columns, ad nauseum. I started as a 4/4 in the APA, and am now a 6/7. I'd call that pretty good progress for two years with a deployment in the middle and a full time job.

Let me reiterate two of my previous statements:
"I've been having a great time, meeting new people, and making good friends that I think I'm going to keep for a long time."
"I've gone from miscues and mistakes to positional and strategic play...."

I don't have to stop being a social animal to become a better pool player, and I don't have to stop improving at the game to have a good time doing it. I don't understand the people who think having fun is anathema to having discipline in the game. I pity them.

Later.
 
Interestingly enough, i did not make that post.
Why would you copy my name and attach it to a post i did not make.

My post is above. If you want to respond to me go ahead, but please don't copy my name and attach it to someone else's post

Thanks.

Leagueguy


Please see red text

runningracks said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeagueGuy

Are you kidding, here we go again with the "have fun" theme.

The reason people have a poor attitude towards APA is that APA has led to the downfall of the pool industry. Please provide stats or concrete evidence It isn't even that hard to figure out.

Here, I'll spell it out for you in simple terms.....

1. No one in APA ever learns about the history of pool, it's pro players, or it's past great players.That's like saying all fire engines are red

2. As a result, major tournaments go by without anyone knowing they even took place. Again provide proof

3. Because nobody knows knows the pros are anymore, cable TV networks have cancelled the tournaments. Also, tournament prize money has been lowered.This is because of the APA how?

4. Because there is no money in pool, many "great" players quit. Maybe they go to poker, or decide to start a family.This is because of the APA how?

5. Young people don't even consider pool because nobody plays it, and they have no way of being exposed to it.This is because of the APA how?

6. Since the great players are quitting, and the young people are off doing something else, the pool room has no patrons.This is because of the APA how?

7. Your pool room has an APA league, but since these guys just play in their leagues, the room has to close. The owners business practices have nothing to do with this at all right?

8. The APA league is moved to a bar, the pool room isn't necessary anyway. This is because of the APA how?

There you go!
Click to expand...
 
LeagueGuy said:
Interestingly enough, i did not make that post.
Why would you copy my name and attach it to a post i did not make.

My post is above. If you want to respond to me go ahead, but please don't copy my name and attach it to someone else's post

Thanks.

Leagueguy
Click to expand...

How bizarre..... sorry
 
Players

lorider said:
heres my .02 for what its worth.

my g f worked in a pool hall that just closed last month. i hung out there quite a bit and helped occasionaly.

most pool players fall into 5 categories from what i observed and from what my gf told me on how much customers spent and how well they tipped.

1. recreational players. a couple out for a night where one of them likes pool and introducing the other to the game. sometimes 2 couples together. its a fun night out and they spend money having fun. they tip decent.

2. recreational league player. again a fun night out with the team.they spend money having fun. they tip good.

3. serious league player. they play 2 or more times a week. the more nights they play the more money a week they spend. they tip decent.

4. regular pool players. come in usualy 2 nights a week. usualy practice on their game by theirself, sometime match up with another regular. hardly ever buy anything except a coffee or water , usualy no more than 1. lousy tippers.

5. gamblers. they look to take money, not spend money. never buy anything . never play each other, just sit around talking shit waiting to lock up a sucker, preferably an apa 3 or less. the only tip they know is the one on the end of their cue.

i know that not all players fit in one of those categories but the majority i have met do.

i was a bar banger most of my life until a joined a league a few years ago. now i currently play on 6 different teams. 3 apa, 2 money teams,1 napa team. i spend on average 100.00.a week for food, drinks and table time. thats not counting team fees. thats 100.00 a week those pool halls would not be getting if i was not playing league.

i can name 30 people in my apa division off the top of my head that play league more than 3 times a week. i am sure i could find a lot more if i looked up the rosters on our local apa website.

runningracks, do you think these pool halls could survive if all these league players quit playing.

btw which category do you fit in above ?
Click to expand...


That's pretty darn close, IMO. The only thing I would add is that there are some regular, twice a week, players who DO spend money on food, etc. Other than that, I think just about everyone fits in that list somewhere. A good poolroom needs all of those groups, by the way, to survive and develop it's character, and I wouldn't say one was better than the other- just different people with different ideas on how to enjoy the game at different levels. The gamblers trash the league players, but in most cases it's the league players that are providing a place for them to play.
 
shootergirl...You should start your own thread about your league, rather than attempting to put down the APA. It is good for what it provides. No doubt your league offers some benefits as well (all leagues have their pros and cons). Focus on the positives, and leave the negative, comparative comments out.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

msthang32 said:
I am the League operator for NAPA. A new league that is nothing like APA in how it's run. If you would like to know more, contact me at shootergirl32@gmail.com or check out napaleagues.com
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Quote I am the League operator for NAPA. A new league that is nothing like APA in how it's run. If you would like to know more, contact me at shootergirl32@gmail.com or check out napaleagues.com


From what I see this is your second post on these forums. The first one was about the same thing. Just a heads up, I think people around here would like to hear what you have to offer but they also don't like people coming on here with on ads fortheir leagues or merchandise. Stick around a little chat about some things and onceyou are established let people know about your product. Otherwise it looks just like you are using it.
 
APA Play with your heart!

I've played in the APA for over 25 years now. I play every match like its as exciting as my first one. Ignore the handicap system and enjoy the weekly match as if your on TV! Win or lose . . . ENJOY IT! Even when you get destoyed. It all builds character.
 
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