Archer's View on Diamond tables

Longevity

whatsupsport said:
Sorry to say this, but Diamond tables suck. I go to my local pool hall and spend a brunch of my well earned dollards and leave pissed off. Pockets don't accept balls, rails bounce like they were made out of super balls. Pockets mark up the balls. The rail system, or return box is dumb. You can start your day with clean balls and in 15 minutes the balls are dirty. How or who cleans them out (NO ONE). Hell, it don't even sound like pool when the balls go into a pocket. I got to pretty much craw on the floor to get the balls out of the ball return. This is a real problem for older players.


I've been watching tons of tourny's and streams and I really haven't seen many racks strung together. (Break and runs) I think the most racks strung together I've seen on Diamonds has been maybe 3. Wonder why that is, I don't think it's because the players aren't great.

It's not the cloth, it's not the cues, it's not the chalk, it's not the balls. For me I'm left with only one conclusion, it' the Diamond tables.

I'm a older guy and maybe a little cranky but I'm no purest. I do miss the old days when pool was pool. I don't care what level you play at you want to run balls and racks.
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Lots of great posts for two great tables. The GC and the Diamond. Hell I love both. I think the true test will be these Diamonds and how they play and last 40 years from now!!! GC's have stood the test of time. I'll be gone by then but some of you boys may still be hitting balls. Anyway it shakes out a fellow still needs to go hit some balls to ever go anywhere in this great game.
 
Mr. Wiggles said:
Lots of great posts for two great tables. The GC and the Diamond. Hell I love both. I think the true test will be these Diamonds and how they play and last 40 years from now!!! GC's have stood the test of time. I'll be gone by then but some of you boys may still be hitting balls. Anyway it shakes out a fellow still needs to go hit some balls to ever go anywhere in this great game.
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Old thread, but what the hell. Sure, Gold Crowns have been around for a long time and some even play fine - but only after being restored and/or repaired. Look, crawl underneath of a Gold Crown and then a Diamond Pro table and then tell me which one would you like to be underneath during an earthquake. Hint Hint, Diamonds are forever...
 
The pool hall i used to play at had a gold crown and a diamond right next to each other and everyone that says that diamonds skid are right, it did but i still played on the diamond more i just liked the diamond more for some reason really couldnt tell you why.
 
Hustlehard said:
The pool hall i used to play at had a gold crown and a diamond right next to each other and everyone that says that diamonds skid are right, it did but i still played on the diamond more i just liked the diamond more for some reason really couldnt tell you why.
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What does that mean? Also, you must have been the one of the few with some sense in that pool room, as you chose the superior table.

Cheers...
 
the majority of serious players I've dealt with prefer GC's to Diamonds

however, installation is paramount and the Brunswick dealer network offers easier access to a greater number of experienced installers, a far greater number even though the Diamond is of far higher quality
 
jalapus logan said:
What does that mean? Also, you must have been the one of the few with some sense in that pool room, as you chose the superior table.

Cheers...
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I guess it means before i ever played on a diamond i heard that so when i played on one turns out they werent lying.
 
smashmouth said:
the majority of serious players I've dealt with prefer GC's to Diamonds. however, installation is paramount and the Brunswick dealer network offers easier access to a greater number of experienced installers, a far greater number even though the Diamond is of far higher quality
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Do you think the fact that most serious players today were raised on GC's have anything to do with it? Wait a generation and ask the same question!

Lyn
 
cardiac kid said:
Do you think the fact that most serious players today were raised on GC's have anything to do with it? Wait a generation and ask the same question!

Lyn
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This is true. I'm 33 and I grew up playing on Diamonds (KY/So. IN is essentially the birthplace of Diamond Billiards) and the vast majority of serious players here prefer Diamonds to GC's. Hell, even my retired pool buddy traded in his GC for a Diamond Pro and never looked back. He is a fastidious collector of many things and will not accept second best of anything. He waxes poetic about his mahogony Diamond. Also, another friend of mine (and avid player) just traded in his Brunswick for a Diamond Pro as well.
 
Hustlehard said:
I guess it means before i ever played on a diamond i heard that so when i played on one turns out they werent lying.
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If you are suggesting that balls skid more on a Diamond table than a Brunswick, then you are apparently not familiar with Newtonian physics. How can, for instance, Simonis 860 placed on the slate bed of either table produce different skidding results? Makes no sense and has not been my experience on either table. Seriously, same rock, same cloth, different results??? I don't think so, at least not as far as skidding is concerned.
 
jay helfert said:
By the way, I LOVE my Diamond table! I will never trade it for anything else. I also happen to like the new Gold Crowns. To me it's like the difference between a Lincoln and a Caddy, both good cars. Compared with what else is out there, I'd prefer one of these two tables.
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I couldn't agree with you more and I'd be thrilled with a new Diamond or a GC in my home. I've played a lot more on GC tables mainly because there aren't any Diamond tables available in my area to play on. When I go to the US Open and visit Qmasters pool room I always play on a Diamond table for a while, but I soon get frustrated because I don't play as well on the Diamond. The only reason I don't play as well is i'm just not used to the way Diamond tables play. I can get a set of balls and play on a GC and i'm right at home because i'm used to the way the GC's play and if I could get some playing time on a Diamond i'd be just as comfortable. Like Jay said they are both good tables and i'd be thrilled to own either one of them. My first choice would be a Diamond if I had to pick between the 2.........

James
 
SCCues said:
I couldn't agree with you more and I'd be thrilled with a new Diamond or a GC in my home. I've played a lot more on GC tables mainly because there aren't any Diamond tables available in my area to play on. When I go to the US Open and visit Qmasters pool room I always play on a Diamond table for a while, but I soon get frustrated because I don't play as well on the Diamond. The only reason I don't play as well is i'm just not used to the way Diamond tables play. I can get a set of balls and play on a GC and i'm right at home because i'm used to the way the GC's play and if I could get some playing time on a Diamond i'd be just as comfortable. Like Jay said they are both good tables and i'd be thrilled to own either one of them. My first choice would be a Diamond if I had to pick between the 2.........

James
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Being comfortable goes a long way toward playing well. When I play on a Gold Crown, I tend to be able to run out with greater frequency. I think that this is because the Diamond pockets' deep shelf and pocket cut provides a more demanding playing experience. The GC's that I have played on (I've never played on a GC 5, so I can't comment on that one) tend to be more forgiving of less precisely hit balls. On my Diamond, if you don't put it in the heart of the pocket, it doesn't fall. One can graze the side rail on many GC's and the ball will fall in anyway. It leads to that "can't miss" feeling...
 
I have dvd matches of US Opens from the early 80's with Earl Strickland, and Buddy Hall and Dave Bollman all complaining about balls skidding on the pristine Gold Crowns they were playing on at the time... (pre 860 days)

IMHO & experience ball skidding is more common on cloth that is fast like the 860 that is on Diamonds, vs. the canvas/shag carpet that is often found on Gold Crowns...

I have also seen ball skidding occur frequently on highly worn/used cloth... again 860 gets shinny spots pretty darn fast as does the apparent 860 knockoff known as SpeedCloth...

I also see a lot more ball skidding with brand new or highly polished and waxed balls than dirty balls...

That would IMHO give weight to less friction increasing the likelihood of ball skidding...

I can attest to; as mentioned earlier in this thread, the Diamonds (and Connolly's too) do in fact create undesirable black/brown marks on the balls pretty quick when the balls are pocketed with authority...
Moreover, its a non-issue with Gold Crowns...

I am no physics major; so I would see if we could Get Dr. Dave and or Bob Jewett (both physics & billiards gurus) in on this discussion to see what their feedback is on it as I am sure they probably have already done something scientific in regards to the physics of cause and effect of excessive ball-skidding...
And have a book and or video on it...

I would be surprised if the slate used on Diamonds or Gold Crowns had anything to do with ball skidding as they are both finely ground Italian Slate from the same location/manufacturer as I understand it...
 
countryboy said:
just stroke the ball = no skids
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If you mean hitting the ball a little harder -- "with authority" -- then I think you're right. It is especially low-speed shots that skid. I'd say a large fraction of my skids occur on softish follow shots without side spin, and for those it's harder to play at higher speed.
 
Bohemian said:
I have dvd matches of US Opens from the early 80's with Earl Strickland, and Buddy Hall and Dave Bollman all complaining about balls skidding on the pristine Gold Crowns they were playing on at the time... (pre 860 days)

IMHO & experience ball skidding is more common on cloth that is fast like the 860 that is on Diamonds, vs. the canvas/shag carpet that is often found on Gold Crowns...

I have also seen ball skidding occur frequently on highly worn/used cloth... again 860 gets shinny spots pretty darn fast as does the apparent 860 knockoff known as SpeedCloth...

I also see a lot more ball skidding with brand new or highly polished and waxed balls than dirty balls...

That would IMHO give weight to less friction increasing the likelihood of ball skidding...

I can attest to; as mentioned earlier in this thread, the Diamonds (and Connolly's too) do in fact create undesirable black/brown marks on the balls pretty quick when the balls are pocketed with authority...
Moreover, its a non-issue with Gold Crowns...

I am no physics major; so I would see if we could Get Dr. Dave and or Bob Jewett (both physics & billiards gurus) in on this discussion to see what their feedback is on it as I am sure they probably have already done something scientific in regards to the physics of cause and effect of excessive ball-skidding...
And have a book and or video on it...

I would be surprised if the slate used on Diamonds or Gold Crowns had anything to do with ball skidding as they are both finely ground Italian Slate from the same location/manufacturer as I understand it...[/
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QUOTE]

Brazilian slate, not Italian...sorry;)
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This is a long and old thread. I have not read it all, so forgive if this has been suggested before.

If there is thought to be static electricity regarding the balls, parts of the table or player. Then just discharge the static with a conductor to ground. I supposed if there was enough charge build up, it could be viewed with the lights turned off.

Just saying. It it occurs, then the establishment/manufacturer can provide a design mod.
 
I guess when I bought my Diamond table, threw out a brand new set of Aramiths and balls were hopping when struck... I knew exactly why it was happening and didnt attempt to blame the table.

Dont strike your object balls with your cue stick and you'll see this a lot. Let a 3 year old play on your table for an hour and you will never see this phenomenon again as long as you own that rack.

I like clean balls and I like to see this hop. To me its a good sign and you will never ever hear me complain about it. :D
 
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