Are professionals supposed to call fouls on themselves?

[7Baller]

I was watching the GB 9 Ball Tour match yesterday between Jayson & Darren where Jayson fouled, the referee didn’t see it & the game continued. He was trying to play the 1 ball & it was partially blocked by the 5 so he could only see the left edge of the 1. The cue ball just grazed the 5 before making a thin contact on the 1. The 5 was in Jayson’s eye line so I’d be surprised if he didn’t see it move. If he did see it is he expected to call the foul?

GB 9 Ball Tour starts at 1:20:30

 

[straightline]

His eyes could have been locked onto the one. No way to tell.

 

[buckshotshoey]

Simple answer.... no.... they dont have to. If you asked is it ethical, then it's a completely different subject.

 

[gordml]

The vast majority of professionals would call their own fouls.
Its about karma. You don't want the fact that you cheated to be on your mind.
Same in snooker.

 

[justnum]

Is it a rare and obscure foul?

Some pros call fouls beginners don't even know about. And some hits should be watched by a ref, but beginners don't know when or what to look for.

 

[Black-Balled]

If a ref is assigned to the table neither participant should have input on the matter.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I think Shaw was not aware that the cue ball brushed the 5. I think he normally calls fouls on himself. I think he was completely focused on the 1-ball contact.

I think that both players should try to make sure that all rules are honored during the game. The game goes better that way. That includes calling fouls on yourself. For a professional, failing to do so gets you a reputation as a cheater.

There are lots of stories of top players calling fouls on themselves that no one else saw. Allen Hopkins called an unseen foul on himself against me when he was playing badly and under a lot of pressure. He won that match and the tournament. Karma.

 

[Lawnboy77]

I think Shaw was not aware that the cue ball brushed the 5. I think he normally calls fouls on himself. I think he was completely focused on the 1-ball contact.

I think that both players should try to make sure that all rules are honored during the game. The game goes better that way. That includes calling fouls on yourself. For a professional, failing to do so gets you a reputation as a cheater.

There are lots of stories of top players calling fouls on themselves that no one else saw. Allen Hopkins called an unseen foul on himself against me when he was playing badly and under a lot of pressure. He won that match and the tournament. Karma.

Perfectly stated! You saved me typing on my I-phone, thanks. Allen Hopkins is a class act!

 

[Bavafongoul]

Every player should police themselves and call a foul on themselves whenever it occurs.
Professional golfers do it all the time. It is referred to as “The Integrity of Sportsmanship”.
If you win dishonestly, you genuinely concede your opponent is superior & you can’t beat ‘em.

 

[ShootingArts]

If a ref is assigned to the table neither participant should have input on the matter.

This is the correct answer, assuming the ref is assigned to that single table. I remember Earl not calling a very blatant foul on himself pointing out it wasn't his job. I also remember a match with Keith, I think Efren was the other player. Bad call, the ref called a foul on the other player and picked up the cue ball. At this point about all Keith could do was say "I don't think so but I'll take it!" Like most pro's he has had enough bad calls go his way and against him to not let it get in his head. Most of us would subconsciously want to even things up, that karma thing.

One of my progressions was when I recognized that sometimes bad calls would cost you, sometimes you would gain by them. Your job to recognize it balances out over time and ignore the mental affects. I try to let bad calls inspire me to tighten down another notch and play better to reduce the chance of future bad calls. Other than that, like a mistake on my part, got to put it behind me and move on.

Hu

 

[fastone371]

Is it a rare and obscure foul?

Some pros call fouls beginners don't even know about. And some hits should be watched by a ref, but beginners don't know when or what to look for.

The title of the thread is

"Are professionals supposed to call fouls on themselves?"​

What in the world does this have to do with beginners????

 

[Black-Balled]

The title of the thread is

"Are professionals supposed to call fouls on themselves?"​

What in the world does this have to do with beginners????

The response to all his posts:
He doesn't know.

 

[justnum]

The title of the thread is

"Are professionals supposed to call fouls on themselves?"​

What in the world does this have to do with beginners????

some countries have pros that only shoot and are illiterate to the rules.

would you know to call the foul if you dont know what a foul looks like

 

[fastone371]

Every player should police themselves and call a foul on themselves whenever it occurs.
Professional golfers do it all the time. It is referred to as “The Integrity of Sportsmanship”.
If you win dishonestly, you genuinely concede your opponent is superior & you can’t beat ‘em.

The only time I do not necessarily agree with this is when my opponent is too busy playing around on their cell phone. If they are not paying attention I wont offer up that I fouled and that they have BIH, if I foul and they are not paying attention I will simply leave the table and sit down, I draw the line at trying to take another shot though. When I have an opponent that is paying attention I usually grab the cue ball and set it down near the kitchen if I foul which usually alerts them to the fact that they have BIH.

 

[Black-Balled]

This is the correct answer, assuming the ref is assigned to that single table. I remember Earl not calling a very blatant foul on himself pointing out it wasn't his job. I also remember a match with Keith, I think Efren was the other player. Bad call, the ref called a foul on the other player and picked up the cue ball. At this point about all Keith could do was say "I don't think so but I'll take it!" Like most pro's he has had enough bad calls go his way and against him to not let it get in his head. Most of us would subconsciously want to even things up, that karma thing.

One of my progressions was when I recognized that sometimes bad calls would cost you, sometimes you would gain by them. Your job to recognize it balances out over time and ignore the mental affects. I try to let bad calls inspire me to tighten down another notch and play better to reduce the chance of future bad calls. Other than that, like a mistake on my part, got to put it behind me and move on.

Hu

To me, the response to the question must be predicated on the abilites of the shooters.

Does the shooter have the ability to call the foul himself? If so, then he must also have the ability to call a foul on his opponent.

If either, then yes.
If neither, then no.

 

[BRussell]

Every player should police themselves and call a foul on themselves whenever it occurs.
Professional golfers do it all the time. It is referred to as “The Integrity of Sportsmanship”.
If you win dishonestly, you genuinely concede your opponent is superior & you can’t beat ‘em.

I believe golf rules explicitly state that you have to call fouls on yourself. I don’t think that’s the case in any pro pool rules. The rules usually say something about the non-shooter acting as the ref if there is no ref present, which is very different. A lot of pro pool players call fouls on themselves, probably most, but I wish it was explicitly stated in the rules.

Sports where refs call all fouls (i.e., most all pro sports except golf) end up with “acting” and “flopping” - I’m trying to imagine the analogous situation in pool, where players were constantly claiming non-existent fouls or standing up and yelling about fouls. Playing the refs and “acting” are some of the most ridiculous and annoying things about pro sports and I know that doesn’t really happen in pool, but I’d prefer if golf-like rules were explicitly in pool rules.

 

[fastone371]

some countries have pros that only shoot and are illiterate to the rules.

would you know to call the foul if you dont know what a foul looks like

How are they pros if they don't play professional tournaments??? Im sure that any pro level player that plays for money knows the rules, Im pretty sure they would lose a lot of money by not knowing the rules. Do you have an example of this "professional" who does not know the rules or is this simply a fictitious pro??
I would not call a really good player a pro if they have never competed in professional tournament though, at best he may be known as a shortstop.

 

[mikemosconi]

I would agree that in a referee match, only the referee should call fouls. No sense having a ref if they are not in total control of the game. A match without refs, I think that it is proper for one to call a foul on themselves, I also agree with others here - it is about integrity and about accepting the reality of the moment -or being willing to accept oneself as less than honest, or less than capable of winning honestly.

When I play a match and see a foul from my opponent, I generally wait first to see if they hand it over to me - that tells me a lot about the person on the table with me. It is just more respectful to admit your foul to your opponent than to force them to have to mention the foul before you do.

If I see a foul, and they do not admit it first to me, I do not declare " you fouled" - I ASK first - again to judge what the future expectations in the match will be. Don't mistake this for being a pushover - I have less tolerance for B.S. than most - as they say, it is all about how you approach an issue.

 

[Black-Balled]

How are they pros if they don't play professional tournaments??? Im sure that any pro level player that plays for money knows the rules, Im pretty sure they would lose a lot of money by not knowing the rules. Do you have an example of this "professional" who does not know the rules or is this simply a fictitious pro??
I would not call a really good player a pro if they have never competed in professional tournament though, at best he may be known as a shortstop.

He's clueless.

Now he expects you to believe there are pro players who don't know the rules of the game they've played long enough to become great at.

JustDum- name two pro players who are what you say...fuggit...name ONE.

 

[ShootingArts]

I much prefer a gentleman's game, call your own fouls. The opponent is still free to call fouls also. If a referee is present for that purpose however, he is expected to do his job!

Trying to play by anything other than gentleman's rules gets ugly fast. I was playing a guy for small stakes and we were playing "cue ball fouls only". Never-the-less, it was long standing precedent in that room that some rules like moving more than one object ball being a foul still applied. My opponent moved three or four object balls with a wildly swinging stick, looked at me and said "cue ball fouls only!" When it became my turn at the table I raked all of the object balls into my pocket and reminded him, "cue ball fouls only, I win!"

He was foaming at the mouth mad but he knew if he threw the first punch he wouldn't throw the last one. We quickly spelled out which rules did and didn't apply to our play and played together for another hour or three with no problems. I raked the balls like that a few more times over the years when people tried to bend the rules. If you are going to cheat, why go half ass?

Hu