Are the old Adam cues from the 70's and 80's nice players?

justinb386 said:
So, none of the good players played with an Adam back in the 70's and 80's?
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I wouldn't pay much attention to that comment. The good players played with anything they could get their hands on. Adam cues were affordable, so naturally there is less mystique about them. After my Gina was stolen, I bought an Adam in 1983 and played with it for 15 years. It was a simple 4 point rosewood cue, full splice, I bought new at a pool hall for $100. It was one of the best hitting cues I ever had and I had many 80 ball plus runs with it. The best player in town at the time borrowed my cue and loved it. I still have it but keeping it in the trunk of my car eventually warped it.
 
i had a brunswick that hit awesome, one of the best hitting cues ive had...i heard that adams was making cues for brunswick for a while, and i think the one i had was from that timeframe.
 
Dave-Kat said:
The Stramboulini ( ADAM/Helmstetter 80's MIJ ) I had a few years ago was a very well built 'Gem' and comparable in build and play to many of my Customs. It had a 3/8 x 10 Joint. It was a mystery cue to me for awhile since it did not have 'Juilo' mythical autograph on forearm like most.

Came with nice clean funky period correct suede box case. You know the story. Wish I held onto it. Probably never see another like it.

IMO > Adam cues vary in quality and build depending on age and line. I like the 70's simple 5/16/18 pointed brass pin full splice veneered models

Have a good weekend,

-Kat,
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Holy cats! I have the very same case - says CRYSTAL on the inside of the lid and on a brass tag on the front. Nice fuzzy case LOL. I bought it with my Adams back in 1989.

Lesh
 
A real good friend of mine has the cue you're interested in which he purchased new in 1986. It's a full splice cue and he says it's without a doubt one of the most solid cues he's ever hit or used and he has a ton of cues of all kinds. His isn't for sale but he said to jump on it if the cue is available and in good shape. Don't penny pinch because it'll feel and play better than very high end production cues as well as most customs.

The weight can be whatever you wish because it has a removable and interchangeable weight bolt. Without the bolt the cue is 19 oz. with the original shaft and could be lighter with a Predator or OB1. After 3 decades it still rolls as straight as an arrow with no trace of wobble.

The joint is a piloted 5/16 x 18. He sometimes uses 5/16 x 18 flat faced Meucci shafts just to change the weight and feel. Works like a charm and he plays with the cue almost daily along with a Helmstetter 97-12 and 98-3. They're also excellent cues but just a hair below the Adam Ritz in feel.

He read a few of the negative comments on here about the cue and said to tell you, "They're morons. I'm the one who has owned and played with the cue for 30 years and they have no clue as is typical with forum know it all's. It's as good as a cue gets which includes high end customs and doesn't have one negative.



I'm trying to get in touch with him to send a picture. I'll post if he sends it.
 
I have an old National made in 1968 by Bob Meucci and Richard Helmstetter, no wrap ,birdseye butt, piloted joint, still straight as an arrow, plays very good. As I understand, they were only made for about 1 year, then National moved the factory to Fla. and started importing the sticks, both Bob and Richard left about that time to pursue their own destiny. These were very high quality cues.
 
The one thing I have heard from cuemakers is that Helmstetter/Adam cues were cut from wood that was still a bit "green." Therefore, a lot of those cues warped over a bit of time.

Having said that, I still like some of their older designs, such as the Corsair, and the Galaxie. If you can find one in good shape, I think it's part of cue history.

All the best,
WW
 
WildWing said:
The one thing I have heard from cuemakers is that Helmstetter/Adam cues were cut from wood that was still a bit "green." Therefore, a lot of those cues warped over a bit of time.

WW
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I guess you've owned or played with plenty of them first hand and rolled them to see how straight or warped they were, correct? (bet NOT)

Who were these cuemakers that were around 30 to 35 years ago that chopped the cues to see the age of the wood and are still making cues to verify it?

I can't verify it and don't know but if my friend says all of his Adam and Helmstetter cues roll perfectly straight from first hand ownership, who needs second hand innuendo and rumors from non specified individuals such as yourself or bogus cuemakers?

Can you post a picture of your Adam or Helmstetter cues owned in the past?
 
SpiderWebComm said:
"I guess you've owned or played with plenty of them first hand and rolled them to see how straight or warped they were, correct? (bet NOT)"

Yes.

"Who were these cuemakers that were around 30 to 35 years ago that chopped the cues to see the age of the wood and are still making cues to verify it?"

Scruggs, Cochran, and Rauenzahn, over 40 years. So one still around. Feel free to check with Jerry on his experience.

"who needs second hand inuendo and rumors from non specified individuals such as yourself or bogus cuemakers?"
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As I said, I do like certain Adam cues. Maybe you should calm down a bit, sport.
 
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WildWing said:
As I said, I do like certain Adam cues. Maybe you should calm down a bit, sport.
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Maybe you should stop throwing out asinine statements that have no foundation of truth about green wood and various cuemakers stating it. Name names of those who said it and we'll decide credibility.

There's nothing wrong about liking certain Adam cues and the ones you mentioned are very well designed fine looking cues. They were also built during the same time period as the AH-10 Ritz.

What about their "green wood", sport?
 
IMG_1186_800x532.jpg


Here is a pic of the cue-
 
There were known production problems with the early cues. Here's a reference:

https://www.poolcues.com/history-of-adam-cues

Although these were probably made in the late 60s, some were around needing repair in the 70s and later, as the three builders mentioned to me. They all mentioned that wood hadn't been aged properly, using the word green. The article substantiates the timing of that. Production no doubt got better later on; I certainly never said that wasn't the case.

Hope that helps with the understanding of history.
 
WildWing said:
There were known production problems with the early cues. Here's a reference:

https://www.poolcues.com/history-of-adam-cues

Although these were probably made in the late 60s, some were around needing repair in the 70s and later, as the three builders mentioned to me. They all mentioned that wood hadn't been aged properly, using the word green. The article substantiates the timing of that. Production no doubt got better later on; I certainly never said that wasn't the case.

Hope that helps with the understanding of history.
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Interesting article that I had never seen before and thanks for posting. However, I saw nothing in that article alluding to ADAM CUES having any problems with warping due to freshly cut wood. Those problems were in earlier years prior to the formation of Adam Cues.

I just found out from my friend that he has 3 Adam cues made in the early to mid 80's. Besides the AH-10 Ritz in the picture I posted, he also has an AH-2 Americana and one of the cues made in Japan with no number or name.

ALL 3 have stood the test of time over 30 years with not a trace of wobble or warp and are straight as any cue can be.

The OP of this thread has a keen interest specifically in the AH-10 Ritz. Based on someone who owns it (my friend) with first hand experience over 30 years, there's no reason why the OP shouldn't get it if available. They're hard to come by and great cues.

You can go on Amazon.com and pick any product out of thousands and each will have REVIEWS. 99.8% of the reviews can have positive glowing remarks. But let one negative individual come on to blast it or provide a problem that occurs in 1 out of 3,000,000 and the negative comments will many times have more influence over a new customer's buying decision than the 99.8% positive. That was my immediate reaction to your comment about young green wood. And just because some "other cuemakers" who have their own personal and financial interests at heart who regularly knock anything other than their own, I have to say BULLSH*T.

Is it possible that earlier cues made in the late 60's or early 70's had problems from thousands of cues made by various companies or cuemakers? Sure. Not necessarily wood related but experience and workmanship related. Crappy epoxy or glue during that period probably caused more problems over the years than anything else.

But I've not heard anything inherently wrong about the wood at that time during the LATE 70's and EARLY TO MID 80's. Meucci, who got crucified later for inlays and workmanship, is still highly praised and valued as fantastic cues for their wood in the "ORIGINAL" series during the late 70's and early 80's.

This article about Helmstetter and the formation of Adam Cues expands further on your article: https://www.poolcues.com/history-of-helmstetter-cues
He/They stood for nothing but QUALITY products and workmanship by the time they were starting to produce the AH Series cues which were years beyond the ones made in the 60's and early 70's with warpage problems.
 
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WildWing said:
There were known production problems with the early cues. Here's a reference:

https://www.poolcues.com/history-of-adam-cues

Although these were probably made in the late 60s, some were around needing repair in the 70s and later, as the three builders mentioned to me. They all mentioned that wood hadn't been aged properly, using the word green. The article substantiates the timing of that. Production no doubt got better later on; I certainly never said that wasn't the case.

Hope that helps with the understanding of history.
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The 4th grade called: they want your credit for reading back.

Dale(comprehender in charge)
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Interesting article that I had never seen before and thanks for posting. However, I saw nothing in that article alluding to ADAM CUES having any problems with warping due to freshly cut wood. Those problems were in earlier years prior to the formation of Adam Cues.

I just found out from my friend that he has 3 Adam cues made in the early to mid 80's. Besides the AH-10 Ritz in the picture I posted, he also has an AH-2 Americana and one of the cues made in Japan with no number or name.

ALL 3 have stood the test of time over 30 years with not a trace of wobble or warp and are straight as any cue can be.

The OP of this thread has a keen interest specifically in the AH-10 Ritz. Based on someone who owns it (my friend) with first hand experience over 30 years, there's no reason why the OP shouldn't get it if available. They're hard to come by and great cues.
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You're welcome, glad to help. Yes, the OP's question was on a specific cue, but for general readership, I also took it to be a generic question, as it referred to broad eras of the overall Adam line. I still remember some local pool rooms in the 70s having cues for sale they advertised as Adam, but almost had to be from the earlier era, because the quality wasn't there. So that era between the production changes can be a bit murky; as you've noted, some known examples weren't necessarily marked. Although these aren't extremely valuable pieces, it's good to know the pedigree and era of a cue for purchase. That was my overall point, maybe not conveyed in enough detail at the start.

Generally I agree with you on the motivations of cuemakers, but I can assure that was not the case with the three custom makers I've dealt with for decades. They weren't competing for my business; they already had it. We had a lot of discussions on older and newer cues, that's all. Now, on questionable, or largely failed cuemakers, I can't comment. I have no need to deal with them. They certainly jump to identify themselves, though.

I think it's also safe to say the market is considerably different between the custom makers I've mentioned, and the Adam and related series. But, the later-era Adam series referred to has been a very competent line of cues, considering it's price range; no disagreement there.

All the best,
WW
 
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So what is the result of all the information discussed in this thread? JustinB386, the OP, seems to have left the building with no clear cut decision or "I appreciate your time and help" one way or another as far as his next move on the cue he wanted to buy which is the Adam AH-10 Ritz.

He's started a new thread on "thin butt cues" and who makes them for his next purchase criteria.

WHY?! WHY?! WHY GET INVOLVED WITH THIS FORUM?

SHOOT ME! RUN ME OVER WITH A GARBAGE TRUCK! WATERBOARD ME!
RUN BAMBOO SLIVERS UNDER MY FINGERNAILS! IT'S USELESS AND STUPID! PUT C4 UNDER MY TOILET!
 
SpiderWebComm said:
So what is the result of all the information discussed in this thread? JustinB386, the OP, seems to have left the building with no clear cut decision or "I appreciate your time and help" one way or another as far as his next move on the cue he wanted to buy which is the Adam AH-10 Ritz.

He's started a new thread on "thin butt cues" and who makes them for his next purchase criteria.

WHY?! WHY?! WHY GET INVOLVED WITH THIS FORUM?

SHOOT ME! RUN ME OVER WITH A GARBAGE TRUCK! WATERBOARD ME!
RUN BAMBOO SLIVERS UNDER MY FINGERNAILS! IT'S USELESS AND STUPID! PUT C4 UNDER MY TOILET!
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I can't help but agree with you, but there are a few salient points.

Justin does ask a lot of questions, and I mean a lot. Some of us with experience try to help, going back in this hobby to the 70s. It's been a long road.

Cuemaking in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, is a bit hard to track. Unless you were involved with cuemakers in those eras, you don't have first hand explanations. And unless you've seen some of the repair work they've received, you haven't seen what was made in those early decades.

Then, there are the snipes with personal insults. Fortunate for the ignore function.

Bottom line, I think the Adam/Helmstetter/RCH/Stamboulini line has a very good period, depending on the time of production. And, transitions are sometimes a big if, especially when there was an original parent company.

I also think if someone is constantly asking if a cue is a good bet, then the best alternative is to get the cue in your hands, go over it, hit it, clean the joint surfaces if it doesn't sound right, roll it, sight it, and decide if it's a good buy.

In other words, I guess this is an average AZ thread...

All the best,
WW
 
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I have a vintage 1973 Adams cue I paid 250.00 for it in 1973.. It is 20 oz and 13 mil. Excellent condition with leather wrap and a lot of pearl inlay and beautiful to look at and a dream to play with. It was mfg in the USA before Adams compromised on their structural integrity and moved to Japan.
Would anyone like to make an offer? I can supply pictures next week. I am the original owner. Cue has barely been used in the past 40 years.
4079285048
 
lwillylo said:
I have a vintage 1973 Adams cue I paid 250.00 for it in 1973.. It is 20 oz and 13 mil. Excellent condition with leather wrap and a lot of pearl inlay and beautiful to look at and a dream to play with. It was mfg in the USA before Adams compromised on their structural integrity and moved to Japan.
Would anyone like to make an offer? I can supply pictures next week. I am the original owner. Cue has barely been used in the past 40 years.
4079285048
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It's an 8 year old thread. LOL
It's Adam cues not Adams.
The ones that were made in Japan were outstanding cues.
 
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