Are We getting too anal with shot making?

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
I think too many players get anal on shot making. A lot of players, even players that have played for years get pretty good on their position play and just forget about it and put all their eggs on trying to pocket balls better. When they hit that wall of no more improvement they look for a magic bullet for shot making. I was one of them. I was stuck as a “B” player and not consistent from day to day.

About 6 months ago I did what I said I’d never do, especially at 70 years old. I tossed my game and started all over again from the basics like a beginner. I took my pre-shot from CJ Wiley, drills from Joe Tucker, learned some stuff from Mika’s dvd, Dr. Dave was a help, and watched hours of top players on stream and dvd.

I found out it wasn’t my shot making holding me back; it was that I needed tighter position and better table speed to move to the next level. I needed to always think at least three balls ahead for position. Now, with the tighter position I have less long or severe cut-shots. I find a much bigger percentage of my shots can be pocketed with no or just a little running English=fewer misses. It took me a long time to wake up to it. It’s not that I was never told. My Dad was a good shortstop and he told me all this in the late 1940’s. "If you can run a rack of balls it’s probably not your shot making holding you back. It’s probably your position and table speed." Buddy Hall and bunch of other pros told me the same thing over the years, but I knew it all. After all I was making money playing the way I did. Johnnyt
 
Very sage advice Johnny. In a perfect world, you would never have to make a hard shot because you have perfect position on every ball. I find that when I start missing balls, it's because I'm getting lazy on position. When I really bear down and concentrate on moving from ball-to-ball, I find that, miraculously, shots get easier.

I always think I need to work on shotmaking and my stroke. The truth is, I can make most shots and my stroke can be very powerful when needed. I figured out I need to focus harder on position and speed control to become better, exactly as you said JT.
 
position

position play takes pressure off of your shot making
pattern play takes pressure off of your position
shot making takes pressure off of your pattern play

practice all three
 
I need to be a good shot maker because my opponents always leave me garbage when I return to the table and If I miss it always ends up in front of a pocket. :smile:
 
I did see some younger players at the open and the world taking some shots most of the older players don't shoot unnecessarily.

I hope those newer players keep pushing their skill level. There are so many types of shots a player can shoot during a match that knowing all the stationary strikes on a cue ball is not only fun but fun to learn and fun to watch. Its great seeing the younger pros shoot shots they are comfortable with. I hope they incorporate kiss shots and caroms as much as they do kicks, jumps and banks.

Oops I think kick and carom may have overlapping meanings. I am unsure if the difference is in a kick a ball is pocket and a carom no ball is pocketed. I was trying to use carom as a reference to using the rails as a way to get a shot.
 
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Neil said:
A kick shot is one that the cb hits the rail first, then hits the ob. A carom is when you shoot the ob into another ob to carom the first ob off the second. A combo is when you shoot a ob into another ob to make the second ob. Carom is to make the first ob. (or put it somewhere safe)
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What is the name when you the CB hits multiple rails and then hits a OB that gets pocketed? I thought that was a carom, just telling you what I was thinking I am not saying I am right or wrong, just trying to learn the terms... OK.
 
Neil said:
Shot on the one is a kick shot, doesn't matter how many rails the cb hits first. Shot on the 2 is a carom shot. Shot on the 4 is a combo to make the 5.
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That is awesome info. The book isn't always clear about how the definitions are applied sometimes.

Suppose someone shot into the rail the CB jumps off the rail and then hits the OB into the pocket. Is it a kick, a jump can it be both? I was thinking it was a kick with some interesting spin that made it jump but those terms are not as snappy as the vocabulary you got.

The other shot is when the CB has extreme spin collides with an OB jumps and then hits another OB that gets pocketed, I think a kiss shot but so much more happens.

Sometimes just goofing off shooting around those shots wouldn't be described as trick shots they are game shots.
 
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A carom may also involve the cue ball kissing off the first object ball and into a second object ball which is pocketed.

I suppose what is important (potting, speed, position, pattern play, etc) is sort of an individual thing depending on why the specific player's innings end most often. Is it because a makeable shot was missed for which the position, under the circumstances, was acceptable. Or was the shot missed because it was made more difficult by poor speed, pattern choice or position route. It requires a little bit of self-analysis.
 
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Too Anal

DogsPlayingPool said:
A carom may also involve the cue ball kissing off the first object ball and into a second object ball which is pocketed.

I suppose what is important (potting, speed, position, pattern play, etc) is sort of an individual thing depending on why the specific player's innings end most often. Is it because a makeable shot was missed for which the position, under the circumstances, was acceptable. Or was the shot missed because it was made more difficult by poor speed, pattern choice or position route. It requires a little bit of self-analysis.
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Wouldn't that be a carom combo? Or a combo carom.
If I made that shot everyone would call it a "lucky" shot.

One thing I know for sure , the first thing you lose as a player when you haven't played for a while is your cueball and object ball speed control.
I can always make shots but it takes a week or 2 to get the feel for precision shape.
 
Neil said:
I do agree that position play is not talked about much. The reason for that is that it is rather difficult to put in words. You can show the correct route, but not the touch required. You can talk about tangent lines, 30 degree rule, but true position play still comes down to feel. That is something each individual has to come to grips with on their own.
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This paragraph sums it up very well. For a fact different players have different speeds. What might be considered a lag-speed shot to me might be a hard struck ball for someone else. The hardest thing to teach is proper ball speed as each individual has a different perception of what a soft, medium, or hard, shots are (and all shots under, over, and in-between).

Maniac
 
"Target Pool"

I googled "Target Pool" and found an article by Bob Jewitt, and it seems pretty cool! For any interested the link is
http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2005-07.pdf
I think that it should be pretty easy to create your own target, buy one of those shot making games (deck of card), and go to town! I've got real problems with my finesse game, and it kills my ability to properly safety or play shapes. Ball speed is really something I need to master (among many others). Anyways good post!!

On the subject, in league tonight I won my 8-ball match 3-0 (my first "rackless night") and during the last game I made a ridiculous shot on the eight. It was near the foot spot and was blocked by opponent. I kicked off the long rail and made it in the corner... it was what called (for the sake of calling... in reality I was just going for contact) but probably wouldn't make it again in 20 shots... would have been much easier if I had better position on the 8 in the first place ;)

found this too... even better:
http://gailglazebrook.wordpress.com/2010/12/15/target-pool-by-kim-davenport/
 
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Potting balls isn't really that hard, it really isn't

You see a lot of bar/pub bangers who can pot a ball ok centre ball

Position/shape is what separates the bangers from the players, no doubt

You need to be good at everything to be a really good player but i honestly think someone can become a decent potter in 1 year but will only have decent position play after 3-5 years
 
There is a great emphasis on shot-making. An emphasis is needed for variation shooting, most of the pros play soft and controlled shots except on the break. It makes sense when money is on the line and only rarely will they play a loose canon shot to get out of a safety.

But imagine if they shoot high force shots regularly or long/multiple rail with control, there freedom of position and play with the CB jumps significantly.

These ideas go against all the classic gambling strategies and are more ideas for someone just goofing off with the table. But they could turn into something if someone has an application for it.
 
Neil said:
They do come up in games, but not that often. It is a useful tool to have in your bag just in case the need arises.
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I am not sure what English means but I guess it is not spin, is it torsion?
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
A carom may also involve the cue ball kissing off the first object ball and into a second object ball which is pocketed.

I suppose what is important (potting, speed, position, pattern play, etc) is sort of an individual thing depending on why the specific player's innings end most often. Is it because a makeable shot was missed for which the position, under the circumstances, was acceptable. Or was the shot missed because it was made more difficult by poor speed, pattern choice or position route. It requires a little bit of self-analysis.
Click to expand...

I think this is commonly refered to as a billiard.

:cool:
 
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