Asked to look at a shot

dabarbr

dabarbr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Recently I happened to be at a place where they were having a tournament. The players in one of the matches needed someone to look at a shot. They spotted me across the room and asked me to come over to oversee the shot. When I went over I realized that this could be a sticky situation for me because of the way the balls lay-ed. If the shot was hit decent it would be very close and I didn't feel comfortable being put into that situation.

I told them that they should call the tournament director to call the shot. Has this ever happened to some of you guys? I have seen some bad calls from the person asked to oversee. You are expected to make the call immediately to prove that you saw it correctly. I believe sometimes you might need a few seconds to digest what you just saw.

My appreciation goes to the referees for making these type of calls knowing that one of the two players will disagree. I have no problem when I can see that the call will be easy. It seems that when the call may be difficult we tense up and are looking for more that there is. Have you ever declined to look at a shot?
 
Yes I have on more than one occasion. I refuse to make a call if I am friends with only one of the players in the game. For some, no matter what you call you are wrong if they don't like your decision.
 
dabarbr said:
[...] Have you ever declined to look at a shot?
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I've wanted to, but I don't think I have.

I think what we should promote is the idea that once somebody is called to look at a shot, his shortly-after-the-shot judgment is what we're looking for and agreeing to. The call should be accepted and honored immediately.

Sure it could be wrong, or sure he could privately change his mind after a spectator yells that the three ball couldn't have moved forward unless such and such or whatever. But unless we want to encourage situations even when we've taken measures to avoid situations, I think the call should be the call.

If I call a shot, I consider myself to be judge and jury. My call is my call, even if I secretly worry about it after the fact. My view is the fairness of the situation derives not from any certainty the right call will be made, but rather from the the fact an impartial process for making the determination has been agreed on.
 
dabarbr said:
... Have you ever declined to look at a shot?
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Not that I recall.

A week ago, the league operator was in a match and he asked me to call a shot by his opponent. The guy looked a little surprised when I called the foul. The problem is that there weren't many other people around to call the shot. I suppose I should have asked the shooter two things: Is it OK with you if I call this shot, and do you know the rule on this shot? Then I should have told him how I intended to judge the shot.
 
No, I don't recall ever declining to make a call.

IMO I think anyone that plays in tournaments should be capable of making a call.

If you don't know the rules, why play the game?
 
I decline if 1 player is a close friend of mine. Would'nt want other guy thinking call went wrong cause of friendship. Otherwise I would just make the call and walk away.
 
Tom In Cincy said:
If you don't know the rules, why play the game?
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You'd absolutely shit your pants if you played in the Danny K's tournaments on a regular basis. There are several people who don't even know the most basic rules. There's one moron who constantly asks over and over again what this or that rule is, and he's been playing for 30+ years

the more I play there the more I realize how much of a joke that place can be.
 
tucson9ball said:
I decline if 1 player is a close friend of mine. Would'nt want other guy thinking call went wrong cause of friendship. Otherwise I would just make the call and walk away.
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It's common where I am for me, for example, to be asked to judge a hit in an important league game between one of my teammates and someone from another team.

I take it as a compliment to my integrity that I'm asked. And I'm not the only one. I readily ask a member of the opposing team to judge my hit on a close shot.

Of course there are certain people I'm not going to ask, but my experience is most people are capable of being and willing to be impartial.
 
Call it like u see it, screw who likes the call. thats what i say.

They dont like the way u call it then next time they wont bother u.
 
Tom In Cincy said:
No, I don't recall ever declining to make a call.

IMO I think anyone that plays in tournaments should be capable of making a call.

If you don't know the rules, why play the game?
Click to expand...


Not so fast.....I see glasses on someone in your avitar...Is that you?

If so...take your glasses off and see if you are still comfortable making a close call...

I wear contacts that make my vision better, but does not correct astigmatism... Quite often I have to check various angles in a rack just to see if the balls are frozen...

Sometimes for weekly events I am too lazy to put my contacts in...or I forget...and just play with blurry vision...

I have called bad hits on myself and my opponent has said..."no that was a good hit"

If I call someone to watch a hit...I don't watch the shot...All I do look away and wait for the person making the call to say either way.
 
Tom In Cincy said:
No, I don't recall ever declining to make a call.

IMO I think anyone that plays in tournaments should be capable of making a call.

If you don't know the rules, why play the game?
Click to expand...

You probably mean the main tournaments, not local ones. I have been in quite a few tournaments (and leagues) were we have to go over the same rules with the same people 3-4 times. Like "no, you can't call a safe in 9-ball and make the ball" "Yes, after an 8-ball break the table is open", explaining what a push shot is, things like that.

One of the best ones I had this Monday. I'm watching a game on TV as the other guy shoots, I see him stoke out of the cornet of my eye a few times, then all of a sudden he stops and looks at me... then back to his shot. The dope double-hit the ball and instead of either ignoring it and continue to shoot in the hopes I did not see it, he looked to see if I saw and what I would say, then went back to shooting. Now that's not only a cheater, but a dumb cheater. I never would have taken note of the foul unless I noticed his head turn to look at me.
 
I readily ask a member of the opposing team to judge my hit on a close shot.
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That's a good practice that promotes sportsmanship. I think people respond positively to the assumption of their honesty. Like the old addage "act as if you're living in the world you want to live in".

pj
chgo
 
dabarbr said:
Recently I happened to be at a place where they were having a tournament. The players in one of the matches needed someone to look at a shot. They spotted me across the room and asked me to come over to oversee the shot. When I went over I realized that this could be a sticky situation for me because of the way the balls lay-ed. If the shot was hit decent it would be very close and I didn't feel comfortable being put into that situation.

I told them that they should call the tournament director to call the shot. Has this ever happened to some of you guys? I have seen some bad calls from the person asked to oversee. You are expected to make the call immediately to prove that you saw it correctly. I believe sometimes you might need a few seconds to digest what you just saw.

My appreciation goes to the referees for making these type of calls knowing that one of the two players will disagree. I have no problem when I can see that the call will be easy. It seems that when the call may be difficult we tense up and are looking for more that there is. Have you ever declined to look at a shot?
Click to expand...
If you absolutely have to call it, it might help to explain to both shooters."okay, a legal hit results in this ball going this was and that ball going this way." Otherwise make sure they know a simultaneous hit goes to the shooter.
 
fan-tum said:
If you absolutely have to call it, it might help to explain to both shooters."okay, a legal hit results in this ball going this was and that ball going this way." Otherwise make sure they know a simultaneous hit goes to the shooter.
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I agree with what you say. If I absolutely have to make the call I first get the OK from both players to do so. For lower level players I do try to explain to them as to what I'm looking for.

Most situations I'm talking about are not about rules of the game but things like close hits, double hits or ball before rail or after.

I sometimes feel that if there is someone in charge of the league or tournament it might be better for them to take the heat. If I can avoid it I try not to look at a shot if one of my friends is involved.
 
Making the close calls is much easier if you observe the position of the two balls in question. If you have played enough pool, you know the balls will react differently based on which ball is hit first. It can be hard to see the actual contact, but it's easier to see the results.
Steve
 
In my league we routinely judge shots for a game involving a teammate. In 3 years I haven't seen an argument. Discussion maybe, but no argument. Its a given that the judgement is final and it is respected.

In my previous league (my first) dirty tricks were encouraged and anything you could get away with was OK. If you admitted to a foul without the opponent calling it first, it was a sign of weakness. Total Bush. Any decent player they unearthed would flee to the good league leaving only the idiots. They still don't get it.
 
Tom In Cincy said:
No, I don't recall ever declining to make a call.

IMO I think anyone that plays in tournaments should be capable of making a call.

If you don't know the rules, why play the game?
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I agree that they should be capable, but not that they are. It's often not a question of knowledge of the rules so much as a question of knowledge of the physics.

I agree with Bob that if you are asked to make a call you should make sure that both players are willing to accept your call, and with Mike that whatever call you make should be the end of the story, right or wrong.
 
dabarbr said:
Recently I happened to be at a place where they were having a tournament. The players in one of the matches needed someone to look at a shot. They spotted me across the room and asked me to come over to oversee the shot. When I went over I realized that this could be a sticky situation for me because of the way the balls lay-ed. If the shot was hit decent it would be very close and I didn't feel comfortable being put into that situation.

I told them that they should call the tournament director to call the shot. Has this ever happened to some of you guys? I have seen some bad calls from the person asked to oversee. You are expected to make the call immediately to prove that you saw it correctly. I believe sometimes you might need a few seconds to digest what you just saw.

My appreciation goes to the referees for making these type of calls knowing that one of the two players will disagree. I have no problem when I can see that the call will be easy. It seems that when the call may be difficult we tense up and are looking for more that there is. Have you ever declined to look at a shot?
Click to expand...

ALL THE TIME! I get asked to call hits frequently, and if it's a money match I always decline (I used to do it). I can't win in this spot. I can only make one player unhappy. So why should I get involved. It's a no win situation for me.

My response is usually "I get paid to make calls. I'm off duty now." They get it, and don't ask me again.

Now, if it's a league match or a cheap game, I may help out. Otherwise I pass for good reason.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Not that I recall.

Is it OK with you if I call this shot, and do you know the rule on this shot? Then I should have told him how I intended to judge the shot.
Click to expand...

This sounds like the way to do it along with telling them that the decision is final.
 
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