Has anyone purchase any of the Atlas shaft squares. They are 30x 1 1/8 square. They say A+ but that an opinion. Just wondering if anyone had seen them. Thanks for any replys.
Atlas shaft squares.
- Thread starter kiinstructor
- Start date
I bought a bunch. Most turned out quite good. Several
shafts I could not align the grains. They seem to be stable.
For the price, it's hard to beat.
shafts I could not align the grains. They seem to be stable.
For the price, it's hard to beat.
I bought ten a few years ago. They seemed alright to me. The grain was pretty straight and average growth ring density.
thanks guys. I figured for the price your not out that much if they are junk. Appreciate the reply.
I ordered some more and got mostly break jump shafts , although the wood cuts real even , time will tell...
Time will tell what ?
Are they low ring count soft woods now or not ?
They are low ring count , grain runnout , not A+ as specified ... Called and he said that's the best he has ... Big difference from the earlier order . No big deal , as a cue maker I'm not surprised when I get the shorted by a supplier . They don't build cues and action speaks louder than words ... they don't care , you prepay so your money is gone and you're at their mercy ... I'll use them for cheap conversions and JB's ...
This is where due diligence would serve a cue maker well. What would anybody expect from a $6 shaft? Call any logger or sawmill in the northern hemisphere & explain that you want 1x1x30" squares of hard maple with no sugar marks, mineral streaks, knots, or other defects. Tell them the grain must be straight & tight and run perfectly parallel to the blank, and that you want them for $6/ea. You'll get laughed at, regardless of how many you want to order. That's straight from the source, not a retail reseller.
Now consider that Atlas has to buy them & then mark them up for resale in order to make any money. So how much are they paying? Again, what would anybody expect? Atlas is getting them for cheaper than the cost of #1SFS grade maple, so what grade is the wood these things are being cut from? There's a reason good shafts are so hard to come by anymore, and it's not because there's a shortage of good maple. It's because most cue makers won't pay what good shafts are worth. The timer & lumber industry follows economic inflation, meaning wood gets more expensive year after year. The days of a good $6 shaft are more than a decade passed.
Now consider that Atlas has to buy them & then mark them up for resale in order to make any money. So how much are they paying? Again, what would anybody expect? Atlas is getting them for cheaper than the cost of #1SFS grade maple, so what grade is the wood these things are being cut from? There's a reason good shafts are so hard to come by anymore, and it's not because there's a shortage of good maple. It's because most cue makers won't pay what good shafts are worth. The timer & lumber industry follows economic inflation, meaning wood gets more expensive year after year. The days of a good $6 shaft are more than a decade passed.
Some q-builders are so full of it , not only from the butt , the mouth too . Magic forest ,gimme a break . The truth of it is I offered to pay more for some cherry picked blanks , and the supplier refused . Not my fault he doesn't like money . He sent me worse wood !!! I paid more than $6 for your facts plus shp. Get it right the first time . Sounds like someone OD'd on Ex-Lax ... That's the truth , the whole truth , and nothing but the truth , so help me GOD !!!!
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I got extra popcorn.... $6.00 a bag.
I'll do 5.00 a bag, but some butter might run off....
I have to say WOW to Nobody's response.
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I'll do 5.00 a bag, but some butter might run off....
I have to say WOW to Nobody's response.
Im just amazed he hasnt called someone a pelican yet!
I would have to agree and disagree with your statements. Plain maple has not really gone up in price over the years. Perhaps on the retail end it has but certainly not on the wholesale end. The problem is you are correct that no sawmill or logger can sell you 1 or 100 turning squares for shafts and charge you $6. They don’t want to deal with anyone on that level especially cue makers. The kiss of death to all wood suppliers is the moment you say 1 x 1 x 30. They know this is for cues and they also know that no cue maker can be satisfied and so they discourage the sale. We speak with many mills and suppliers who tell us story after story of “cue makers” who stroll in, wanting 1 x 1 x 30, chisels for a price, looks over 250 sticks and 3 hours later comes out with 9 sticks. And then, one fellow told me the customer’s credit card was declined! That’s a typical story. We’re not saying any of you would do that but this is what these wood suppliers are up against. They don’t need you for a $127 or a $600 sale and take up 3-5 hours of their time.
As far as buying $6 shafts; they’re readily available. Once again you have to understand that when a company buys 20,000+ shafts annually as we do, there is a huge price consideration. We have a market for the $2 shafts as well as the $22 shafts. You get what you pay for and that’s why there are different price tiers.
There is a company in Canada that sells some, what we like to term, sanded broom handles. They’ll sell you 100 for $600 plus shipping which ends up costing you $7 to $7.50 per delivered. Do they still charge for the boxes to pack them in? Anyway, they are 1” dowels that are sanded and stressed out from all that heat of sanding them so smoothly. You'll typically get about 60% usable shafts from what we've been told by numerous cue makers. The 40% is waste. Now divide it up and see what your cost is; let's say $750 divided by 60 good shafts = $12.50 per and that's for sanded poles! These “shafts” come from their sanded pole division which produces such things as broom handles. The wood is ok, for the average “cue maker” and some guys get some decent poles, I mean sticks from each batch of 100. Many who buy these 100 shafts cull out what they believe are the best and then try to off the rest on others. Hey it’s American capitalism at its finest.
A more important questions is....
Why do rough cut 1" shaft dowels need to be sanded in the first place? Oh, that's right they have the equipment for making the sanded broom handles so why not produce the shafts in the same manner. That makes sense to us.
Sanding is friction and friction is heat whereby burning the shafts. Burning doesn't mean brown in color. Sanding a piece of wood on large mega production equipment is excessive heat and abuse nothing that comes close to how we sand a shaft for finishing. Why, on God's green earth do 1" shaft dowels need to be sanded in the first place? Maybe it is because that's the way they produce their broom stick handles. One inch shaft dowels do not need to be sanded; in fact, it's a procedure that doesn't need to be done at all. They just need to be turned round; period. Broom handles need to be sanded.
The Canadian outfit sells a lot of wooden dowels to broom stick manufacturers and they have to send them sanded dowels. I mean, imagine a broom stick handle that wasn't sanded. It doesn't matter if a broom stick is exposed to excessive heat as broom stick handles are always warped. They are sanding shafts the same as they sand broom sticks. However, regardless of that fact, most shafts can eventually be made to remain straight no matter what abuse they are put through; broom handles or otherwise.
Atlas is a fine and reputable company (dear God please don't strike me dead) as is Bill Dominiak, Hightower and most other shaft wood suppliers. You have to work with the supplier and that supplier will do their best to satisfy you. It's all about long and lasting relationships that need to be built up through the years. The better the relationship, the better the wood. Rather than hunting around for the next best deal, try working with your supplier.
I got extra popcorn.... $6.00 a bag.
Pop some more.
Gotta love all that pathological cheese too.
Hi,
Where a tree or forest is located in reference to the slope of a valley and sun light, elevation to the water table, iron content and minerals of the region, age and density of the forest, annual rain numbers, temperature during winter season are just a few things that can create the ideal conditions. I believe the so called Magic forests do exist.
That is why I select all of my maple planks from stock that grows in the Iron Mt. Michigan Region.
That being said each tree is its own entity and in the so called magic forest there is no guarantee of the ideal shaft wood but the there are forest regions where the yield of good stuff is very good as opposed to regions where you don't want anything to do with.
Me myself, I want density in my shaft wood that has a straight grain. I also don't want high growth ring shafts either. 8 to 12 is what I look for with high density per unit volume. If you go through a few hundred planks and collate them the weight and ring count can vary a lot. This is mostly effected by the area that the quarter sawn plank came from the tree in cross section.
If you listen to and believe some who sell shaft stock and grade them in reference to grain count as the indicator for rating same, you might want to study a little more concerning what Eric has present to the forum, Cue making concerning shaft wood is all about due-diligence, being the replete observer and knowledge is directly proportional to the amount of reflected shafts that must be trashed after seasoning and turning. But you really never know till you go through you process with each unit.
JMO,
Rick
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