Auto finishes

Cue Crazy

Cue Crazy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm hoping that some of the fine folks here using auto finishes could give me their take on the different types as well as the different brands.

I have noticed some more reasonably priced finishes by the gallon that claim to be similar to PPG or dupont in quality. Since I'm just a struggling cue guy here, the price appeals to me more then spending over 200 bucks for the brand name to cover the simple conversions I'm doing now. Wondering If anyone Is using the stuff that sells for under 100 bucks? There was one on ebay and the feedback looks good on It.

I'm also open to thoughts on the name brand stuff, pricing, and acrylic verses urethane, or whatever other type there may be.

I'm looking for something that flashes well, sands and buffs out easily, but at the same time is hard enough that It will protect the wood without chipping out if the cue takes a hard hit.

I may Be asking too much out of a clear, My hope is to make things easier to deal with while finishing, and repair in the future, so hoping to get as much as I can out of the first kind I try out. It's just too expensive for a guy like Me on a budget to hop and skip around until I find one I like. Hoping to avoid some of that.:) Any input is welcome here. Thanks everyone, Greg
 
PPG is going to be one of the best. Cheapest I think sikkens or dupont nock off Omni clear is cheap. Dupont chromaclear works great as does PPG. Right now I am using Napa Martin Senor tec clear. One thing you will find it is not so much the price of the clear as it is how it is mixed and sprayed. Trade secret I use a touch of reducer in the last 3 coats. Flash times go with heat the colder it is the longer the flash. You want to look at the maximum thickness in mils that they recomend. You can spray more than that but it will chip and when it does you have a crater to fill.
 
The few times I have done any refinish work, I used U-tech from a family member. He's in paint and body, and it's hard to beat free (for me), but the only reason I used it was because he prefers it over anything he's used except for Dupont Chroma Premier. And there's a HUGE price difference between the two. I don't remember off the top of my head with line we used, but I'll check on it for you.
 
I use ppg on my cues as well as a uv finish. I have tried cheaper auto clearcoat before and was not happy with it. The price per cue is so low it is not worth trying to go cheap. You will likely only save a buck or two and will have a lower quality finish. Chris
 
I bought a qt of DuPont Snap Dry Clear & a 1/2 pt of activator, at a auto parts store. The price was $67 for the clear & $29 for the activator. My brother has an account there & he gets 60% off, so I put it on his account.
I use a touch-up or jam, spray gun at 30 pounds of pressure. I use 8 tablespoons of clear & 2 tablespoons of activator for a finished cue. I figure it casts me about $12, for the finish on each cue. The people at the auto shop tell me that DuPont makes a cheaper product, under the name of "Nason", that is just as good. I'm going to try it, after I use this Qt...JER
 
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Work

I've refinshed 100's of cues and I used PPG also. Very nice to work with but a little expensive. I have a lot of experience with clears as I do cars also. I strated useing an off brand if you will. A little getting used to but once i did I got a perfect finish and the pint of hardner and quart of clear together was like 27.00 instead of 80.00 for PPG. It's called Extreme made by Star Finishes. You will find that most nock off clears are made by the same company such as Sikkens and Dupont Etc... They just do not give you some of the luxuries that the expensive clears do. Dry time, Coating heavier Etc... At some point clear is clear, and if you get good at working with one don't switch. IMO:)
 
we be cheap

shakes said:
The few times I have done any refinish work, I used U-tech from a family member. He's in paint and body, and it's hard to beat free (for me), but the only reason I used it was because he prefers it over anything he's used except for Dupont Chroma Premier. And there's a HUGE price difference between the two. I don't remember off the top of my head with line we used, but I'll check on it for you.
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Do it right the first time why bother with cheap aftermarket finishs it will come back to bit you in the long run.i can never figure out why poeple are afriad to spend some money to do it right! i read about someone looking for a 200.00 cue lathe on here be real would you want you cue on a $200 lathe?
 
Hey Jer, I was thinking of trying "Nason" also. I may try to shoot some this weekend.
I saw your post on playing again. Good to see your ShOULDER IS HEALING.
 
I painted a honda accord with nason single stage and it was terrible. The paint faded and looked sandy within a year. I was going to sell it so I went cheap but got stuck with it for a while. I have not tried their clear but as said above why scrimp on the finish. I think you will find you get what you pay for in this area. Chris.
 
Good stuff here, please keep it going, but I would just add a few things here real quick, so You guys know where i'm coming from, My concerns & reason for changing. First, I don't want to give up quality for price, just that in some things I have found that the 2 don't always go hand in hand. I don't know this to be the case here, so that is why I'm asking, for sure though if I have no choice then what it costs is what it costs.;) I have been told of brands in the past that were off name, and suppose to be good quality. This info came from auto body guys too, i just don't remember the names of the products.
Everything I have heard though has mostly been what is being said here, either dupont or ppg. I am also curious about the hardness levels & the in's and outs of different types, sanding, buffing, besides the brand name I mean. Like which is easier to sand and buff, and what are the ins and outs. Just trying to further the conversation here, but like the finish I have been using that I mentioned in the super glue thread works really good, except it's just too soft to me. it's a clear lacquer, yet it stays clear somehow. I could sand It with nothing more then 400, then 600, and buff with a paper towel and it will shine right up. ofcoarse I would still have swirl marks & light scratches that would need to be taken out with finer paper and/or a compound or 2, but it still buffs out that easily for the most part. I'm curious how much different the auto finishes would be, or which would be similar to it as far as buffing goes. Laquer or acrylic, and why, i guess would be another question.:) The way I foresee it so far is, that everything seems to have It's good points and bad points, Just wondering if any of the auto finishes are the best of both worlds. Kind of like the differences in the stuff I have used most recently and using CA, I like the hardness of the ca, but the Lacquer is far an easier finish to work on & repair down the road, it's just not hard enough to keep someone from crushing the wood if they abuse the cue and it takes a really serious blow, it does not chip out out though, so really everything else is great. I'm not sure that many cues would hold up to the kind of blow I'm thinking of though, much less not have the finish chip out, although i may give in to that some to keep from crushing the wood, because. That's the only part I can't deal with besides the finish popping on it's own like with ca. otherwise for what I've seen in the last year i would be happy with it. the finish is much bettter then ca as far as looks though. really close to auto clear, just want something harder with the same qualities.

I really apprietiate everyones thoughts here, and please fell free to add anything else you guys can think of. I'm gonna make a run around town in a few days here and see what I find locally. I guess If I can find quarts then that may be the best way for me to go at first.

Thanks Greg
 
bish4201 said:
I've refinshed 100's of cues and I used PPG also. Very nice to work with but a little expensive. I have a lot of experience with clears as I do cars also. I strated useing an off brand if you will. A little getting used to but once i did I got a perfect finish and the pint of hardner and quart of clear together was like 27.00 instead of 80.00 for PPG. It's called Extreme made by Star Finishes. You will find that most nock off clears are made by the same company such as Sikkens and Dupont Etc... They just do not give you some of the luxuries that the expensive clears do. Dry time, Coating heavier Etc... At some point clear is clear, and if you get good at working with one don't switch. IMO:)
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Is this the stuff you mentioned? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AUTO...013QQitemZ230186712951QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Atleast there are no big claims in that add












Look at what all they compare this to though- compare what though price or quality?:D


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Extr...018QQitemZ280167891885QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
 
Cue Crazy said:
Good stuff here, please keep it going, but I would just add a few things here real quick, so You guys know where i'm coming from, My concerns & reason for changing. First, I don't want to give up quality for price, just that in some things I have found that the 2 don't always go hand in hand. I don't know this to be the case here, so that is why I'm asking, for sure though if I have no choice then what it costs is what it costs.;) I have been told of brands in the past that were off name, and suppose to be good quality. This info came from auto body guys too, i just don't remember the names of the products.
Everything I have heard though has mostly been what is being said here, either dupont or ppg. I am also curious about the hardness levels & the in's and outs of different types, sanding, buffing, besides the brand name I mean. Like which is easier to sand and buff, and what are the ins and outs. Just trying to further the conversation here, but like the finish I have been using that I mentioned in the super glue thread works really good, except it's just too soft to me. it's a clear lacquer, yet it stays clear somehow. I could sand It with nothing more then 400, then 600, and buff with a paper towel and it will shine right up. ofcoarse I would still have swirl marks & light scratches that would need to be taken out with finer paper and/or a compound or 2, but it still buffs out that easily for the most part. I'm curious how much different the auto finishes would be, or which would be similar to it as far as buffing goes. Laquer or acrylic, and why, i guess would be another question.:) The way I foresee it so far is, that everything seems to have It's good points and bad points, Just wondering if any of the auto finishes are the best of both worlds. Kind of like the differences in the stuff I have used most recently and using CA, I like the hardness of the ca, but the Lacquer is far an easier finish to work on & repair down the road, it's just not hard enough to keep someone from crushing the wood if they abuse the cue and it takes a really serious blow, it does not chip out out though, so really everything else is great. I'm not sure that many cues would hold up to the kind of blow I'm thinking of though, much less not have the finish chip out, although i may give in to that some to keep from crushing the wood, because. That's the only part I can't deal with besides the finish popping on it's own like with ca. otherwise for what I've seen in the last year i would be happy with it. the finish is much bettter then ca as far as looks though. really close to auto clear, just want something harder with the same qualities.

I really apprietiate everyones thoughts here, and please fell free to add anything else you guys can think of. I'm gonna make a run around town in a few days here and see what I find locally. I guess If I can find quarts then that may be the best way for me to go at first.

Thanks Greg
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I don't know of any popular clear finish that doesn't come in quart sizes. Many brands though the hardener doesn't come in real small sizes. Some brands smallest size is a pint. The resin lasts for a long time but the hardener has a very short shelf life.

Dick
 
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rhncue said:
I don't know of any popular clear finish that doesn't come in quart sizes. Many brands though the hardener doesn't come in real small sizes. Some brands smallest size is a pint. The resin lasts for a long time but the hardener has a very short shelf life.

Dick
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Thanks Dick, Yeah I should know that, I can remember the old napa here used to sell most of their finishes and paints in quarts, but that place is gone now, and the new napa, doesn't have all the paints the old one did, so i have to try this other place that the body guys go to. Really that probably is My best option, cause I'm never gonna use the hardener quick enough. even a pint of that may be too much for me right now, but that's alot less money atleast. I want quality first most, but hate throwing dollars away, so yes anything more then a quart is probably over kill. Greg
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
I bought a qt of DuPont Snap Dry Clear & a 1/2 pt of activator, at a auto parts store. The price was $67 for the clear & $29 for the activator. My brother has an account there & he gets 60% off, so I put it on his account.
I use a touch-up or jam, spray gun at 30 pounds of pressure. I use 8 tablespoons of clear & 2 tablespoons of activator for a finished cue. I figure it casts me about $12, for the finish on each cue. The people at the auto shop tell me that DuPont makes a cheaper product, under the name of "Nason", that is just as good. I'm going to try it, after I use this Qt...JER
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Thanks Jerry, My cousin runs a napa, and has for years, but i haven't seen him in a while to ask. Do you know if they carry the dupont or PPG? There was an old one here many years ago that had just about nothing but paints, but it's long since gone, and he has managed the last 2 locations over the last 20 something odd years ago. Since then i have never seen them in there, but didn't think to ask if he can get them for me last time i saw him. I'll find it here at another location for sure, but would probably be cheaper for me to run it through him like you did with your brother if they can order it, or have it in back.

I don't know if it was Nason or not, but I have had 2 body guys tell me the name of some stuff, and said it was just as good as dupont that they used it every day, and that it was much cheaper in price. That may have been what they were talking about, but not sure.

The name "National" keeps popping in My head for some reason, may not mean anything, but curious, is there any such brand by chance?

Greg
 
Laquer?? The last time I sprayed laquer it still had lead in it. How is the new env. friendly laquer? I used to love laquer quick flash hard polishes easy. When it gets dull just a quick polish and right back to go. Since laquer on a q is in the dark most of the time. Any one ever seen one spiderweb? Dad left me a 33 Plymouth coupe converted in to a gasser painted in 66 with hugger orange laquer and it still looks great but it sits in the garage.

Another thing they will not tell you at the paint store but works most of the time. you can mix a good hardner with a cheap clear as long as you are going laq to laq or urathane to urathane.
 
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I painted cars for 15 years.

The products at an automotive PAINT supplier are proven products. Use caution at an auto PARTS store unless you know exactly what you are looking for. The guys at the counter (paint store) have some knowledge, the sales rep. is the guy to talk to. Most don't have any knowledge with wood but thats ok, you know wood they know paint.

The easier the clear sands, the softer it is, and that is not a quality I like.

Clear the cue and let dry 8 hours (UV finishes have a shorter dry time), Sand with 400 or 600 grit until all the shiny spots are gone. This opens up the surface so the thinners can escape. Without heat (70 degrees) the clear needs to dry for an aditional 24 hours, minimum!!!!!! Heat will reduce the time needed. The clear should be dry for final sanding and polish. The longer the better. Full cure for any clear even UV's takes weeks even months.

If you are getting air bubbles, this can be the air escaping from the cue. Heat the cue before clearing so the air expands and purges. Spray the cue while it is cooling and the wood will "suck" in the clear or sealer. If you heat after clearing the air will expand, leaving little pin holes. I wait 4-6 hours before heating and never get pin holes.

Most Urethane clears mix 2/1, this is not set in stone. The paint companies have strict air quality guidelines. If the directions said to mix 1 part clear, 1 part hardner it would not pass. Some clears cure better if you don't follow the directions. Try Experimenting.

Most clears can be thinned. Using a thinner in clear makes it flow better but shrink more. The thinners evaporate causing more shrinkage than a non-thinned clear. Thinners can also cause lifting of materials under the clear.
 
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Cue Crazy said:
Thanks Jerry, My cousin runs a napa, and has for years, but i haven't seen him in a while to ask. Do you know if they carry the dupont or PPG? There was an old one here many years ago that had just about nothing but paints, but it's long since gone, and he has managed the last 2 locations over the last 20 something odd years ago. Since then i have never seen them in there, but didn't think to ask if he can get them for me last time i saw him. I'll find it here at another location for sure, but would probably be cheaper for me to run it through him like you did with your brother if they can order it, or have it in back.

I don't know if it was Nason or not, but I have had 2 body guys tell me the name of some stuff, and said it was just as good as dupont that they used it every day, and that it was much cheaper in price. That may have been what they were talking about, but not sure.

The name "National" keeps popping in My head for some reason, may not mean anything, but curious, is there any such brand by chance?

Greg
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Hi Greg; your store may or may not sell the paint you want, because if one store has that brand, the paint company won't let others in that area sell it. I buy my DuPont from a CAR QUEST store 20 miles away. They have a store here, but arn't allowed to sell DuPont products. They sell PPG...JER
 
hi greg
for what it's worth, another az'er turned me onto the clear that i have been using for two years now
he restores cars for a living
TRANSTAR MAX
about $95 to $105 a gallon with hardener
easy to use, buffs out beautifully
 
Thanks for the good info guys. I actually found 2 paint suppliers here in town, so one of them should have the goods, and I'll ask for their opinions as has been suggested here to Me.

Anyone know of a low cost water seperator that works well. Not sure I really want to make one if i could get a good enough price on something. Also need to get a small guage and valve/regulator to go inline at the gun if anyone knows of a deal on those.

Thanks Again, Greg
 
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