AZ 8 rated - Round Robin at Sweet Tooth Billiards

[Prince]

All I can say is Wow!

Moving from a system with 9 different ratings to a system with only 3 (ABC) would be worse than all the stupid people that recommend getting rid of ratings all together. I have no understanding of people that keep bagging on the rating system. If you have any concept of thought, it's SUPER easy to see how many more weekly tournaments there are in Arizona compared to other states. Many Many Many bars in the state are able to have tournaments every single week. They get many people in their establishment that actually spend money every week. Ratings protect bar owners, protect their tournaments, keep players coming into their bars. No ratings means top players come in, rob the tournament every week and shortly after lower rated players (people who spend more money) stop coming in to play or find other places to play. Shortly after that you have no tournaments. Hmm. Sounds pretty simple.....

I think Lenny is a 9 rated player. He is better than Jude, who is one of the strongest 8's in the state at times, but lacks consistency. Lenny is a 9 most days, and I'm not bagging on your game at all, but unfortunately for you at this point, are on the low end of the 9 rating. Imagine if we had an ABC format, you'd be an A player and would have to play even with every good 9 and all the 10's in the state. How often do you think you'd win tournaments?

Getting raised to a 9 has NOTHING to do with what you have won! NOTHING to do with how much money you won! NOTHING to do with gambling matches you have played. It has everything to do with how well you play. Patterns, Stroke, Knowledge, Ability, etc. I'm so sick of hearing people who got raised saying, "I got raised and I didn't even win anything!" That is like saying "I got a promotion at work without ever working overtime". Who cares? If you play better than 90% of the 8's and play even with many 9's, you are a 9.

I was raised to a 9 in May the day after Vegas. I didn't win anything. I played everyday for 3 weeks in a row before Vegas, 2 - 3 hours of quality play everyday, some days 8 - 10 hours or more. I beat many 9's and 10's at Alexander's and Metro. But I was raised to a 9 because of how I play. Yeah, it's hard to swallow for anyone who gets raised. Best thing to do is accept it and raise your game. I busted my butt after getting raised and knew I was going to win the AZBCA tournament. I even told Howerton before I came to the tournament that I was going to win it. I didn't want to be the weakest 9 in the state.

Reality is this. If you don't like the ratings, don't play in rated tournaments. If you think something should change with the ratings, show up at the next meeting. April 5th, Noon, Sweet Tooth Billiards, 43rd Ave & Peoria. Express your thoughts!

Wow, i'm not sure what to make of some of this. I'm gonna have to sit down and come up with some response. It's gonna take a while.

Dennis

 

[stuckart]

First let me start by saying that this is not a knock on Lenny at all.
Jerry, you are the only person in the entire state of Arizona who thinks Lenny is a 9 and you have never even played him. In 1 hole and 8 ball maybe but in any rotation game Lenny is not a 9. If you think Lenny is a better player than Jude then you are crazy. Who suggested that Lenny be raised to a 9??? I lost all respect for the rating the day that I heard Lenny got bumped. If Lenny is a 9 then he is the worst 9 in the state and the worst 9 I have ever played (other than Sammy). I am rating Lenny's rotation game though. In 1 pocket and 8 ball Lenny is a Solid 9 and possibly a 10 in 1 hole but 9 ball and 10 ball he is just an average 8 rated player. IMO there are a lot of other 8's that deserve to be bumped before Lenny.

A persons rating is based mainly on 8-ball, 9-ball or 10-ball. Whichever game they play the best. And on the table they play the best. If You agree that Lenny is a 9 in 8-ball then he is a 9. Rotation games are the rating for many people because that is there best game. I was raised to a 9 based on 8-ball on a barbox. I'm barely a good 8 in 9-ball on a big table. But we can't have different ratings for people on every game out there.

Side note: I didn't raise Lenny. Names were mentioned before the meeting began and I asked Ken if he was going to mention your name at the meeting. He said no. I mentioned your name to the committee and many different members chimed in. Not one person said, "No way, Lenny is only an 8". 5 or 6 people that all have seen him play voted confidently in the raise. The only opposed person was Ken.

 

[grindz]

Read this thread today...

and see that my name has made it onto this list. I'm not sure how that happened, but if the specifics get worked out, I may or may not attend. It just depends on how I feel that day, and if it's worth it to me. If anyone wants to take my spot before me, resulting from my lack of commitment, that's okay with me.

Apart from Mike, all you youngsters can woof all day. Just wait till AARP comes along I know of at least a dozen 8's (or under) around town that have the nuts against any of you. And NO, I won't out them!

As to the ratings... I appreciate the time, effort, and commitment that all on the review committee put forth. Thank you! And for all the lower rated players that this system helps to enjoy the game... I hope I can say thanks for them too.

Isn't the rating based on 8, or 9 ball ... best game.... best table?? Jerry?

td

 

[grindz]

oops,

sorry, I see Jerry already answered that.

td

 

[justabanger]

A persons rating is based mainly on 8-ball, 9-ball or 10-ball. Whichever game they play the best. And on the table they play the best. If You agree that Lenny is a 9 in 8-ball then he is a 9. Rotation games are the rating for many people because that is there best game. I was raised to a 9 based on 8-ball on a barbox. I'm barely a good 8 in 9-ball on a big table. But we can't have different ratings for people on every game out there.

Side note: I didn't raise Lenny. Names were mentioned before the meeting began and I asked Ken if he was going to mention your name at the meeting. He said no. I mentioned your name to the committee and many different members chimed in. Not one person said, "No way, Lenny is only an 8". 5 or 6 people that all have seen him play voted confidently in the raise. The only opposed person was Ken.

The way I heard it was that you brought up his name Jerry. Either way it don't matter to me and you can make Lenny a 10-2 or 11 or 12 or whatever you want to. I am just saying that I have played Lenny when he was a 7 and then an 8 and then a 9 and he got better but he is not a 9 and he should have never been a 7 either. Lenny is a solid 8 and when he is really in stroke maybe a really good 8 but he does not play that speed all the time and I am sure he would tell you the same. Everyone is capable of having a good day or week or month but that should not affect his rating cuz his level of play varies from day to day and sometimes hour to hour and even from shot to shot. Of these 5 or 6 people who say he is a 9 I would like to know if they have played him or seen his game over a period of time or is it based on what they heard from someone else. Lenny has quite a few videos of him playing and I have yet to see a video where he showed me that he was a 9. Go to www.ontherailtv.com and check out the video section and you tell me what you think! Lenny is very good at matching up and he gets the cash more often than not but I just do not see it and I think you made a mistake even bringing up his name and an even bigger mistake by raising him when he was just not there yet. Now Bernie Store is a 9 and has won count less tourney's and her getting raised made sense to me but Lenny getting raised was WRONG!!! Lenny is getting close and has his moments but he just is not there yet and I think he would agree with that. :thumbup:

 

[JasonCrugar]

well said stuckart

All I can say is Wow!

Moving from a system with 9 different ratings to a system with only 3 (ABC) would be worse than all the stupid people that recommend getting rid of ratings all together. I have no understanding of people that keep bagging on the rating system. If you have any concept of thought, it's SUPER easy to see how many more weekly tournaments there are in Arizona compared to other states. Many Many Many bars in the state are able to have tournaments every single week. They get many people in their establishment that actually spend money every week. Ratings protect bar owners, protect their tournaments, keep players coming into their bars. No ratings means top players come in, rob the tournament every week and shortly after lower rated players (people who spend more money) stop coming in to play or find other places to play. Shortly after that you have no tournaments. Hmm. Sounds pretty simple.....

I think Lenny is a 9 rated player. He is better than Jude, who is one of the strongest 8's in the state at times, but lacks consistency. Lenny is a 9 most days, and I'm not bagging on your game at all, but unfortunately for you at this point, are on the low end of the 9 rating. Imagine if we had an ABC format, you'd be an A player and would have to play even with every good 9 and all the 10's in the state. How often do you think you'd win tournaments?

Getting raised to a 9 has NOTHING to do with what you have won! NOTHING to do with how much money you won! NOTHING to do with gambling matches you have played. It has everything to do with how well you play. Patterns, Stroke, Knowledge, Ability, etc. I'm so sick of hearing people who got raised saying, "I got raised and I didn't even win anything!" That is like saying "I got a promotion at work without ever working overtime". Who cares? If you play better than 90% of the 8's and play even with many 9's, you are a 9.

I was raised to a 9 in May the day after Vegas. I didn't win anything. I played everyday for 3 weeks in a row before Vegas, 2 - 3 hours of quality play everyday, some days 8 - 10 hours or more. I beat many 9's and 10's at Alexander's and Metro. But I was raised to a 9 because of how I play. Yeah, it's hard to swallow for anyone who gets raised. Best thing to do is accept it and raise your game. I busted my butt after getting raised and knew I was going to win the AZBCA tournament. I even told Howerton before I came to the tournament that I was going to win it. I didn't want to be the weakest 9 in the state.

Reality is this. If you don't like the ratings, don't play in rated tournaments. If you think something should change with the ratings, show up at the next meeting. April 5th, Noon, Sweet Tooth Billiards, 43rd Ave & Peoria. Express your thoughts!

any questions?

 

[stuckart]

Jerry, I cant believe you have throw out insults to get your point across your not running for office. We are just discussing something.First, I woiuld like to know when you have ever seen me play in person. Second, I'm not asking to be raised.I could care less what I am rated. I dont play in tournys other than the all around. I play for the cash. I was just stating my opinion. I will play Lenny even for whatever you two can come up with. His onepocket game is a little stronger than mine other than that he has zero chance of beating me..... By the way can you make me a 10-2 at the next meeting it will not be able to attend

I apologize for the insults, but I wanted to make a point so people will actually read and understand the ratings. I get it, higher rated people are mad about ratings, feel it prevents people from getting better, etc., etc. I'm not on here to change your minds about the ratings. Because that won't happen, but maybe, just maybe, you can put yourself in Bar owners shoes.

I have seen ABC ratings in other states. They have barely any weekly tournaments if any at all.

I've seen you play in person about 4 or 5 times. And also on the stream. From what I've seen and what I've heard from other committee members is that you are a Very Strong 8 and are not very far off from being a 9. You get a ton of table time and play great competition all the time. Great for you! I haven't made any bets on your match with Ken, because I've only seen him play about 3 or 4 racks ever.

The rating committee doesn't raise people to unrealistic ratings. The 30+ committee members that contribute on their own time are out to put a great product out.

Jude, what is your best game on your best table? 9 ball on the big table? Do you think your 8-ball game is equal to Lenny's? And everyone says his 1-pocket game is of a strong 9 if not weak 10. I don't know, as I don't play 1 pocket.

 

[JasonCrugar]

after i play mike and tourny

The rating system was put in place to make all tournys are played even not to exclude better players. This sytem only hurts people that want to get better.If all players played even you we would have alot more champions coming out of az. If not get with the rest of the country and play abc. As for me and Ken that has been put off for a while, not my choice. So there is plenty of money for you and I'd play tomorrow. Tell me when and where. Also I will be happy to play everybody on that so called eight list including a few nines...........Lernny and the guy that bumped him!

anyone on that list huh??? i know for a fact at least two of us are dying to play you. you can get me or allaboutjr to play you whenever let me know . i would like to play after my grueling tourny day. jr you can get sooner . so there you have it choose the person you would like to donate to!

 

[stuckart]

First let me start by saying that this is not a knock on Lenny at all.
Jerry, you are the only person in the entire state of Arizona who thinks Lenny is a 9 and you have never even played him. In 1 hole and 8 ball maybe but in any rotation game Lenny is not a 9. If you think Lenny is a better player than Jude then you are crazy. Who suggested that Lenny be raised to a 9??? I lost all respect for the rating the day that I heard Lenny got bumped. If Lenny is a 9 then he is the worst 9 in the state and the worst 9 I have ever played (other than Sammy). I am rating Lenny's rotation game though. In 1 pocket and 8 ball Lenny is a Solid 9 and possibly a 10 in 1 hole but 9 ball and 10 ball he is just an average 8 rated player. IMO there are a lot of other 8's that deserve to be bumped before Lenny.

8 ball Lenny is a 9. You said it.

Many 9's or 10's in the state got to that rating on either 8 or 9 ball. They might not play that strong in the other game, but that is how it is. I'm forced to play as a 9 on big tables and in rotation games that I rarely ever play. It is what it is.

 

[JasonCrugar]

concerning lenny

8 ball Lenny is a 9. You said it.

Many 9's or 10's in the state got to that rating on either 8 or 9 ball. They might not play that strong in the other game, but that is how it is. I'm forced to play as a 9 on big tables and in rotation games that I rarely ever play. It is what it is.

didn't lenny openly admit he is a better all around player than his buddy who is a strong 9??????? i am not trying to bust anyone's game but he was one saying he is better all around player than his friend . if i remember correctly the said 9 admitted lenny was better all around???? correct me if i'm wrong but lenny kinda brought this to himself if you ask me. don't get me wrong as lenny is an awesome person and fun as hell to chat with and love the shi* outta the guy.

 

[justabanger]

my best game is sudden death 7 ball. do you have a rating for that??? So if I understand this right, if im a 10 in sudden death 7 ball but if I play 10 ball the 3 extra balls really make it hard for me but I would still be a 10 cuz in my best game I am a 10. I have played a few guys who are great at 8 ball and would be 10's but they are like a 7 or 8 in any of the rotation games.

 

[JasonCrugar]

my best game is sudden death 7 ball. do you have a rating for that??? So if I understand this right, if im a 10 in sudden death 7 ball but if I play 10 ball the 3 extra balls really make it hard for me but I would still be a 10 cuz in my best game I am a 10. I have played a few guys who are great at 8 ball and would be 10's but they are like a 7 or 8 in any of the rotation games.

best game among the listed games lol i am a monster 7 ball player myself justabanger.

 

[BRKNRUN]

The rating system was put in place to make all tournys are played even not to exclude better players. This sytem only hurts people that want to get better.If all players played even you we would have alot more champions coming out of az. If not get with the rest of the country and play abc. As for me and Ken that has been put off for a while, not my choice. So there is plenty of money for you and I'd play tomorrow. Tell me when and where. Also I will be happy to play everybody on that so called eight list including a few nines...........Lernny and the guy that bumped him!

I am the weakest 9 in the valley....Am I included on your list?

 

[JasonCrugar]

if so

I am the weakest 9 in the valley....Am I included on your list?

if you are included ken i will back you for half the set.

 

[justabanger]

any questions?

I have one question. Can you please make the Round Robin on the BIG tables and we will see if your game is as good as you say it is. You say you are going to win but if Jerry drilled you when he got back from Wisconsin then you can't be that good. No offense Jerry. I have not played since Lenny drilled me but you and allaboutjr can get played any time you would like but not on the kiddie tables.

 

[JasonCrugar]

who said he drilled me?

I have one question. Can you please make the Round Robin on the BIG tables and we will see if your game is as good as you say it is. You say you are going to win but if Jerry drilled you when he got back from Wisconsin then you can't be that good. No offense Jerry. I have not played since Lenny drilled me but you and allaboutjr can get played any time you would like but not on the kiddie tables.

who said that he drilled me? he beat me in bar table 8 ball as i dont care for bar table 8 ball. i could have easily won that match had i prepared. and the 10 ball we were dead even after how many hours????? i am playing alot better now and jerry knows he has me any day on any table. i think i gave him 4 or 5 three ball outs. big tables i would have beat him had we had more time. when we finished i had won 7 out of 8 games and was only gainin momentum. so that's drilling me then i have been drilled alot. allaboutjr and i will flip to see who plays how about that? either one of us wins.

 

[JasonCrugar]

please please

I have one question. Can you please make the Round Robin on the BIG tables and we will see if your game is as good as you say it is. You say you are going to win but if Jerry drilled you when he got back from Wisconsin then you can't be that good. No offense Jerry. I have not played since Lenny drilled me but you and allaboutjr can get played any time you would like but not on the kiddie tables.

PLEASE MAKE THIS ON THE BIG TABLES . I DON'T WANT ANY LAME EXCUSES THAT THE TABLE OR THE GAME WAS THE PROBLEM. PEOPLE IN AZ'S PROBLEM IS THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY WHEN THEY LOSE. THEY BLAME IT ON EVERYTHING ELSE. IF I GET OUTPLAYED ILL BUY THE GUY A DRINK AND WISH HIM WELL. TOO AFRAID TO LOSE IS THE ISSUE. DON'T BE AFRAID BOYS ... I'LL PLAY NICE

 

[grindz]

Hey Lenny..........

are you following this? LOL It looks like there is an abundance of title seekers here in a woof fest to take your title.

td



And NO, I'm not one of them.

 

[justabanger]

who said that he drilled me? he beat me in bar table 8 ball as i dont care for bar table 8 ball. i could have easily won that match had i prepared. and the 10 ball we were dead even after how many hours????? i am playing alot better now and jerry knows he has me any day on any table. i think i gave him 4 or 5 three ball outs. big tables i would have beat him had we had more time. when we finished i had won 7 out of 8 games and was only gainin momentum. so that's drilling me then i have been drilled alot. allaboutjr and i will flip to see who plays how about that? either one of us wins.

He said he drilled you in the chat but I may be wrong but I am 100% sure he said he won easily. Just make sure we are not playing for peanuts or v-cash. Bring a pocket full of cash and I will do the same and we can play til one of us is busted. :thumbup:

 

[BRKNRUN]

All I can say is Wow!

Moving from a system with 9 different ratings to a system with only 3 (ABC) would be worse than all the stupid people that recommend getting rid of ratings all together. I have no understanding of people that keep bagging on the rating system. If you have any concept of thought, it's SUPER easy to see how many more weekly tournaments there are in Arizona compared to other states. Many Many Many bars in the state are able to have tournaments every single week. They get many people in their establishment that actually spend money every week. Ratings protect bar owners, protect their tournaments, keep players coming into their bars. No ratings means top players come in, rob the tournament every week and shortly after lower rated players (people who spend more money) stop coming in to play or find other places to play. Shortly after that you have no tournaments. Hmm. Sounds pretty simple.....

I think Lenny is a 9 rated player. He is better than Jude, who is one of the strongest 8's in the state at times, but lacks consistency. Lenny is a 9 most days, and I'm not bagging on your game at all, but unfortunately for you at this point, are on the low end of the 9 rating. Imagine if we had an ABC format, you'd be an A player and would have to play even with every good 9 and all the 10's in the state. How often do you think you'd win tournaments?

Getting raised to a 9 has NOTHING to do with what you have won! NOTHING to do with how much money you won! NOTHING to do with gambling matches you have played. It has everything to do with how well you play. Patterns, Stroke, Knowledge, Ability, etc. I'm so sick of hearing people who got raised saying, "I got raised and I didn't even win anything!" That is like saying "I got a promotion at work without ever working overtime". Who cares? If you play better than 90% of the 8's and play even with many 9's, you are a 9.

I was raised to a 9 in May the day after Vegas. I didn't win anything. I played everyday for 3 weeks in a row before Vegas, 2 - 3 hours of quality play everyday, some days 8 - 10 hours or more. I beat many 9's and 10's at Alexander's and Metro. But I was raised to a 9 because of how I play. Yeah, it's hard to swallow for anyone who gets raised. Best thing to do is accept it and raise your game. I busted my butt after getting raised and knew I was going to win the AZBCA tournament. I even told Howerton before I came to the tournament that I was going to win it. I didn't want to be the weakest 9 in the state.

Reality is this. If you don't like the ratings, don't play in rated tournaments. If you think something should change with the ratings, show up at the next meeting. April 5th, Noon, Sweet Tooth Billiards, 43rd Ave & Peoria. Express your thoughts!

We need to sit down and talk.....I have some ideas that would change your mind about an ABC system....and it would also NOT make the ratings commitee "defunct" - (which IMO is one of the main reasons why the comittee does not like the idea of an ABC system)