AZ Open 10ball Tournamnet......
- Thread starter The Renfro
- Start date
Jerry Forsyth
Well-known member
Of course I would love to see this happen. And I would also like to see it happen at Sandcastle so that all can watch the tournament for free. The problem we have with the concept is a chicken and egg thing. When we started a pro player fund some years ago we got a lot of support for it on the forums and then no money ever came in. We need to raise a minimum of $25,000 in added money in order to get the top names there and to make it a true pro tournament. And that is a lot of dough. AZB can pay for the production expense but we still need prize money.
Any suggestions on this? If we put out a Paypal address and only raise a small amount of money like $5-10K then we have a book-keeping nightmare as we would have to refund all those donations and the folks will not be happy to have their money returned less the Paypal fees and get nothing for their donations.
What We need is an idea that will make sure we have the funds to do this before we start investing all the hours and energy that could just go to waste. A guarantor "angel investor" who could have any income streams from the event would be great, I just do not know who that would be. Don't even think about pay-per-view as an income stream. For one thing, it isn't. Pay per view does not generate enough cash to even be a starter and it denies most fans the ability to see the event. And the advertisers on the free stream are how we pay the production costs for the event.
Somebody out there is smart enough to figure out how we can do this. Come on and give us your ideas!
Any suggestions on this? If we put out a Paypal address and only raise a small amount of money like $5-10K then we have a book-keeping nightmare as we would have to refund all those donations and the folks will not be happy to have their money returned less the Paypal fees and get nothing for their donations.
What We need is an idea that will make sure we have the funds to do this before we start investing all the hours and energy that could just go to waste. A guarantor "angel investor" who could have any income streams from the event would be great, I just do not know who that would be. Don't even think about pay-per-view as an income stream. For one thing, it isn't. Pay per view does not generate enough cash to even be a starter and it denies most fans the ability to see the event. And the advertisers on the free stream are how we pay the production costs for the event.
Somebody out there is smart enough to figure out how we can do this. Come on and give us your ideas!
Nice...traction!
This is a fantastic idea!!
Although I don't have any experience or a reputation on here, I would like to put my .02 worth into the concept.
1) I love 10-ball and it seems to be gaining attention world-wide as the pool game to play.
2) I like the idea of alternate breaking...if I played, I would at least like to make it to the table every other break for 1 shot!!
3) Races to 7 sound fair to me
4) I like the idea of only AZ members only, although if a 2 tier tournament could be coordinated I think it would draw a bigger crowd or provide an opportunity to watch Pros play when not at the table.
5) I think a free stream for contributers right through to the finals would be a must, but I don't know what kind of nightmare this would create for the streamer.
6) I don't think this should be a monthly event, that would require full time staff to continue to coordinate and with most regular events, interest could wain and the event would die. A yearly event provides a date that all can look forward to and not want to miss.
7) And finally...I don't see an problem with letting the event float around the country, but rewarding a location that is dedicated to the sport and continueing to develop (like Sandcastles) would allow for improvements from year to year and reward Sandman for his efforts.
Ok...maybe that was .05 worth, but I still love the idea.
Jason
Although I don't have any experience or a reputation on here, I would like to put my .02 worth into the concept.
1) I love 10-ball and it seems to be gaining attention world-wide as the pool game to play.
2) I like the idea of alternate breaking...if I played, I would at least like to make it to the table every other break for 1 shot!!
3) Races to 7 sound fair to me
4) I like the idea of only AZ members only, although if a 2 tier tournament could be coordinated I think it would draw a bigger crowd or provide an opportunity to watch Pros play when not at the table.
5) I think a free stream for contributers right through to the finals would be a must, but I don't know what kind of nightmare this would create for the streamer.
6) I don't think this should be a monthly event, that would require full time staff to continue to coordinate and with most regular events, interest could wain and the event would die. A yearly event provides a date that all can look forward to and not want to miss.
7) And finally...I don't see an problem with letting the event float around the country, but rewarding a location that is dedicated to the sport and continueing to develop (like Sandcastles) would allow for improvements from year to year and reward Sandman for his efforts.
Ok...maybe that was .05 worth, but I still love the idea.
Jason
My thoughts:
Game: WPA rules 10-ball. (call shot only, no return option on misses - as in NOT SBE rules)
One Pocket would be good as well - but it definitely attracts an entirely different crowd. Perhaps if this event goes well, then a 1P could be another event, maybe parallel, but I'm not sure it would work to start off a new event.
I didn't really get the impression that this would be a pro event (maybe I mis-read the OP's intention), but I suppose the pros that are *active* members of this forum could be eligible ... however, as 12Squared and Neil noted - if this is going to be funded and populated by AZB members, what is the real incentive if we'll have to deal with pros. I think this aspect needs to be clarified as soon as possible before we go any further.
In any case, I like the idea of regional qualifiers to get to the big event; although it does significantly complicate the entire process.
Game: WPA rules 10-ball. (call shot only, no return option on misses - as in NOT SBE rules)
One Pocket would be good as well - but it definitely attracts an entirely different crowd. Perhaps if this event goes well, then a 1P could be another event, maybe parallel, but I'm not sure it would work to start off a new event.
I didn't really get the impression that this would be a pro event (maybe I mis-read the OP's intention), but I suppose the pros that are *active* members of this forum could be eligible ... however, as 12Squared and Neil noted - if this is going to be funded and populated by AZB members, what is the real incentive if we'll have to deal with pros. I think this aspect needs to be clarified as soon as possible before we go any further.
In any case, I like the idea of regional qualifiers to get to the big event; although it does significantly complicate the entire process.
I like the idea of 'pro' players doing an exhibition. Perhaps the ABP will donate a few players.
Several bones of contention.......
Jerry I don't think bookkeeping is needed as the donations would go in the fund and if it takes 2 years to get 25k then the tournament will happen next year and not this year.....
As far as it being an Open event.. IE... Pro players involved.... That's where the interest is for streaming..... Sine we won't have a travel fund and since the event likely will be far from many AZers then the field would have to be the guys that travel to tournaments for a living....... IE Pro Players......
I'd be kinda bummed if I had tossed in my bucks and turned on the stream to get to watch Neil and Lou battling it out..... Nothing against either of them but if I am watching a stream I want to see SVB, Morra, Appleton etc.....
And in a race to 7 I like my chances against a pro over a race to 9 or 11... It sure the hell won't be 0%..... And maybe it should be on diamond barboxes to add to the upset chances.... Race to 7 lots of guys can catch fire for a set and beat anyone.....
Extending the idea tho if AZers would be more interested in donating to a regional fund and then having B level tourneys for AZers only we could have the start of a mini tour........
Just setup different paypal accounts for the different regions. If most AZers would not be interested in getting behind what could be a signature pro stop.....
I might want to Gerrymander the southeast region to exclude Atlanta, Most of NC, FL and Nashville so I would feel like I had a shot at it LOL
Jerry I don't think bookkeeping is needed as the donations would go in the fund and if it takes 2 years to get 25k then the tournament will happen next year and not this year.....
As far as it being an Open event.. IE... Pro players involved.... That's where the interest is for streaming..... Sine we won't have a travel fund and since the event likely will be far from many AZers then the field would have to be the guys that travel to tournaments for a living....... IE Pro Players......
I'd be kinda bummed if I had tossed in my bucks and turned on the stream to get to watch Neil and Lou battling it out..... Nothing against either of them but if I am watching a stream I want to see SVB, Morra, Appleton etc.....
And in a race to 7 I like my chances against a pro over a race to 9 or 11... It sure the hell won't be 0%..... And maybe it should be on diamond barboxes to add to the upset chances.... Race to 7 lots of guys can catch fire for a set and beat anyone.....
Extending the idea tho if AZers would be more interested in donating to a regional fund and then having B level tourneys for AZers only we could have the start of a mini tour........
Just setup different paypal accounts for the different regions. If most AZers would not be interested in getting behind what could be a signature pro stop.....
I might want to Gerrymander the southeast region to exclude Atlanta, Most of NC, FL and Nashville so I would feel like I had a shot at it LOL
My worthless .02:
1. One event at a time to start. Let's do ONE and then evaluate. Correct some things. Streamline some things. Go from there. Eventually I could see this being a seasonal thing. As in the AZB Fall Classic, Winter Classic, Summer Classic and Spring....you guessed it....Classic.
1A: Could this be piggybacked onto the DCC and the Tunica event somehow?
2. An amateur tournament and a Pro Invitational. Keep the Pro tourney small, as in 8 or 16 players. Pay the top 2 only for a bigger cash prize. Maybe we could still draw enough pro's, who can generate side action for the weekend, despite the limited number of tournament payouts for them.
Bonus event: the winner of the Amateur event plays the winner of the Pro Invitational in a bragging rights only match. You KNOW the amateur would eat up having the chance. Surely at an event like this a Pro wouldn't mind taking an hour of their time out for a friendly competition. Maybe even work out a handicap based on the Amateur winner's display in their earlier tournament.
3. I like the idea of a AZ online poll system for what the games will be. Perhaps a tiered system.
First poll: What game? (ie. 8, 9, 10 ball, 14.1, 1 pocket or Banks, etc.)
2nd poll (only after deciding the above topic): Length of match, plus elimination details (ie. Race to 7, double elimination, etc.)
3rd poll: what rule set
4. Get as many vendors and manufacturer's as possible to donate door prizes for the amateurs.
Examples: winner of event gets a cue
2nd place gets a shaft
3rd - 8th gets a case
9th - 16th chooses a pool DVD
17th - rest of field gets some small pool accessory
Have the vendors and manufacturer's send as much Point of Sale material, etc. as they like. Banners. Signs. Business cards. Giveaway bags. Etc. That way the stuff can be spread out amongst the establishment, without having to rent a convention hall. They get their name out there. The players earn some prizes. Maybe even get a few small nic nacks for free. They also figure out where they might make their future purchases.
5. Work out a pay-to-play system. As in, I'm in for $20 to get a West Coast event off the ground. I'm in Arkansas. I'd never be there. But, by chipping in, I earn the right to play at the Fall Classic (or whatever) in Memphis, Tulsa, Cape Girardeau.....whereever is closest to me. And I'd be willing to pay a reasonable tourney entry fee at the door as well, which would go in with the donated pot from pool lovers around the country, who are earning the right to play at the next AZB Classic in THEIR area.
6. An online contest. Anyone who donates to the competition and signs up for the contest (thereby saying they'll be at the event as a player or spectator) wins 1-2 hours of free instruction by a Pro or a BCA instructor during the weekend. If we have 5 Pro's/BCA instructors committed.....draw 5 names. If someone doesn't show up for the weekend, just draw a winner from someone who's in-house for the event.
7. Now that I think about it.....a youth tournament would be nice too. 17 and under. But, they'd only be allowed to play in 1 tournament. As in, if you have a great 16 year old player, they could play in the Amateur tourney, but not the Youth one. If they elect to play in the Youth, they're not eligible for the Amateur.
There are limitless ideas that could be thrown out there.
I'm only a step or 2 above a banger, but I LOVE this game. And I'm also not a rich man, but I'm in for $20.
1. One event at a time to start. Let's do ONE and then evaluate. Correct some things. Streamline some things. Go from there. Eventually I could see this being a seasonal thing. As in the AZB Fall Classic, Winter Classic, Summer Classic and Spring....you guessed it....Classic.
1A: Could this be piggybacked onto the DCC and the Tunica event somehow?
2. An amateur tournament and a Pro Invitational. Keep the Pro tourney small, as in 8 or 16 players. Pay the top 2 only for a bigger cash prize. Maybe we could still draw enough pro's, who can generate side action for the weekend, despite the limited number of tournament payouts for them.
Bonus event: the winner of the Amateur event plays the winner of the Pro Invitational in a bragging rights only match. You KNOW the amateur would eat up having the chance. Surely at an event like this a Pro wouldn't mind taking an hour of their time out for a friendly competition. Maybe even work out a handicap based on the Amateur winner's display in their earlier tournament.
3. I like the idea of a AZ online poll system for what the games will be. Perhaps a tiered system.
First poll: What game? (ie. 8, 9, 10 ball, 14.1, 1 pocket or Banks, etc.)
2nd poll (only after deciding the above topic): Length of match, plus elimination details (ie. Race to 7, double elimination, etc.)
3rd poll: what rule set
4. Get as many vendors and manufacturer's as possible to donate door prizes for the amateurs.
Examples: winner of event gets a cue
2nd place gets a shaft
3rd - 8th gets a case
9th - 16th chooses a pool DVD
17th - rest of field gets some small pool accessory
Have the vendors and manufacturer's send as much Point of Sale material, etc. as they like. Banners. Signs. Business cards. Giveaway bags. Etc. That way the stuff can be spread out amongst the establishment, without having to rent a convention hall. They get their name out there. The players earn some prizes. Maybe even get a few small nic nacks for free. They also figure out where they might make their future purchases.
5. Work out a pay-to-play system. As in, I'm in for $20 to get a West Coast event off the ground. I'm in Arkansas. I'd never be there. But, by chipping in, I earn the right to play at the Fall Classic (or whatever) in Memphis, Tulsa, Cape Girardeau.....whereever is closest to me. And I'd be willing to pay a reasonable tourney entry fee at the door as well, which would go in with the donated pot from pool lovers around the country, who are earning the right to play at the next AZB Classic in THEIR area.
6. An online contest. Anyone who donates to the competition and signs up for the contest (thereby saying they'll be at the event as a player or spectator) wins 1-2 hours of free instruction by a Pro or a BCA instructor during the weekend. If we have 5 Pro's/BCA instructors committed.....draw 5 names. If someone doesn't show up for the weekend, just draw a winner from someone who's in-house for the event.
7. Now that I think about it.....a youth tournament would be nice too. 17 and under. But, they'd only be allowed to play in 1 tournament. As in, if you have a great 16 year old player, they could play in the Amateur tourney, but not the Youth one. If they elect to play in the Youth, they're not eligible for the Amateur.
There are limitless ideas that could be thrown out there.
I'm only a step or 2 above a banger, but I LOVE this game. And I'm also not a rich man, but I'm in for $20.
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I like everything you just said ... but a few points:
I'm not sure we'll get enough interest from sponsors/suppliers to handle all the prizes you mentioned, cue, shaft, dvds, etc - but that would be certainly be pretty cool if it happened. Although, I'd think most players really have no interest in winning a cue for winning a tournament; afterall - they already have a cue - what are they gonna do with another one? Most would probably sell it. Just being honest. I did once see, at a trickshot championship, someone give their prize-cue to a young kid in the audience though, that was really something awesome.
I love point #5, and I think we're going to do an AZB-specific event, that type of entry restriction will have to be mandatory.
#1A - I do not think this should be piggy-backed onto the DCC/TC though. Those events are huge enough and already complicated enough. From what I've read, most AZers, after leaving DCC are totally exhausted and I'm not sure we'd get the support the following week (let's suppose) for another event.
I'm not sure we'll get enough interest from sponsors/suppliers to handle all the prizes you mentioned, cue, shaft, dvds, etc - but that would be certainly be pretty cool if it happened. Although, I'd think most players really have no interest in winning a cue for winning a tournament; afterall - they already have a cue - what are they gonna do with another one? Most would probably sell it. Just being honest. I did once see, at a trickshot championship, someone give their prize-cue to a young kid in the audience though, that was really something awesome.
I love point #5, and I think we're going to do an AZB-specific event, that type of entry restriction will have to be mandatory.
#1A - I do not think this should be piggy-backed onto the DCC/TC though. Those events are huge enough and already complicated enough. From what I've read, most AZers, after leaving DCC are totally exhausted and I'm not sure we'd get the support the following week (let's suppose) for another event.
Jerry, I don't really think it would be the end of the world if we raised $5-$10K for an event. It wouldn't be a points event right off the bat, but lets start small and see where it goes.
A $5-$10K added event on the East Coast would fill 64 spots pretty quickly. And with Pat streaming and you & Al behind the mic, I think we would have a great stream for everyone.
After we put the event together once, I would think it would be easier to get people interested for the next one.
Mike
A $5-$10K added event on the East Coast would fill 64 spots pretty quickly. And with Pat streaming and you & Al behind the mic, I think we would have a great stream for everyone.
After we put the event together once, I would think it would be easier to get people interested for the next one.
Mike
Neil actually at this point in the game I think all suggestions are welcome... While I would not mind to see something for AZers only I just don't know that we could settle on a location where we would mobilize to show up.... I know If it's too far west or North I likely would be one of the donors watching the stream.....
There are many paths that can be walked... In my imagination I could see An AZB league formed at some point and going up against the APA.... Yeah that one is a stretch but since the industry isn't doing anything maybe it's time we did from a grass roots effort......
Why not have both - the AZers get to have a side tournament - no pros allowed. Then AZ winners at certain levels could jump into the main event.
And some of the AZ matches could be streamed for kicks.
Hello all! Back from hiatus. LOL
Hello all! Back from hiatus as I've been working on a couple projects and unable to relax with some pleasure reading on here.
Well, I'm blowing the dust off this thread and bringing it out of the back burner. :thumbup:
Renfro - So nice to finally meet you in person. You're a good person and a great contributor to the sport! Thank You!
Jerry Forsyth - as the slow summer season for pool rolls in, I will have more time to focus on this type of a project. Let's do this!
When we were all discussing this possibility, Pat Fleming was also working on the first "Make It Happen" event and I did not want any type of conflict of interest so I put things on pause and joined in promoting the 8-Ball Make it Happen Invitational. As you all know, that was a huge success AND the 2nd Make It Happen event of One-Pocket was also an incredible event!
Thank you to all those who made it possible - the value of your support is IMMESURABLE!!! Thanks again!
Well, Pat Fleming is on board with whatever I can put together and I tease him about challenging him to see who can raise more funds for an event (another amazing pro event I'm working on behind the scenes) whether it is the loyal Accu-Stats viewers or YOU AZBilliards members.
Although Accu-Stats viewers and supporters have already proven themselves (and continue to do so) with the "Make It happen" events,
I HAVE FAITH IN ALL OF YOU HERE ON AZBILLIARDS to do just as well or even better!!!
Let's iron out the details on this thread for the first annual "AZBILLIARDS 10 Ball Open" and I will start a new thread soon announcing the name and details of the pro event I've been talking to select World Champion players and Living Legends about. I've got commitments from many - just a couple more to confirm with before I officially announce it.
Back to the "AZB 10 Ball Open"....
I spoke with Allen Hopkins and it is confirmed that the SBE will be held in Edison, NJ again in 2014. (March 13th-16th)
Another Accu-Stats "M.I.H." event may occur around that time as well either the week before or after the SBE.
How about we hold the 1st Annual "AZB 10 Ball Open" the opposite week of the "MIH" to save on travel expenses since so many people will already be in the area? Your thoughts???
I will also be hosting a Mezz Cues tour stop around that time as well. It will be a PACKED 2 weeks of a POOL PLAYER'S PARADISE with events to enjoy!
Help me fill in the blanks…
How many players do we want to allow? Cut off at 64?
Date: Monday March 10th & Tuesday March 11th 2014 before the SBE as a warm-up? (2 day event obviously)
Tournament Director should be _________ ?
Entry fee should be $120.00? ($20 green fees will cover the 2-days & $100 goes to the prize fund)
Must be registered by ________? (PayPal fund or in person)
Double elimination? Races to 7 on both sides OR 7 on winners’ and 5 on losers’ side?
I STRONGLY suggest OFFICIAL WPA 10 Ball Rules.
Alternate breaks? Winner Breaks?
What other specifics?
We have the time now to plan ahead and get this started.
FYI: The 10 foot Diamond table currently at Sandcastle Billiards will be replaced with a standard 9 foot Diamond Pro-Am table for the live streamed featured TV table.
Hello all! Back from hiatus as I've been working on a couple projects and unable to relax with some pleasure reading on here.
Well, I'm blowing the dust off this thread and bringing it out of the back burner. :thumbup:
Renfro - So nice to finally meet you in person. You're a good person and a great contributor to the sport! Thank You!
Jerry Forsyth - as the slow summer season for pool rolls in, I will have more time to focus on this type of a project. Let's do this!
When we were all discussing this possibility, Pat Fleming was also working on the first "Make It Happen" event and I did not want any type of conflict of interest so I put things on pause and joined in promoting the 8-Ball Make it Happen Invitational. As you all know, that was a huge success AND the 2nd Make It Happen event of One-Pocket was also an incredible event!
Thank you to all those who made it possible - the value of your support is IMMESURABLE!!! Thanks again!
Well, Pat Fleming is on board with whatever I can put together and I tease him about challenging him to see who can raise more funds for an event (another amazing pro event I'm working on behind the scenes) whether it is the loyal Accu-Stats viewers or YOU AZBilliards members.
Although Accu-Stats viewers and supporters have already proven themselves (and continue to do so) with the "Make It happen" events,
I HAVE FAITH IN ALL OF YOU HERE ON AZBILLIARDS to do just as well or even better!!!
Let's iron out the details on this thread for the first annual "AZBILLIARDS 10 Ball Open" and I will start a new thread soon announcing the name and details of the pro event I've been talking to select World Champion players and Living Legends about. I've got commitments from many - just a couple more to confirm with before I officially announce it.
Back to the "AZB 10 Ball Open"....
I spoke with Allen Hopkins and it is confirmed that the SBE will be held in Edison, NJ again in 2014. (March 13th-16th)
Another Accu-Stats "M.I.H." event may occur around that time as well either the week before or after the SBE.
How about we hold the 1st Annual "AZB 10 Ball Open" the opposite week of the "MIH" to save on travel expenses since so many people will already be in the area? Your thoughts???
I will also be hosting a Mezz Cues tour stop around that time as well. It will be a PACKED 2 weeks of a POOL PLAYER'S PARADISE with events to enjoy!
Help me fill in the blanks…
How many players do we want to allow? Cut off at 64?
Date: Monday March 10th & Tuesday March 11th 2014 before the SBE as a warm-up? (2 day event obviously)
Tournament Director should be _________ ?
Entry fee should be $120.00? ($20 green fees will cover the 2-days & $100 goes to the prize fund)
Must be registered by ________? (PayPal fund or in person)
Double elimination? Races to 7 on both sides OR 7 on winners’ and 5 on losers’ side?
I STRONGLY suggest OFFICIAL WPA 10 Ball Rules.
Alternate breaks? Winner Breaks?
What other specifics?
We have the time now to plan ahead and get this started.
FYI: The 10 foot Diamond table currently at Sandcastle Billiards will be replaced with a standard 9 foot Diamond Pro-Am table for the live streamed featured TV table.
Ed!!!!
Was great to finally meet you as well...
I am a little embarrassed that I let the thread drop as well... I ended up with Typhoid fever last spring and Feb-June is pretty much a blank in my memory banks thanks to some seriously high fevers....
With Mike, Jerry and Pat on board with you I will try and get my mind back around the idea and see what I can throw out and what sticks....
If we have a venue, and dates then a huge portion of the details are handled... Now we have to see what we need todo as a community and decide what a fair return for different donation levels are.... If the donations do come voluntarily based upon people finding useful posts and opinions maybe the return was taken care of and a shout out and the ability to watch the stream is just cake....
I can see we will need to definitely limit the field to something a little smaller than a US Open, CSI event or Diamond event... 2 day tournament would likely at most be 64 players....
Would this be an AZ Amateur or Open?? If it is Open would we want to designate several spots for qualifiers and see if the AZ community in some areas wants to send out their champion???
What about something new... Joe Tucker shows up and posts on AZ when his schedule lets him... What about American Rotation as the game?
Damnit man!!! Just when my wheels had stopped turning you jog my memory.....
Chris
Was great to finally meet you as well...
I am a little embarrassed that I let the thread drop as well... I ended up with Typhoid fever last spring and Feb-June is pretty much a blank in my memory banks thanks to some seriously high fevers....
With Mike, Jerry and Pat on board with you I will try and get my mind back around the idea and see what I can throw out and what sticks....
If we have a venue, and dates then a huge portion of the details are handled... Now we have to see what we need todo as a community and decide what a fair return for different donation levels are.... If the donations do come voluntarily based upon people finding useful posts and opinions maybe the return was taken care of and a shout out and the ability to watch the stream is just cake....
I can see we will need to definitely limit the field to something a little smaller than a US Open, CSI event or Diamond event... 2 day tournament would likely at most be 64 players....
Would this be an AZ Amateur or Open?? If it is Open would we want to designate several spots for qualifiers and see if the AZ community in some areas wants to send out their champion???
What about something new... Joe Tucker shows up and posts on AZ when his schedule lets him... What about American Rotation as the game?
Damnit man!!! Just when my wheels had stopped turning you jog my memory.....
Chris