Back hand english

[Bluewolf]

Drivermaker several times referred to this in the deflection thread so thought it would be nice to hear about it in its own thread.

The only experience I have with this is in the case where a person is putting unintentional backhand english due to a stroke irregularity.

As far as doing this intentionally, am curious how this is done and how it is of benefit as opposed to doing english the regular way.

Laura

 

[drivermaker]

Drivermaker several times referred to this in the deflection thread so thought it would be nice to hear about it in its own thread.

The only experience I have with this is in the case where a person is putting unintentional backhand english due to a stroke irregularity.

As far as doing this intentionally, am curious how this is done and how it is of benefit as opposed to doing english the regular way.

Laura

Laura...I told how to do it in the Deflection issue thread. Do it just as I've laid it out in the post. If anyone else has something to add, welcome.
Otherwise, if you ain't gettin' it, PM or email me. Do you have a table at home?

 

[Troy]

Back-hand english has been discussed numerous times both here and on the CCB.
Aim center ball as usual, then move your BACK HAND (the hand providing the stroke) left or right pivoting around the bridge to obtain the desired amount of english. Do NOT change your aim.
The benefit is that back-hand english compensates for squirt.

Troy

Drivermaker several times referred to this in the deflection thread so thought it would be nice to hear about it in its own thread.

The only experience I have with this is in the case where a person is putting unintentional backhand english due to a stroke irregularity.

As far as doing this intentionally, am curious how this is done and how it is of benefit as opposed to doing english the regular way.

Laura

 

[drivermaker]

Back-hand english has been discussed numerous times both here and on the CCB.
Aim center ball as usual, then move your BACK HAND (the hand providing the stroke) left or right pivoting around the bridge to obtain the desired amount of english. Do NOT change your aim.
The benefit is that back-hand english compensates for squirt.
Troy

I'm surprised how little response has come in on this thread. Maybe this is why there are so many drag out arguments that always occur when the Predator issue always comes up. Maybe not enough individuals know how to do it or use it at all. Predator shafts really haven't been around for a very long time when you consider how long the game has been played. Not even 1 decade. How in the hell do you think all of those top players set those records that still stand and could shoot lights out and hang with the best of today's breed? In my opinion, the top 4-5 male players today such as Efren, Bustamante, Earl, Johnny, and I'll throw in Souquet DO USE backhand extensively since they DO NOT use Predator or Meucci shafts. You can tell by the way they set up to the ball. Their tips are on the cloth, off to the side, and they're pivoting or swooping the CB from all over the place at different angles.

Troy is correct...it compensates for squirt. He described a way of doing it, I described another way of doing it, and there's still yet another way of doing it by swooping your back-hand right in the middle of your final stroke before hitting the CB. However, you will NOT have much success with backhand when using a Predator. It offsets your backhand offset and you'll play like crap. The question then becomes, why do that at all instead of using high tech shafts. My reason is because the high tech shafts STILL have deflection that has to be compensated for and you can't use backhand. For me backhand is much more deadly than a game improvement shaft alone, and I like the feel/hit/weight/balance of other normal well made shafts over the hollowed out light dingy feel.

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

I seldom used backhand english in 8-ball and 9-ball, but now that I'm playing/practicing one pocket, I use backhand english very, very, very often... I like it ! .... I like it ! I'm playing with a cue with a laminated shaft (26 strips)

 

[drivermaker]

I'm playing with a cue with a laminated shaft (26 strips)

So...Willee, Jimbo, or Arnot came out with a 26 lam shaft?

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

Thread: Back hand english
Originally Posted by Smorgass Bored
I'm playing with a cue with a laminated shaft (26 strips)

So...Willee, Jimbo, or Arnot came out with a 26 lam shaft?
drivermaker


If you're going to try to troll me you'll need fresh bait, that stinky old bait simply won't work.
.. Doug

 

[Joseph Cues]

Back-hand english has been discussed numerous times both here and on the CCB.
Aim center ball as usual, then move your BACK HAND (the hand providing the stroke) left or right pivoting around the bridge to obtain the desired amount of english. Do NOT change your aim.
The benefit is that back-hand english compensates for squirt.

Troy

It's easier for me to just move my rear to the opposite direction of the english.
Freeze on that and shoot.

 

[gwvavases]

This whole back-hand english discussion, both here and elsewhere, continues to baffle me. I didn't shoot pool for almost 30 years (since I was about 19). Played pretty good way back then. Just took up the game again about 9 months ago. When I first read about back-hand english in a pool mag several months ago, I couldn't figure out what the author was talking about. He made it sound kind of "special". Surely he must have been describing something different than what I was doing. Nope. I use back-hand english, and it's the only way I know.

In fact, I can't understand any other way. What IS the other way? Do people normally set their bridge hand in place only after deciding what english they're going to apply to a cue ball? Are there really people who move their bridge hand if they decide, after getting down on a shot, to use left rather than right english? I kinda doubt it. I bet more people are using back-hand english than know it.

 

[Joseph Cues]

This whole back-hand english discussion, both here and elsewhere, continues to baffle me. I didn't shoot pool for almost 30 years (since I was about 19). Played pretty good way back then. Just took up the game again about 9 months ago. When I first read about back-hand english in a pool mag several months ago, I couldn't figure out what the author was talking about. He made it sound kind of "special". Surely he must have been describing something different than what I was doing. Nope. I use back-hand english, and it's the only way I know.

In fact, I can't understand any other way. What IS the other way? Do people normally set their bridge hand in place only after deciding what english they're going to apply to a cue ball? Are there really people who move their bridge hand if they decide, after getting down on a shot, to use left rather than right english? I kinda doubt it. I bet more people are using back-hand english than know it.

The other way is parallel english ( which do not work most of the time imo).
The shaft is parallel to the center line.

 

[Bob Jewett]

.
In fact, I can't understand any other way. What IS the other way?...

One way, which is the way I use, is to come down with the stick in the final postition for the spin I'm planning to use. I find this easier to do with a low-squirt stick.

Another way, for sticks that don't have the right amount of squirt to make backhand english work, is to get english partly by backhand english and partly by moving the bridge hand after aiming without english.

What many people don't realize -- at least consciously -- is that the stick must have the right amount of squirt for backhand english to work. The change of angle due to the movement to the side of the backhand must match the squirt, swerve and throw on the shot. Many people who use backhand english make any additional correction subconsciously. For example on a slow shot with draw and english, there will be a lot of swerve. To get backhand english to work alone for this kind of shot, a longer bridge than normal is needed. I think that those players who aren't aware of these details learn subconsciously either to change their bridge length or to aim differently at the start.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

In my opinion, the top 4-5 male players today such as Efren, Bustamante, Earl, Johnny, and I'll throw in Souquet DO USE backhand extensively since they DO NOT use Predator or Meucci shafts.

Busti DOES use a predator shaft.

SS

 

[Joseph Cues]

In my opinion, the top 4-5 male players today such as Efren, Bustamante, Earl, Johnny, and I'll throw in Souquet DO USE backhand extensively since they DO NOT use Predator or Meucci shafts.

Busti DOES use a predator shaft.

SS

Break cue or playing cue?
Busti plays with an Edwin Reyes made shaft with Ivor-X ferrule.

 

[Bluewolf]

I seldom used backhand english in 8-ball and 9-ball, but now that I'm playing/practicing one pocket, I use backhand english very, very, very often... I like it ! .... I like it ! I'm playing with a cue with a laminated shaft (26 strips)

Why is this more useful in OP

Laura

 

[LAMas]

Does the force (soft vs. power) of the hit affect back hand english? Does distance (between the Q ball and O Ball) affect back hand english?

 

[gwvavases]

The other way is parallel english ( which do not work most of the time imo).
The shaft is parallel to the center line.

I think I actually use both methods, sometimes simultaneously, sometimes not, depending on the shot. I know that I never (usually don't) move my bridge hand after getting down on a shot. I do change the shape of my bridge hand quite often (open/closed bridge, elevated or flatter to the table), usually without conscious thought, which suggests the use of parallel english, but I think it's done simultaneously with application of various types of english that I'm applying with my back hand.

I think people use back-hand english more than they think. In fact, I think the mechanics of aiming would apply back-hand english. It doesn't seem plausible that one can place one's bridge hand down on a table at the precise spot for parallel aiming. The minute aiming adjustments one makes during their practice strokes are done with the back hand, aren't they? Unless minute readjustment of the bridge hand takes place at the same time, the cue is going to pivot around the bridge. No?

Actually...I think I gotta get away from this thread. This kind of thinking can drive you nuts!

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Break cue or playing cue?
Busti plays with an Edwin Reyes made shaft with Ivor-X ferrule.

Busti has been playing with a predator shaft for a few years now.

Although he recently started using another cue. If it happens to be one by E.Reyes, then i would assume he's using that ER240. Although....E.R. has said that Busti uses his shaft....he hasn't mentioned him using one of his sticks.

If he IS using his shaft, this might account for why he's basically done nothing in the San Miguel tour.
He should go back to what he had success with.

BUT....all you have to do to find out, is look at the ferrule length.
If it's shorter...it's a predator.

SS

 

[Bob Jewett]

Does the force (soft vs. power) of the hit affect back hand english? Does distance (between the Q ball and O Ball) affect back hand english?

It's important to understand the three major things that side spin causes on a shot: squirt, swerve, and throw. Backhand english only corrects for squirt, and is in the same direction -- as far as the cut is concerned -- as swerve and throw. A soft shot with side spin draw may not need any correction. There is less swerve on power shots. There is more throw on softer shots.

Whatever compensation you use for aiming on side spin shots must match those three things for each particular shot you have to use. I think all players do most of the compensation subconsciously. If you force yourself to use backhand english, remember the various effects.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Here's what Busta is using!

Busti has been playing with a predator shaft for a few years now.

Although he recently started using another cue. If it happens to be one by E.Reyes, then i would assume he's using that ER240. Although....E.R. has said that Busti uses his shaft....he hasn't mentioned him using one of his sticks.

If he IS using his shaft, this might account for why he's basically done nothing in the San Miguel tour.
He should go back to what he had success with.

BUT....all you have to do to find out, is look at the ferrule length.
If it's shorter...it's a predator.

SS

Attached pics are Busta and Efren at last week's Japan Cup.

Busta's ferrule looks long.

Who know's what Efren is using here? What is the black ferrule made out of?

Pics coutesy of http://www.ibcjapancup.com/photo-3.html

Check also -1, -2 and -4 estensions for more pics.

 

[LAMas]

It's important to understand the three major things that side spin causes on a shot: squirt, swerve, and throw. Backhand english only corrects for squirt, and is in the same direction -- as far as the cut is concerned -- as swerve and throw. A soft shot with side spin draw may not need any correction. There is less swerve on power shots. There is more throw on softer shots.

<<<Words and what they mean to me.
<<<Swerve is what the CB does as it spins (with english) and grabs the cloth in a large arc like a curve ball - I presume.

<<<Throw is the result of the spinning CB making contact with the OB and altering it's expected path if shot with no english - I presume.

<<<There is less swerve on a power shot because of the sliding rather than rolling and grabbing of the CB to the cloth - I presume.

Whatever compensation you use for aiming on side spin shots must match those three things for each particular shot you have to use. I think all players do most of the compensation subconsciously. If you force yourself to use backhand english, remember the various effects.

<<<Well said - there isn't an easy answer like "just" backhand english.