Back stroke pause?Calling Blckjck and Bob Jewitt.

mnorwood

Moon
Silver Member
I played snooker tonight and my snooker tutor suggested that I put a pause in my backstroke for the purpose of better timing on my draw technique.

Many pool players do not use a back pause. What are the advantages of a no back pause technique if any?

Very few pool players do this. The only one I can think of is allison fisher, a snooker player.

I would like to hear from blackjack and bob jewett on this issue.
 
mnorwood said:
I played snooker tonight and my snooker tutor suggested that I put a pause in my backstroke for the purpose of better timing on my draw technique.

Many pool players do not use a back pause. What are the advantages of a no back pause technique if any?

Very few pool players do this. The only one I can think of is allison fisher, a snooker player.

I would like to hear from blackjack and bob jewett on this issue.
First! ;)
 
Buddy Hall used to do it. I think one reason to do it is that you let your brain know exactly when to start your final stroke. When Steve Davis started to use this "everybody in the snooker scene" followed.
 
Btw I tried it for a year or so, but I prefer pausing slightly (very) before pulling back.
 
One of the things that came out from my recent classes with Randy G. (SPF) was the pause allows your muscles (BICEPS/TRICEPS) to transition instead of work against each other during the stroke. This makes the stroke more efficient as well.
 
mooseman said:
One of the things that came out from my recent classes with Randy G. (SPF) was the pause allows your muscles (BICEPS/TRICEPS) to transition instead of work against each other during the stroke. This makes the stroke more efficient as well.

Scott Lee told me something similar a few weeks ago. Now that I've had a couple weeks to practice and the SPF routine is starting to feel very natural to me, I find that I'm taking longer pauses in my backswing.
 
mnorwood said:
I played snooker tonight and my snooker tutor suggested that I put a pause in my backstroke for the purpose of better timing on my draw technique.

Many pool players do not use a back pause. What are the advantages of a no back pause technique if any?

Very few pool players do this. The only one I can think of is allison fisher, a snooker player.

I would like to hear from blackjack and bob jewett on this issue.

I've never seen Efren do it.

:p
 
mnorwood said:
I played snooker tonight and my snooker tutor suggested that I put a pause in my backstroke for the purpose of better timing on my draw technique.

Many pool players do not use a back pause. What are the advantages of a no back pause technique if any?

Very few pool players do this. The only one I can think of is allison fisher, a snooker player.

I would like to hear from blackjack and bob jewett on this issue.

..........................
 

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The Great BUDDY HALL has a long pause.....

Alex has a slight pause.


I tried a long pause for many years, seemed to make me a more consistent player without a high gear.......WARNING: It's very hard to incorporate in your game!!


Drake
 
mnorwood said:
I played snooker tonight and my snooker tutor suggested that I put a pause in my backstroke for the purpose of better timing on my draw technique.

Many pool players do not use a back pause. What are the advantages of a no back pause technique if any?

Very few pool players do this. The only one I can think of is allison fisher, a snooker player.

I would like to hear from blackjack and bob jewett on this issue.



mnorwood: In Pool School we define a "pause" as the smooth transition of the backwards to forwards movement of your arm. How much time is spent on this non-movement is up to the individual. The important thing is that the transition is smooth and sub-councious........SPF=randyg

PS: It's only a can of worms for certain people. Everyone has to make this transition.
 
Pauses

bring you back to the age old argument of 'logic' vs. 'natural' players. Pausing at the back of the stroke is purely logic oriented. I have a slight pause at the beginning of my hit stroke, but the hit stroke itself is fluid

Part of it is how you think about it.

I get a hit in baseball, I can get to 1st base, when I get to 1st base, I determine if I can get to 2nd. If I can get to 2nd base, I run to it.

I get a hit in baseball, it's a double, I going to 2nd by way of 1st base first.

The 1st example demonstrates the pause at the back of the hit stroke. The last example is one fluid motion for the hit stroke.

People that sense or feel speed control do not pause at the back of their stroke. People that calculate speed control have a tendency to pause at the back of their stroke. I have found that women players, much more so than men, have a tendency to pause at the back of the hit stroke. It also indicates a 'tentativeness' on the part of the player, especially when they are learning, but will become ingrained into their playing.

I suggest you do what is comfortable for you to do.
 
randyg said:
mnorwood: In Pool School we define a "pause" as the smooth transition of the backwards to forwards movement of your arm. How much time is spent on this non-movement is up to the individual. The important thing is that the transition is smooth and sub-councious........SPF=randyg

PS: It's only a can of worms for certain people. Everyone has to make this transition.

I wouldn't even say that it is a can of worms. I teach players differently than the BCA - however I also teach some the same things. Myself, I try to find the player's natural movements and balance points and I build everything around that. If a pause in the back swing would alter their thinking or interfere with their natural rhythm, I won't even go there. If it would help their game - I won't hesitate to incorporate that into their PSR.

I have seen many players that benefit from the SPF method - I've see people that it doesn't work for. For that reason, I don't think it's for everybody, but I could be wrong about that -(lol and not intentionally trying to kill Randy's last hair follicle). My teaching methods are much different, but just as effective - I just follow a different philosophy than other instructors.

Believe it or not, we agree on more than we don't agree on, and I am currently in the process of submitting a new curriculum for the mental game to you Randy, for inclusion into your class curriculum - complete with a textbook - and instructor's guide. I will get with you in a few weeks to send you the final drafts - this is my gift to Cue-U for all that they do for instructors and players all over the world.

Ask anybody that has taken classes from me after they have seen Randyg or Scott Lee, and they will tell you that I will not interfere with or dispute anything that they were taught by ANY BCA certified instructor. I can and will add strength to that knowledge and skill set that they learned from that instruction. Scott and Randy are my friends and colleagues - we don't agree on every subject - we don't have to as long we have the player's best interest at the forefront. We all do agree that proper instruction from qualified individuals is a necessity to advancing your skills as a player - and that proper, professional instruction is the best way to go. My decision not to pursue BCA certification has nothing to do with disagreeing with their teaching methods, and everything to do with having the freedom to do my own thing my own way. Nothing more, nothing less.

Most of what I teach is in the way of strategy, the mental game, and advanced stroking techniques and cue ball control. Many of the stroking and cue ball control techniques that I teach - I learned them from players in the Philippines. These are basically the techniques that you see Francisco and Efren using - to include the aiming systems everybody debates on this forum every chance they get.

:p
 
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One reason a pause may work for you is that from this position, you have to accelerate through the ball because you're starting from a stop. Acceleration through the cue ball is needed an all shots, but really needed for draw. I do suggest this technique to people who constantly decelerate into the cue ball so they can see and feel the difference. Once they "get it" I suggest they use whatever technique they feel the most comfortable with. However, I suggest they should go back to the pause every once in a while regardless as a stroke check.

I use it but it varies how much and how long the pause depending on how in stroke I am. I'm so out of stroke now I'm still waiting to pull the trigger :).

Hope this helps a little.

Dave
 
I few years back I started to use a pause on the backstroke. It really added to the "feel" of the shot. I could tell if it "on" or not and allow me to get off the shot and adjust.
 
David...Absolutely it is no can of worms...except for (as Randyg mentioned) a VERY small group of people.

All players can benefit from learning the SPF method of setup and delivery of the cuestick. What we do is teach someone how to use their own natural timing. Even among those students who adapt to the SPF process initially, some will generally refine it into something that works best for them.

Make that a gift to Cue Tech :D (Cue U is in Rockford, IL)...but thank you, and we look forward to seeing what you have! All good instructors are constantly evaluating and learning new and better ways to communicate with our students.

We are absolutely on the same page with just about everything we teach! We just use a little bit different style and language! It is an enormous advantage to shortcut the learning process by seeking out qualified instruction!:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Blackjack said:
I wouldn't even say that it is a can of worms.

I have seen many players that benefit from the SPF method - I've see people that it doesn't work for. For that reason, I don't think it's for everybody, but I could be wrong about that -(lol and not intentionally trying to kill Randy's last hair follicle). My teaching methods are much different, but just as effective - I just follow a different philosophy than other instructors.

this is my gift to Cue-U for all that they do for instructors and players all over the world.

Ask anybody that has taken classes from me after they have seen Randyg or Scott Lee, and they will tell you that I will not interfere with or dispute anything that they were taught by ANY BCA certified instructor. I can and will add strength to that knowledge and skill set that they learned from that instruction. Scott and Randy are my friends and colleagues - we don't agree on every subject - we don't have to as long we have the player's best interest at the forefront. We all do agree that proper instruction from qualified individuals is a necessity to advancing your skills as a player - and that proper, professional instruction is the best way to go. My decision not to pursue BCA certification has nothing to do with disagreeing with their teaching methods, and everything to do with having the freedom to do my own thing my own way. Nothing more, nothing less.

:p
 
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mnorwood said:
I played snooker tonight and my snooker tutor suggested that I put a pause in my backstroke for the purpose of better timing on my draw technique.

Many pool players do not use a back pause. What are the advantages of a no back pause technique if any?

Very few pool players do this. The only one I can think of is allison fisher, a snooker player.

I would like to hear from blackjack and bob jewett on this issue.
There are a lot more knowledgeable posters than myself on this forum and I certainly do not have their breadth of experience, their knowledge or skills and I enjoy reading and learning from their posts.
I am a student of the game and write a lot of white papers to myself to aid the learning process. Following is the white paper I put together on this topic in 2002 or 2003, that perhaps some will find of interest.

Once again blending some golf instruction (Holographic Golf by Larry Miller) with pool I might offer the following:

Larry describes the three static positions of the golf swing as 1. the address (posture, stance and alignment),2 the top of the swing (at the point of trasition from backswing to forward swing and 3 the balanced finish.

In pool the three static positions might be, 1 the set at the cue ball before the final stroke, 2 the transition from backswing to forward stroke and 3 the freeze on the follow through at the end of the stroke.

It appears to me that the pause (or set) at the cue ball before executing the final stroke is very important. Certainly, there are some excellent players who do not have a perceptible set at the cue ball from practice strokes to final strokes. Having said that, it apears to me that this set in static position one allows the player to learn to "lock down the shot" and to learn to feel and experience the sensations required to sense the shot is on before they loose the arrow.

Certainly open to debate but the second static position would be the transition from backswing to forward stroke. For some, as elsewhere mentioned, Buddy Hall, Allison Fisher, etc. there is a perceptible pause at static position two. I might suggest you flip a quarter in the air several times and observe the transition from the top of the flip at the point where gravity takes over and the quarter begins to return to earth. I may be wrong, as I often am, but it appears to me that it is the smoothness of this transition that is critical to delivering a proper stroke. For some this will involve a perceptible pause, while for others it will not. However, the transition must be as silky smooth as the transition described above observing the quarter.

The third static position is the freeze on the follow through. The mantra slow back, accelerate through to a fluid finish might apply here. Sometimes this will be described as staying down on the shot. Again it appears that having a smooth stroke that flows to static position number three is a very critical objective.

Having said all of that, the point of Larry Millers book is that if the golfer learns to be in the proper position at the three static positions of the golf swing then the swing can't help but naturally flow through the ball down the target line correctly.

Sorry so long but I found the concepts in Larry Miller's book very practical.
 
I had a rather good player tell me a few months back to create a pause in my backswing on the break. I have tried this and while it seems to have a little more power (not alot more) with about the same cue control. After about 2 or 3 months I am still doing it because I respect the mans game and his help, but it still doesn't feel right. Should I just work on it or give it more time?
 
mnorwood said:
I played snooker tonight and my snooker tutor suggested that I put a pause in my backstroke for the purpose of better timing on my draw technique.

Many pool players do not use a back pause. What are the advantages of a no back pause technique if any?

Very few pool players do this. The only one I can think of is allison fisher, a snooker player.

I would like to hear from blackjack and bob jewett on this issue.
Just to emphasize the merit of the search function: what exactly do you mean by "pause"? popcorn.gif

In particular, here is a 139 post thread (10 pages) on this topic (and ancillary issues to boot). There are a number of other threads on "pausing" on the forum...

-td
 
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Scott Lee said:
Gee thanks Tom...you just HAD to bring up that old dead horse again! LOL :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Yeah, I do that sometimes :) lol

Seriously, with all the valuable threads that already exist on the forum - and all the knowledge that has been poured into them, I think it's important to emphasize the importance of searching. A lot of times, the long-time posters will not "re-contribute" to a thread since they have posted the "answer" a number of times before. I think this might be one of those threads. doh!

-td

Can we start a thread about deflection next (tip, cueball or otherwise)? Or what about back hand english? Oh, maybe elbow dropping and then elevation on draw shots? ;)
 
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