Back stroke pause?Calling Blckjck and Bob Jewitt.

Blackjack said:
I wouldn't even say that it is a can of worms. I teach players differently than the BCA - however I also teach some the same things. Myself, I try to find the player's natural movements and balance points and I build everything around that. If a pause in the back swing would alter their thinking or interfere with their natural rhythm, I won't even go there. If it would help their game - I won't hesitate to incorporate that into their PSR.

I have seen many players that benefit from the SPF method - I've see people that it doesn't work for. For that reason, I don't think it's for everybody, but I could be wrong about that -(lol and not intentionally trying to kill Randy's last hair follicle). My teaching methods are much different, but just as effective - I just follow a different philosophy than other instructors.

Believe it or not, we agree on more than we don't agree on, and I am currently in the process of submitting a new curriculum for the mental game to you Randy, for inclusion into your class curriculum - complete with a textbook - and instructor's guide. I will get with you in a few weeks to send you the final drafts - this is my gift to Cue-U for all that they do for instructors and players all over the world.

Ask anybody that has taken classes from me after they have seen Randyg or Scott Lee, and they will tell you that I will not interfere with or dispute anything that they were taught by ANY BCA certified instructor. I can and will add strength to that knowledge and skill set that they learned from that instruction. Scott and Randy are my friends and colleagues - we don't agree on every subject - we don't have to as long we have the player's best interest at the forefront. We all do agree that proper instruction from qualified individuals is a necessity to advancing your skills as a player - and that proper, professional instruction is the best way to go. My decision not to pursue BCA certification has nothing to do with disagreeing with their teaching methods, and everything to do with having the freedom to do my own thing my own way. Nothing more, nothing less.

Most of what I teach is in the way of strategy, the mental game, and advanced stroking techniques and cue ball control. Many of the stroking and cue ball control techniques that I teach - I learned them from players in the Philippines. These are basically the techniques that you see Francisco and Efren using - to include the aiming systems everybody debates on this forum every chance they get.

:p
Blackjack, please don't even begin to give advise on Snooker. You are a good POOL instructor not Snooker. Until you have a decent high break you really neeed to keep your opinions to yourself. If you want to tell me or anyone else about pool, I am willing to listen but as a famous book once said, "man know thy self" Give the guy a chance to learn the right way not your snooker/pool teachings as that thought has never worked.
 
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Bob Jewett said:
First I'd like to know what your instructor means by "pause." As you may have noticed, different people have different interpretations of the word. One definition is to have zero acceleration and zero motion of the cue stick during a time longer than zero seconds. That happens to be the definition I like. For others, the definition is like how Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart defined hard-core pornography: "I know it when I see it."
My teacher tells me that a pause means an absence of motion - the cue is motionless.
 
I was told the same thing about the pause in snooker not in pool byt I am sure it converts over. The pause did me the world of good. I have no idea what the reason is, more focus on the shot, calming yourself down etc. all I know is that it works, it may be phycological,
 
mnorwood said:
My teacher tells me that a pause means an absence of motion - the cue is motionless.
Ah, but that doesn't actually answer the question. As others have pointed out (more or less) in this thread and in many before, any pendulum is motionless at the ends of its swing. A ball thrown straight up is motionless at the top of its climb. Wiley Coyote is motionless hanging over the 1000-foot canyon until he realizes that he is over the canyon.

Allison Fisher's stroke has something in it besides just reversing direction. Is it that something else that your teacher wants you to try? I think it is something that Semih Sayginer does not have in his stroke: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDMX7RBhWaM
 
bfdlad said:
Blackjack, please don't even begin to give advise on Snooker. You are a good POOL instructor not Snooker. Until you have a decent high break you really neeed to keep your opinions to yourself. If you want to tell me or anyone else about pool, I am willing to listen but as a famous book once said, "man know thy self" Give the guy a chance to learn the right way not your snooker/pool teachings as that thought has never worked.

So you are saying that because I am a pool player, I am unable to teach anybody anything about the mechanics in snooker? lol

I know more than you think I do.

There is a big difference between pool and snooker, we agree on that. Most of what I know about snooker comes from analyzing the fundamentals of great players such as Ray Reardon, Cliff Thorburn, Alex Higgins, and Jimmy White. I know enough to show proper fundamentals of both games, but I am NOT a snooker expert, nor have I ever claimed to be.

I am an expert at teaching the game of POOL - a game that is currently being invaded by scores of snooker players that have obviously grown bored with the game of snooker. They have gravitated over to pool - mainly Allison and Karen - who are forced to play pool because the money-well in snooker went dry. Their participation has integrated into the stance, and stroke styles of today's players. The mechanics work beautifully in pool, but i still can't hear anything when they break the balls.

:p

I find it appalling that snooker players such as Quinten Hann and his legions of ass huggers believe that pool is so easy compared to snooker - each game has characteristics that make them equally challenging - but I guess because we can't find a snooker player that is willing to hop on a plane to come over here and show us how easy it is, I guess we'll just keep generating these posts on azbilliards, right?
:rolleyes:
 
randyg said:
mnorwood: In Pool School we define a "pause" as the smooth transition of the backwards to forwards movement of your arm. How much time is spent on this non-movement is up to the individual. The important thing is that the transition is smooth and sub-councious........SPF=randyg


I've worked with my instructor quite a bit on the pause on the backstroke. I do fine with this when I am practicing drills and consciously thinking about the pause on the backstroke. However, it seems like all too often I forget about the pause and shoot too quickly.

How can I permanently instill this pause on the backstroke into my shot routine?
 
PoolSharkAllen said:
I've worked with my instructor quite a bit on the pause on the backstroke. I do fine with this when I am practicing drills and consciously thinking about the pause on the backstroke. However, it seems like all too often I forget about the pause and shoot too quickly.

How can I permanently instill this pause on the backstroke into my shot routine?

The way we practice is the way we will play. The longer you work on it during your practice sessions, the more natural it will become, and it will work it's way into your playing without you even realizing it.
Steve
 
pooltchr said:
The way we practice is the way we will play. The longer you work on it during your practice sessions, the more natural it will become, and it will work it's way into your playing without you even realizing it.
Steve

I've been practicing this pause on the backstroke for a year now...and it's still not a permanent part of my subconscious shot routine.
 
Blackjack said:
So you are saying that because I am a pool player, I am unable to teach anybody anything about the mechanics in snooker? lol

I know more than you think I do.

There is a big difference between pool and snooker, we agree on that. Most of what I know about snooker comes from analyzing the fundamentals of great players such as Ray Reardon, Cliff Thorburn, Alex Higgins, and Jimmy White. I know enough to show proper fundamentals of both games, but I am NOT a snooker expert, nor have I ever claimed to be.

I am an expert at teaching the game of POOL - a game that is currently being invaded by scores of snooker players that have obviously grown bored with the game of snooker. They have gravitated over to pool - mainly Allison and Karen - who are forced to play pool because the money-well in snooker went dry. Their participation has integrated into the stance, and stroke styles of today's players. The mechanics work beautifully in pool, but i still can't hear anything when they break the balls.

:p

I find it appalling that snooker players such as Quinten Hann and his legions of ass huggers believe that pool is so easy compared to snooker - each game has characteristics that make them equally challenging - but I guess because we can't find a snooker player that is willing to hop on a plane to come over here and show us how easy it is, I guess we'll just keep generating these posts on azbilliards, right?
:rolleyes:
Well do you think a good pool player can beat a good snooker player? At snooker? This is just like the Hann thing, I think that I could beat you at snooker and at pool. And I think that oes for the majority of Snooker players. It is just a skill level. IF you doubt me I can put up several snooker names that will beat the pool players. I can start off the top of my head with Steve Davis V's Anyone, Tont Drago V's Anyone. Me V's you the teaching god. I could go on. All I am saying is that this thread began with advise on the pause (a snooker technic)
 
bfdlad said:
Well do you think a good pool player can beat a good snooker player? At snooker? This is just like the Hann thing, I think that I could beat you at snooker and at pool. And I think that oes for the majority of Snooker players. It is just a skill level. IF you doubt me I can put up several snooker names that will beat the pool players. I can start off the top of my head with Steve Davis V's Anyone, Tont Drago V's Anyone. Me V's you the teaching god. I could go on. All I am saying is that this thread began with advise on the pause (a snooker technic)

Tont Drago? Who the hell is that? Tony's uncle?

:rolleyes:

Teaching god? Thanks for noticing.

What are you bored?

FWIW, the pause is not unique to snooker - if you took the time to read the rest of this thread you would have learned that.

As far as your noise about snooker vs pool - this has been discussed over and over in other threads, its getting old and I am not sure why you are dragging it into this thread. Nobody can agree on what games should be played to settle this issue so that it can be put to rest.

As far as you and I playing - I won't back down from you or any player - whether or not you have snooker experience or not.
 
It's mnorwood snooker tutor speaking. Yeah it's me!

He was having a hard time playing a screw shot, because his timing was off. The weight and balance of the snooker cue he was playing with was different than his pool cue, so his maximum point of acceleration was not when the cue touched the ball.
There are many reasons why I was coached to have a visible pause between the back motion of the cue and pulling the trigger. It's sighting, breathing and also a right brain issue. It helps a lot of things including control, not only over your stroke but also over what your brain is doing while you're stroking.
 
drsnooker said:
It's mnorwood snooker tutor speaking. Yeah it's me!

He was having a hard time playing a screw shot, because his timing was off. The weight and balance of the snooker cue he was playing with was different than his pool cue, so his maximum point of acceleration was not when the cue touched the ball.
There are many reasons why I was coached to have a visible pause between the back motion of the cue and pulling the trigger. It's sighting, breathing and also a right brain issue. It helps a lot of things including control, not only over your stroke but also over what your brain is doing while you're stroking.
Why is he resisting making this change?
 
Blackjack said:
So you are saying that because I am a pool player, I am unable to teach anybody anything about the mechanics in snooker? lol

I know more than you think I do.

There is a big difference between pool and snooker, we agree on that. Most of what I know about snooker comes from analyzing the fundamentals of great players such as Ray Reardon, Cliff Thorburn, Alex Higgins, and Jimmy White. I know enough to show proper fundamentals of both games, but I am NOT a snooker expert, nor have I ever claimed to be.

I am an expert at teaching the game of POOL - a game that is currently being invaded by scores of snooker players that have obviously grown bored with the game of snooker. They have gravitated over to pool - mainly Allison and Karen - who are forced to play pool because the money-well in snooker went dry. Their participation has integrated into the stance, and stroke styles of today's players. The mechanics work beautifully in pool, but i still can't hear anything when they break the balls.

:p

I find it appalling that snooker players such as Quinten Hann and his legions of ass huggers believe that pool is so easy compared to snooker - each game has characteristics that make them equally challenging - but I guess because we can't find a snooker player that is willing to hop on a plane to come over here and show us how easy it is, I guess we'll just keep generating these posts on azbilliards, right?
:rolleyes:

Blackjack, U should post a UTube vid of URself shooting Pool to silence UR critics. :cool:

Brian
 
APA7 said:
Blackjack, U should post a UTube vid of URself shooting Pool to silence UR critics. :cool:

Brian

Brian,

If I had low self esteem and felt as if I had to prove anything to anybody I would do that.

I'm in Orlando. I'm easy to find. If bfdlad thinks he can beat me - Delta is ready when he is.

FWIW, I think that I should get a band of pool players to go up against bfdlad's snooker players - that's if they show up or can stop trying to manipulate the terms into their favor. I got 2 or 3 players that are up for the challenge. You guys up for it?

You listening, Quinten? Let's stop talking and let's settle all of this on the table.
 
Blackjack said:
Brian,

If I had low self esteem and felt as if I had to prove anything to anybody I would do that.

I'm in Orlando. I'm easy to find. If bfdlad thinks he can beat me - Delta is ready when he is.

FWIW, I think that I should get a band of pool players to go up against bfdlad's snooker players - that's if they show up or can stop trying to manipulate the terms into their favor. I got 2 or 3 players that are up for the challenge. You guys up for it?

You listening, Quinten? Let's stop talking and let's settle all of this on the table.
Blackjack, If I could get Tony Drago, Steve Davis, Quinten Hann and Tony Crosby all together and each played best of 17 Snooker and then we each played a race to 11 in 9 ball or 10 ball, do you really think your guys would come out ahead? I love pool and I love all the players I just think it's a fact that Snooker players have the edge.
 
dr_dave said:
FYI, I have a good summary of various viewpoints on this topic here. It is also covered in my stroke "best practices" document. He's a quote from the document:


Regards,
Dave

On (HSV A.38), I sure wish you had more light where the cue tip touches the cue ball. With my diminished vision I can't see exactly when the cue tip leaves the cue ball. :D

JoeyA (think's all of Dr. Dave's stuff is the nuts!)

P.S. Did I ever say thanks for everything you have done for pool? :)
 
bfdlad said:
Blackjack, If I could get Tony Drago, Steve Davis, Quinten Hann and Tony Crosby all together and each played best of 17 Snooker and then we each played a race to 11 in 9 ball or 10 ball, do you really think your guys would come out ahead? I love pool and I love all the players I just think it's a fact that Snooker players have the edge.

Let's find out.

I'm pretty sure that I can get John Schmidt, Johnny Archer, Corey Deuel, and Alex Pagulayan to make that one extremely interesting.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Your boys will have fun playing 9 ball against those guys. Have them jump the pond.

:D
 
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